Ducati Monster Forum

Here's the TL;DR
Want to build a bike from parts.
I'd like opinions and any real information you folks may have on specific motors and chassis' :)

Fulls story, since I type... A Lot :)

So I'm back. Been a lurker for awhile, introduced myself ages back (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=37958.msg671123#msg671123 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=37958.msg671123#msg671123)) when I thought a Monster was in the cards, hung around, participated, ended up with a much heavier vtwin that I didn't like (Sportster), then an I4 that was so vanilla and souless (CBR F4i) I had to go British (98 Daytona T595)... I know VS is far from loved here :p But here's a linky to a build thread on it. http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61760 (http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61760) I really would like to finish it. But after riding the bike for a season it doesn't... inspire me. It's got some problems that I don't really want to pay to fix. Then there's the fact that those triples, while being awesome for street riding, are PIGS on a scale. I was tempted by the new Yamaha FZ-09 being released but... I can't justify buying a new bike. They just cost too damn much off the lot for their actual value. Then there's the fact that I haven't found a bike I liked for more than a few riding seasons and getting a loan on one would put a cramp in my style :p

I still haven't found the bike that makes me totally swoon for more than a few weeks :p But the Monster is the one that pulled me in and it's drawn me back around to it a few years later...

Like the addict, the topic of my first passion is back on my mind. I think want to build one. Frame up. From ebay parts (mainly because the market for used Ducati is fairly poor locally and I can't "save" money to save my life apparently).

The bike I want to build would be dry clutch, air/oil cooled motor, with an SSSA. All the features that brought me to Ducati and the Monster specifically in the first place. From what I can remember with Monsters one of the only bikes that fits the bill would be an S2r1000. But I know some motors fit into other frames... so I could, theoretically toss some dry clutch 900 or 1000 mill into in a 748 frame or something. Which I'm not opposed to. At all. I'm pretty sure I know of a guy that does some very reliable TIG work and I have access to and suck at MIG :p

I don't put a crap load of miles on my bike, so an older one with a lower valve check interval wouldn't make me cry (I can't commute on it (mobile tech, need my tools and cargo space for parts, etc), my gf wont get on the damn thing so we don't roadtrip on it (again cage only :( )).

Any suggestions on a good motor and/or chassis opinions, that would give me light weight (I know the SSSA's are a bit heavier, but it's a concession I must make), big low end torque and planted corner capability? I avoid highways, cagers are nutters, (for example, the trip I have planned for August is a Detroit to Indiana and it'll be solely on state "highways" no interstate), so top end HP/speed isn't really important and the only track nearby that I'm familiar with is a very tight technical track with only one straight where the folks riding get some real speed (where I know I'll probably get passed, shrug).

 [bacon] [Dolph]

i'd buy as complete a bike as you find with the desired donor frame.  it's all the little stuff that you will need which comes with a complete bike.  the pile of misc stuff ebay sellers have left over after parting out a bike.

your choice of swingarm will define your choice of engine cases pretty much, so you need to decide on sbk or s*r.

I say save yourself the headache and hassle of putting together a bike from parts. Just save your $$ and keep your eye out for a S2R1000 on Craigslist, eBay and the classified listings on all the motorcycle sites. I'm helping my brother rebuild a 2009 1100. Its taking a lot of time finding all the parts needed on eBay and other various used parts suppliers sites. The parts you get aren't always in the condition that they should be and then you are back to searching again for the right part in useable condition. Unless you plan on doing all the work yourself good luck on doing it for cheap.

Unless you have really thought this out and mapped out your plan of attack for the build you will most likely give up after realizing what I told you to be true and end up selling all the parts you have acquired for less than what you originally paid for them. Buy a turnkey at a fair price so you can get your ass on the road instead of wishing you had a running bike on the nice days or even the shitty days.

Usually gets sold as a box of misc parts. I have one from a speed triple that was integral to my naked daytona build.

I had forgotten about this Duc quirk of mounting the swinger directly to the cases. Thanks for the reminder. However, swingarms are generally over engineered and can handle some light modification without becoming dangerous. I'd just need to get measurements of mount points on cases to find something "close enough".


It's not a headache m8. It's winter therapy :)

I'm not gonna go to ebay and start buying loads of parts on a whim m8. What you see here in this thread is the beginning of the planning phase. So that I do have a plan of attack, so that I don't get halfway in, frustrated about having the wrong bits.

