Ducati Monster Forum

Hi Guys,

Been told a PC piggy-backing on a Termi ECU will smooth out the throttle (Monster 1100 EVO).  Is this worth the dough? as quite a bit of work to get it in.  What are the pros/cons?

Thanks for any advice,

Jimmy

Is it worth the dough? 

It is to me.

I have a PCV, its the second best option available IMO  [thumbsup]

Some light reading for you..

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=42213.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=42213.0)

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41934.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=41934.0)

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=53037.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=53037.0)

have it too, on the 696... worth it

Ditto re ungeheuer and  Raux's comments!

I took it one step further and included an AutoTune with the PCV.

Downside to installing both in an 1100 Evo is finding enough space if installing both units. I had already removed the flapper valve actuator, so that space was available. Also moved the traction control ecu connector out of the way; the harness is long enough to do that. Would have been a problem otherwise because stacking both units together was too tall for under the seat as verified by modeling clay compressions. If installing only the PCV, underseat space is sufficient.

 There is a bit of extra space under the tank as well. I stuck a fuse block under there on my 09 M1100S that allowed a bunch of switched and unswitched circuits, and did not even use the space that I used on the other Monster that I had where the relay for the jacket heater went!

Could be, but the Evo has less under tank space available due to ABS.

Plenty of room for PCV + Autotune module under my tank skins  ;D

What accommodation do you have for connecting to your computer?

Off with the LHS lank skin, in with the USB lead. 

For as often as I feel the need, it's convenient enough for my liking.

I was under the impression the PC had no effect on small throttle openings where most if not ALL of the surging happens. Best thing I did was remap with the Rexxer. Absolutely no surging at all and smooth throttle response. I have a fuelling chart from when I had it on the dyno its very close to perfect. I have homologated termis and hi flo air filter.

My Rexxer reflash smoothed out a lot of the fueling issues but its still not perfect.  Still get a lot of decel popping and the throttle can still be snatchy <3500RPM, can't help but think I'm leaving a few ponies on the table too.  I have a PCV in the garage that is on the to-do list.  Once installed it I'll have a custom dyno tuned map made that will hopefully rectify the aforementioned issues.  I'll be sure to post up a before and after PCV dyno thread for those interested.

Decel popping can sometimes be caused by very loose fitting silencers like the Termis mine wobble around on the system pipes, basically you suck more air in around the gaps, try sealing the silencers onto the system pipes with some quality exhaust sealant.
What bike you got Stormtrooper? I didn't think you could ride a monster below 3500 mine is like a buckaroo below 3500. I' agree throttle is much more sensitive but I don't think I am down on power with my map and setup. You are right of course your best bet is always a custom map on a dyno, do you have access to the Rexxer map editor or a hop with it? But if your doing that why would you want the PC?
Do you know which map you have from Rexxer? Maybe we could set up a thread to trade maps I have the C1 map.

Yup. It's been discussed at length  :).

PCV itself isnt able to control fuelling in closed loop, you are correct.  But the PCV (for Siemens ECUs at least) is supplied with either an optimizer module or individual optimizers (depending on if you have the older or newer version) which do effect the fuelling within closed loop.  I actually works well.

Having your ECU custom reflashed, is however even better IMO (although this option isn't available to many of us).

Anyone have a dyno tuned Map for Leo Vince slip-on with stock ECU they are willing to share?

With PC V and AutoTune remapped, mine will run smoothly at 3K rpm in third gear. It will accelerate smoothly from there, but wants a smooth throttle application. It also allows use of sixth gear on the interstate. I am extremely pleased with it, and I can be quite sensitive and critical of bike drivability. BTW, stock air cleaner with a Competition Werks can. Currently fabricating a MWR clone air cleaner set up.

 My first M1100S had LV slipons and stock otherwise and it ran quite nicely.

I had decel popping on occasion even after installing the PCV, but I found some blow by on the junction with the cans. I took them off, cleaned them and put Permatex Ultra Copper, let is cure the 24 hours. seems to be holding for now and no more decel pops, bike is sounding solid! So yes, as was mentioned, it is sucking in air on the exhaust somewhere.

Swap out the battery with a Shorai from MonsterParts and you'll have plenty of room [thumbsup]

Yep, certainly there is space to be gained with a Shorai. I ought to know because that is what is in there right now.....along with a lot of foam shims.  :)

Sorry if this a bit off topic, but why on the S2R-1000s did fitting the DP ECU cure the surging, but it doesn't on the new EVO's ?

Hoping an expert can answer your question. All I know is that the DP ECU did not cure the surging on my 2012 1100 Evo. I do have a friend with a 2013 and the DP ECU smoothed his out, but it still is not as smooth as mine with DP ECU and PCV and AutoTune.

There are enough variables so that one tune will not provide exactly the same performance on all bikes.

the siemens ecu in the m696/796/1100 bikes is closed loop in both oem and dp mapping.  as is the Mitsubishi ecu in the mts1200, diavel and panigale.

the marelli ecu 5am ecu is closed loop in most oem applications 2006 onwards, but open loop in dp, except for some of the 848 I believe.

the closed loop operation is what makes them surge.  why it makes them surge is clearly something the manufacturers and ecu suppliers can't work out.  they've been trying for a long time without real success.

I'm guessing its that they're struggling to comply with ever more stringent emissions standards... and in their quest to comply... fueling suffers to the point of unpleasantness. 

I believe you are correct. More downside for Ducati to run afoul of emissions standards than to have disappointed customers. But, on a somewhat upside, those standards have created a growth industry ala PowerCommander and Bazzaz.  :)

I think I want to add a Bazzaz ZFI to Termi ECU on my S4RS anyone with FHE?

I disagree.  closed loop is closed loop.  it's a controlled feedback system with the same sensor now for years.  the main change with the euro stds is that they increase the scope of the closed loop operation.  well, the emissions targets require an increased range of closed loop operation.  meaning instead of up to 100km/h for euro 3 it became up to 130 for euro 4 or some thing like that.

it's not a choice manufacturers make whether to comply or not.  not complying simply means the bikes cannot be sold.  the only way to meet the targets is closed loop and cats.  that's it

True closed loop is closed loop.

But more closed loop is more closed loop.... and increasing the scope in order to meet emissions targets exacerbates the fueling unpleasantness.

So yes - as you rightly say - they MUST comply and in doing so the resulting nasty fueling (due to extended closed loop) is the result, no?

Agreed. That is what I was attempting to say, with tongue in cheek. Guess I failed.  :-[