Ducati Monster Forum

http://rideapart.com/2013/09/2014-ducati-899-panigale-first-photos-and-specs/ (http://rideapart.com/2013/09/2014-ducati-899-panigale-first-photos-and-specs/)

1750RPM between max torque and max horsepower . . . I'd say, track happy bike

interesting that they are calling it a 'mid'size bike. does that make room for a new WSS spec bike?

I'd be interested to see a head-to-head between this and the 848.  Only 8 more HP, same torque... but more weight.  I'm wondering whether or how much the electronic rider aids can compensate for that.

I know there's the whole DSS vs SSS thing... I think the SSS looks better, but I had a 900SS.  I'm not averse to a DSS in a mid-weight bike.

Interestingly enough, this "mid" grade bike would in all likelihood run competitively with the top-tier stuff from 10 years ago.

The advances in moto technology over the last 20 years have been amazing to me.  Yeah, some of the "heritage" brands have continued producing bikes that haven't really changed over the decades, but looking at those who actively compete in motorsport, it's been quite the evolution.

Anyway... the 899 is intriguing.  I'd love to put an 1198 or 1199 in the garage, but I'm kinda put off by the unusable power levels.  For street use and occasional track days by the non-professional "enthusiast" rider, they're a bit much.  The 899 at 148 HP strikes me as being quite usable and friendly.  Plenty to scare myself with, but not so much that an errant sneeze would kill me.

Yeah, all that and I like the looks from this angle.
(http://rideapart.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/2014-Ducati-899-Panigale-770x433.jpg)

Seems kind of stupid to me this is being considered a middle weight bike when it's only 100cc's smaller than the rest of the liter bikes. And for club racers that means they are screwed into being forced to race against bigger faster machines even possibly it's own big brother, the 1199.

correct me if im wrong but i thought they are given a break since its a twin and are still allowed to race against the mid sized inline fours and triples? or does that only apply to the 848?

Right now the 899 would race with the big bikes in CCS/LRRS

the formula for the middle weights was

600 4cyl
675 3cyl
750 2cyl


I think the 750 GSX-R never had a series either and was considered the middleweight GSX-R

I could see the 899 and GSX-R 750 being in the same class, but the 899 in the 1000cc class with an R1... no way

Depending on class CCS/LRRS allows up to 855cc twin liquid cooled in the middleweight class.

They might re-write the rules to allow the new Panigale.

is the twin that down on power that a 300cc allowance is needed?

Look how well it is doing is WSBK with a 200 cc allowance.

to me. the TB and the weight restrictions are the issue there.

they make the rules too complicated.

they should make a cc restriction and that's it.

They already changed the TB limit.

I agree the rules are too complicated.

3k between that and the original Pani?  [thumbsdown]
I like it but its like the mortars 796 versus the daddy, is spend the coin and go all out IMO. 

I seriously wonder with the pricing and size if they aren't think of a 750 version

1199 17,995
899   14,995
750   12,995

then race the 750 in the WSS

Still no SSS sportbike with ABS for under $11tyb  :-\.

the more I think about this, the more I think the market/planner/developers forget Ducati history.

the smaller SBKs were always copies of the larger bikes with a different characteristic and different market

now they think the smaller SBK buyers are just beginner waiting to step up to the larger bike.

the 748 always held it's own, and had it's on S and R versions. which are very very nice bikes.

I always thought the 848 deserved an SL version at least for the Final edition, with all the S components and CF goodies.

this whole idea that you HAVE to step up to the bigger bikes to get the SSS or better suspension is dumb IMO. you're narrowing your market not expanding it.

just a slow 1198. CUT THE FAT!

We are almost back to the start with the 916, does anyone know the HP, torque and of a 916 for comparison, I know the weight is 203Kg but im not sure if that is wet.

well it started with the 851/888 so we are full circle already

notice they aren't using the term 'frameless' anymore. maybe to differentiate from that failed GP bike ;)

A 916 makes ~100-105hp @ the wheel so not much comparison between it and an 899.


Could be...

150 @ the crank = ??? at the wheel

more than a 9**

Ducati 899 Panigale: your road to the track / la tua strada verso la pista (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odeOSst4-bs#)

Yea but iirc the inline fours of that time period were in the 900cc range as well. Same with the 916. Then the inline fours bumped up to 1000cc and ducati followed suit with the 996 and 998 engines.

851:  93 RWP 430/460 lbs
888: 95.4 RWP 210/217 kg
916: 102 RWP 198/204 kg

748: 90 RWP 202/208 kp
749: 105 RWP 199/  kg
848 evo: 117 RWP 168/  kg

On a side note, the 848 is not longer on the website under superbike :o.