This options is still on the table. I know the market will pick up in the spring. Just not sure how much is in the budget as I'll be parting out the Triumph for the Duc project/purchase. And I'm never set in stone. I may still yet think a naked 998/748 is the way to go :shrug: I just don't like the idea of finding a hiding place for the battery after I remove the plastics from a sbk :p

I was hoping for information so that I can formulate some of my own opinions as well.
I completely rebuilt my Triumph over the winter.
I know what I'm proposing getting into :)

There looks to be a decent 1997 900ss engine on eBay right now. Bids start at $750. V heads and 9k mi.
I'd be on it but I'm a broke ass.

the 916 on sbk swingarms require a narrower crank case, and they have bearings in the swingarm.  plus they are mounted lower, so the drilling thru the cases is lower and is supported by the frame.

the non sbk have the pivot bearings in the cases, and no frame support.  so if you use an sbk chassis it's much easier to use an sbk swingarm and crankcases.  cases will mount in any chassis pretty much, they're all the same thing apart from the swingarm mounting.

you're asking an open ended subjective question, so it's pretty hard to answer.

It's not a headache m8. It's winter therapy :)

I'm not gonna go to ebay and start buying loads of parts on a whim m8. What you see here in this thread is the beginning of the planning phase. So that I do have a plan of attack, so that I don't get halfway in, frustrated about having the wrong bits.
This options is still on the table. I know the market will pick up in the spring. Just not sure how much is in the budget as I'll be parting out the Triumph for the Duc project/purchase. And I'm never set in stone. I may still yet think a naked 998/748 is the way to go :shrug: I just don't like the idea of finding a hiding place for the battery after I remove the plastics from a sbk :p

I was hoping for information so that I can formulate some of my own opinions as well.
I completely rebuilt my Triumph over the winter.
I know what I'm proposing getting into :)
[/quote]
Good to know that you already know what you are in for. I totally agree with Brad Black. You should definitely find the most complete bike that you can find. I would steer clear of anything with motor damage or missing engine parts. Other items like sub-frames, wheels, forks, triples basically anything outside of the frame area not supporting the heart of the bike are easy pickings. Right now I'm having a hard time trying to find a used cylinder head.  If you decide to stick with the build from eBay parts just remember to or try to stick with something that will keep you out of the game so long that you will get discouraed and give.

 [popcorn]

As someone who has bought a crashed 2000 900 monster cheap and took my time rebuilding it with parts bought here, on ebay and other used sources, I can tell you that in all likelyhood, it's going to cost you more, or at the very least as much as simply buying yourself a used, complete monster.

Just my opinion, but save yourself the time and money and buy a complete bike.

You guise are missing Rigez' whole point. He *wants* to build something custom from the ground up. I don't think cost or hassle has anything to do with it. Considering how much time and $ I've put in rebuilding a carby 750 into a 900 frankenmonster...I get it.

although I really don't like to think about how much $ I've blown and prob would not do it again.  :-\

Go for it. Sounds like you need a project for your mental health during the winter hibernation. As long as your mods pass the regulations, go for it. The biggest issue is the SSS/frame/motor fit as others have mentioned. I wouldnt do it, but you want to. Good for you. [thumbsup]
An older carbed M900 with oem swingarm and frame would be easiest for sure (and affordable), and is becoming a classic. The older belt drive motor has lots of aftermarket parts that are superior to oem, so you can upgrade performance in every area.

If it were me... I'd build a bike around the 1000DS motor with the curvy tubular SSS from the S2R/S4R series.

As far as what frame you need to do that, I have no idea.  Engine mounts to frame are common, but I dunno about the rear suspension mounts.  Obviously, an S2R frame would be the safe bet.

Full disclosure: my dream build is basically a S2R1000, upped displacement to 1100 (while retaining dry clutch), taller seat for my 6'4" frame, Ohlins suspenders, tail chop, and clipons.  Finished in the blue/white color scheme of the original S4R.  Not sure what I'd do for exhaust... though I lean toward the Quat-D belly exhaust.  Really cleans up the tail of the bike.

Hey Brad, I found an old thread that has a bunch of general info I was having trouble finding. Heres a post of yours that was specifically helpful.

I bolded some info I was having difficulty finding.

Get out of my head. Seriously. :)

I'll probably plan for several options while saving and hope I have the cash for a whole s2r1k or 1100s when the time comes. One of the plans I'll have tho is for a 996/998 fighter. I think that would be a nice ride. Monoposto, sssa, dry clutch, race winning machines of pure win, excluding the 2x4 seat and fuel tank humping :p

to clarify the bolded bit, the 748, 916 and 996 have the same swingarm mount arrangement.  the 996 is different to the st4s and s4r in the swingarm mounting, but has the same wider stud spacing.  st4s and s4r are the same cases.

so you need to choose your swingarm first probably, then go from there.

