Ducati Monster Forum

Good news for Honda, bad news for Jorge & Vale - it sounds like both Yamaha riders have used four of the five allotted engines for 2013:

http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jun/130618ol2.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jun/130618ol2.htm)

Once an engine is "used" (assuming "used" does not equal "grenaded") is it unavailable for the rest of the season, or could the Yamaha garage be somehow rotating through their allotment, with an engine used once available for later races? Doesn't make sense to me, though, since I thought that unused engines were left unsealed so that improved parts could be added through the season, or have I got that all wrong?

And what if they need more than six?

EDIT: Sounds like Cal's in the same boat.

I think that's why they both have one unallocated. It is unsealed and can be updated until it is put into service and sealed. I think they can continue to use an engine until they break the seal regardless how many they've put into service.

I don't know if they're 'rotating', using some engines for testing/free practice and others for races. Jorge did lose one engine after a crash earlier in the season.

i haven't paid close attention this year, but in previous seasons, engines have indeed neen rotated session-to-session-to-race to manage wear.

Correct. They can rotate their sealed engines in and out of service but can't "unseal" them for any reason.

The only thing this means is that Yamaha has more engines in rotation and most likely with less use on each individual engine that Honda currently does on theirs.

Rossi and Lorenzo have each used 4 engines, meaning that the engine has left pit lane while in the bike.
Of those 4, they have each had one withdrawn from service.
Those two engines cannot be used again.
They each have one un-used engine.
So, they each have 4 engines with which to finish the season.
Also, Rossi has one engine that has never been used in a race, and has not been used in qualifying since round 3.
One may assume it's a bit below par.

Crutchlow has used 4, and AFAIK none withdrawn.
So he still has 5 engines for the season.

Smith has only used 3 engines, and none withdrawn.

They are indeed rotating the engines in use, and that rotation will become more frantic.

It may well be the plan to rotate the engines, but with both factory boys having lost one engine each, it's not a good situation.
The season is only 1/3 gone.

It also compromises their ability to do engine updates.
If they use the 5th engine, they cannot introduce an updated engine without suffering a race start from pit lane.

That might not be so bad, as long as Bautista isn't starting from in there with them... ;D

Do not underestimate Bautista.

He can skittle from quite a ways back.

http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jun/130621cd4.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jun/130621cd4.htm)

Here's what I don't get about that strategy & Yamaha's reassurance that all is well - rotating the motors like that means that four of the five (Edit: make that three out of the four remaining for Jorge & Vale) of them are buttoned up for good and can't be improved. That might not be as big a deal for Honda or Ducati, but the Yamaha is (slightly) down on power. While all their rivals are free to throw resources at catching up with Yam's superior handling (though Rossi is having a tough time with the new tire carcass finding the front end feel he remembers from years back), while they're pretty much stuck with the motors they started the season with.

Kind of a tangent to Cal's description of the Yamaha vs. Honda design choices: http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2013/06/21/honda_vs_yamaha_cal_crutchlow_helps_expl.html (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2013/06/21/honda_vs_yamaha_cal_crutchlow_helps_expl.html)

They can swear up and down that all is well.
I still don't believe it.

And yes, upgrade wise they're screwed.
Even if their seamless gearbox was the best thing since sliced bread, they can't use it.

Kind of a tangent to Cal's description of the Yamaha vs. Honda design choices: http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2013/06/21/honda_vs_yamaha_cal_crutchlow_helps_expl.html (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2013/06/21/honda_vs_yamaha_cal_crutchlow_helps_expl.html)


Perhaps the spec tire has outlived its purpose/usefulness (not sure if I'm reading this article correctly) when it constrains a mfg from exploiting particular strengths of its design philosophy/approach.

Also, I wonder if a seamless gearbox would make much of a difference for the old guys, like Rossi, who came up before electronics and other 'automatic transmission' stuff....

The spec tire fails at it's purported objective of cost limitation and (unintentionally, in my opinion) goes a long way toward picking winners and losers among the different manufacturers.

I say unintentionally, because it's an open secret that DORNA desperately wants Rossi back on the podium, if not on the top step - but changes in the spec Bridgestone front have made it harder for him to get back to where he left off on the Yamaha. Money quote in http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jun/130625rydernotes.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Jun/130625rydernotes.htm): Rossi's "early pronouncements about the new [qualifying] format were a distraction from the real issue, pushing hard with the new-generation front tyre (the one that only Casey and Dani didn't want, remember); last time Vale was on a Yam he had the old, stiff carcass."

It looks like you've got a front-running rider on a front-running bike, being held back by the spec tire. How is that good for racing?

Colin Edwards always used to say that Vale's tires were hard as rocks back in the one off special days.  His strengths were always being the best braker deep into corners and carrying a lot of corner speed.  Its unfortunate, but not a lot you can do about the spec tire.