I got the bike dyno tuned at DucShop and had he cylinder mapped. It's running a lot better but seems a bit choppy while under 5K when cruising with the throttle in one spot a bit of time. What I'm wondering is if I'm just being hypersensitive and this is normal. Otherwise maybe something might need doing. Mark suggested that the cams may need to be degrees at the next valve adjustments.
Thought on this from y'all would be good.
what did they do to tune it?
They mapped the fuel air on a dyno. I told him about the choppyness in the 4K range and he said he paid close attention to that range. But it's still there.
mapped it how? pc3. bazzaz, modified ecu file?
PC3 and mapped each cylinder.
Sounds to me like they mapped it for power or optimum A/F ratio and not driveability.
I'm going to swing by there and grab a set of NGK plugs to see if that makes a difference.
Quote from: ducpainter on July 13, 2013, 06:49:39 AM
Sounds to me like they mapped it for power or optimum A/F ratio and not driveability.
it's the same thing. missing is quite a long way from either.
std ecu or dp? what other mods to bike? has it ever had the tps, throttle bodies and idle mixture set properly?
can you post the pc3 map?
Quote from: brad black on July 13, 2013, 03:22:43 PM
std ecu or dp? what other mods to bike? has it ever had the tps, throttle bodies and idle mixture set properly?
can you post the pc3 map?
Stock ECU and the throttle bodies are synced. This is using a QX Ex-Box exhaust (should have said that earlier). it's essentially a 2 into 1 and that may be what's doing it. I'll try to find my print out and post it.
Quote from: brad black on July 13, 2013, 03:21:12 PM
it's the same thing. missing is quite a long way from either.
He said choppy...
I don't read that as 'missing'.
Quote from: ducpainter on July 13, 2013, 05:04:58 PM
He said choppy...
I don't read that as 'missing'.
That's just the way I could think of describing it. It just seems to jerk if I cruise down the the road in the 4K range. As soon as I hit the throttle it doesn't bog or anything, just snaps into awesome.
I was just talking with a friend about it and he was wondering if it may be what to expect from the QD Ex-Box. Anyone have any experience with it.
I don't recall having much to do with non dp ecu s4r fitted with exhausts, but this is not the first I've heard of with cruise issues that a pc3 doesn't fix. none of which I have personally touched, so that's why I asked about the set up. which includes setting the mixture for each cylinder using the air bleeds, etc. some people don't do that, it can make a difference.
my first comment is a general one about the pc3. the pc3 throttle break resolution is nothing like the ecu's. there are 9 pc3 throttle breaks, and 20 in the ecu. if the pc3 10% and 20% breaks, for instance, fall over 3 or 4 ecu breaks, the breaks in the middle aren't tested or compensated for by the pc3. so an issue at 15% (via the pc3 reading) throttle isn't tested or corrected by the pc3, and with the ecu resolution, if 10% and 20% are ok as was or require the opposite correction (ie, +, not -), the pc3 mapping can be incorrect to varying degrees at 15%. which means you're back to the quality of the original mapping and how much change to fuelling requirements your mods have made. sometimes you can get really screwed by this. and to the pc3 tuner it's invisible.
but the s4r std and dp fuel and offset fuel maps are pretty stable in these areas. there are a couple of big differences at low throttle, but they're down around 3,000 rpm. above that the changes are pretty minor. the idle is untouched, and there's no idle map in this ecu so the idle trimmer reference is the same.
but there is a lot of variation on the spark map, with the dp ecu having a lot less part throttle advance. maybe this is why they use more fuel. i am actually waiting for a customer to come in so we can try this, but maybe it will generate an issue.
I remember years ago I was playing with a u59 for a m900 and it had the 1.5m file's mapping in it to suit the mods. the 1.5m m900 spark advance mapping has 15 or 20 degrees less advance in an area at low throttle and higher rpm. looks like a trench in a 3d display. across 3 or 4 throttle breaks, and it seems very odd. I like spark advance for fuel economy, so I put it back like the breaks above and below. on the road it had a very, shall we say "choppy" miss when cruising at low throttle and higher rpm. took the advance out, it went away. so I left it as it was. that bike had mufflers, open airbox and cam timing done, so was quite different to std in that sense.
possibly this is an issue here. it'd be interesting to try pulling back the advance in the rpm and throttle ranges you're experiencing the issue in to see if it goes away.
The problem with most dyno tuners and PC3 is that they dont pay attention to the gear shift transitions and off idle throttle fuelling up to 2500 rpm these areas need careful additions of extra 1-2% fuel and it takes time which the dyno guys dont have , also they tune for torque and peak power and its counter intuitive to add extra fuel at low throttle openings , but it does make a heap of difference on ducatis , smoother running cleaner gear changes ,constant power .
I have a customer with an s4r running dp header and mufflers and dp ecu with a modified file I made who's spark map is much like a std ecu spark map, but with dp fuelling. no choppiness in the rpm range referenced initially here reported, I haven't ridden it personally. has picked up maybe 20km per tank, which is sort of what you would expect with more adv.
Quote from: brad black on August 13, 2013, 06:36:25 AM
I have a customer with an s4r running dp header and mufflers and dp ecu with a modified file I made who's spark map is much like a std ecu spark map, but with dp fuelling. no choppiness in the rpm range referenced initially here reported, I haven't ridden it personally. has picked up maybe 20km per tank, which is sort of what you would expect with more adv.
My ECU was adjusted by the shop and think they may have mussed something up when they did it. The DucShop is going to drop in a programable ECU with the stock map on it to see if that fixes it. If it does, I'm going to send my ECU to be flashed and put back to stock. Any suggestions on who to send it to if that's the case?
i'm not sure what you mean by "put back to stock". if you have a std ecu in the bike then you have a std ecu in it.
Quote from: ducpainter on July 13, 2013, 06:49:39 AM
Sounds to me like they mapped it for power or optimum A/F ratio and not driveability.
yes i agree.. drivability means tuning all the transitions , low speed and midrange especially between 1500-3500rpm this take a lot of time and most dyno boys wont do it ,,the off throttle fuelling needs 1-2% added as well at the lower end to smooth things out