Does anybody else wish they were ten years younger and could be a Brad Black understudy?

ok. here goes

999 frame
1100 hypermotard motor
848 swingarm

name the issues?

I would build something in the vein of the early Radical Ducati bikes. You know something with a SBK frame, massive SBK triples and forks, radial brakes, 2V engine, S2R style swingarm with the Radical Ducati off-the-shelf tank and seat section.

What about 749/999 cases? I've seen a few 999's over on the .ms with 1098 swing arms. By all accounts, it messes with the geometry some, but I think some forethought and planning could eliminate or mitigate that. I'm seeing a bunch of 749's crop up on CL around here for dirt cheap (comparatively).

I just completed this bike for myself from several Ducati left over parts from previous builds.  The whole idea was to use what I had, the reason why it has a stock 999 swing arm and rear wheel.
It was a great project to do, but will have to say that starting with a complete donor is much easier, especially when needing smaller parts, nuts and bolts, etc.
Short list of main components:
999 frame (salvage title)
916 lower triple
Monster 1100 Clutch and brake masters
Custom upper triple
S4R Handle bars
999 swing arm
999 shock
999 wheels
848 forks and calipers
1000DS Multi Strada motor
S2R 1000 Monster wiring loom
Monster tank
Monster seat
Custom seat sub frame
Sport Classic instruments
Custom equal length header pipes

(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae249/Veloce-sa/999%20Monster/P7121396_zps442f4c27.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/Veloce-sa/media/999%20Monster/P7121396_zps442f4c27.jpg.html)

(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae249/Veloce-sa/999%20Monster/P7121395_zps6eb86517.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/Veloce-sa/media/999%20Monster/P7121395_zps6eb86517.jpg.html)

Thats awesome.

What were the hurdles regarding mounting the motor to that frame and swingarm to the 1000ds motor?

The 749/999 swing arm fits the Multi Strada 1000DS motor. No mods to motor or swing arm.

To fit the MS 1000DS motor to the frame you have to re position the front cross bar in the frame to make space for the 1000DS throttle bodies.  You will also need custom swing arm pivot/bolt "pucks" with holes in the center.

 
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae249/Veloce-sa/999%20Monster/P7121405w_zps2da08032.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/Veloce-sa/media/999%20Monster/P7121405w_zps2da08032.jpg.html)

If 1000DS cases slot in a 74/999 swing arm then a 1098 should fit with little work as well. But as far as dsss's go that 999 arm is fairly attractive. I think if I ended up fightering a 74/999 I wouldn't be mad  [cheeky]

johann may correct me here, but afaik the mts1000 and 1100 use different cases to the ss and monster, which is why the 999 swingarm works with them.  999 swingarm won't work with ss or monster or st cases.

ss, monster, st, 851/888 cases are all the same swingarm mount wise (bearing in case) and work with anything from 89 onwards pretty much.  the 916 style case, without bearings and a lower hole, work with all post 916 sbk models and the mts and hm 1000/1100.

which is why the 1098 arms fit 999, etc.  the suspension style is also the same 916 sbk onwards, with the pushrod and shock on the same lower pivot and the pushrod going forward to the rocker.  but, as you say, geometry is different.

the st series and st based monster are the same.  pre 2002 2v monsters are like the 851/888, with the hoop to rocker to shock in a square shape (sort of).

cool use of bits johann.
this is why you need to decide swingarm first pretty much, then match other stuff to it.

there are some issues with the 2v narrow cases as I think they have a different mount location in the oval for the swingarm.

several people have come up with different solutions and it depends on the frame you are using.

You forgot to mention the ultra-light chain you installed  [cheeky]

Ultra LTW prototype... carbon nanotubes

You are correct Brad.  The option of using a Multi/Hyper SSS is also there, but then the shock rocker/dog bone mounting on the 749/999 frame needs to be moved to the RHS on the frame.  Using the 749/999 swing arm is by far the easiest and cheapest.  I would have liked to use the later 999 (boxed) swing arm, but had the older version in stock.  I might change it later if I can find one at a good price.

I had the bike on the scale and dry weight was 367 lb.  This bike has a second set of body work that transform the bike into a Cafe Racer using a modified 999 tank and one of my Cafe Racer seats.  I will post pictures later.


Well spotted, I was waiting for the new chain to come in when I took the picture.

MM that aluminum fender looks awesome with your build! Glad you liked it.

Stunning build!  [drool]