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/index.do (http://www.ducati.com/bikes/index.do)

oh I should have added, the design sucks too.

and looked better doing it. [thumbsup]

+1

I still lust for an original 1995-'96 916, with the Cagiva-font graphics.  Getting hard to find one that hasn't been trashed, though.  It appears the serious collectors with clean examples are holding them close.  I just want a clean one to park along the wall of my garage, with a little museum data placard and accent lighting.  I figure folks spend several grand on art all the time... I just happen to want a work sculpted by Massimo Tamburini.  ;)

I'm not a huge fan of the Panigale's looks.  Slap on a dual swingarm and it looks even worse.  Don't know what it is but the 899 just looks cheap to me. 

Granted its a step up from the 999/749.  But I think it's a step back from the 1098/848.

Exactly what I've been mulling over mikeb.  With clean used 848's going for $7K and 1098's going for $8K, that leaves a LOT of lettuce to put Ohlins and other tasty 'bits' onto the last of the trellis framed SBK's.

I haven't mentioned this previously, but somedays I miss the sh*t out of my 848.

while I agree with mikeb on the facia of things, I am holding my overall opinion for when I get to see it in the flesh, as it may change somewhat at that juncture.

it amuses me to point out how this discussion is going in terms of polarity somewhat like the release of the 999/749 with peoples opinions here and other places.

slap a Panigale front end on a 749/999 and you have a nice bike  ;D

I wasn't big on the Panigale until I saw it in person.  Then the aero geek in me came out.  It's not so much soothing aesthetic as much as it is an engineering and aerodynamic work.  The F1 cues in the inlets and air directing bodywork appeal to me.  I also love the tail.  The taillights and those through passages in the ear end look cool.  The headlights?  Still not big on.  It doesn't have the attractive eyes of the 916 or the 1098 series bikes.  Now, if you put the eyes of a 1098 on the body of a Panigale, that'd be incredible.

So yeah... If there was $20k (give or take) sitting in the bank, I still don't know whether I'd put money down on a clean 1098S/1198S, or the Panigale S Tricolore they have at the local dealer (used, with 900 miles, for a hefty discount).

I do know I like the Panigale much better than the 749/999.  I'd buy one of those on the cheap (maybe salvage title) to put track skins on and go thrash... but it sure as heck isn't gonna be displayed as a work of art.

Up to 850cc twins are currently allowed to race with I-4 600s in WMRRA (Wash.) & OMRRA (Oregon), and I believe AFM (N. Cali.)

The 848 is definitely not down on power compared to the 600s...it takes a built 600 to match relatively stock 848 power (i.e., the Duc is just tuned and mapped with a full exhaust, the 600 needs that plus head work).

It will be a shame if club rules are adjusted to allow the 899 to run with 600s. The twin will kill them on power. They should be stuck racing the 750s and liter bikes IMO. Probably won't matter much though, as not a lot of people race Ducs...they're too expensive to keep going for most racers, despite Ducati paying a very nice contingency for podium finishes.

There's another HUGE flaw with the Pani (1199, and assume 899) from a race standpoint. The electronics are based on the stock Pirelli tires, which are not true race rubber. I think it works with Pirelli race rubber, but everyone I know that has tried a different brand (i.e. Dunlop) has had trouble with the TC system due to the different tire profile. Ducati didn't build a "calibrate" function into the ecu to account for different race rubber, which I find unbelievable on a race bike. My RSV4 has that function so I can run any tire I please. Being limited to Pirellis is a big deal, as tires are a very personal thing.

Oh...and the DSS is f'ing ugly. Makes the bike look fat.

That's like saying bell-bottoms make Lauren Vickers look fat.

 [laugh] You may have a point.

hold your horses


Ducati CEO says there are FOUR new bikes coming out

899 Panigale
Scramble
Super Monster
and.....

I have two guesses
New Supersport based on the Bruce Meyer's deepsump air cooled previous gen sbk
750 Panigale qualifying it for WSS

They are really starting to step on their toes as far as how close their models are to each other.

Neither. No way in hell they'd have a 750 and 899 Pani...and the Supersport is long dead.

Maybe the 1199R is #4.

1199R has been out...

[scoots to edge of seat]

Wasn't it released this year? If so they could be counting it as 1 of 4 introduced in 2013.

nope, it's not being named

Diavel Gucci Blingtasm L.E. ?

Fixed

they say NO frame, but, then they say 'mono casco' . . .
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/970713_229487243872786_255502130_n.jpg)

As far as club-level racing.....
From all I've seen and heard, and with the obvious baseline of equally good suspension on both bikes....

There's precious few riders who could lap quicker on an 1199 than on an 899.

This is what I am thinking.

We're getting to a level of technology and "stupid quick" power that the only folks who can realistically use the added power are pro-level racers.

I disagree. Sure, there are a lot of guys that are quicker on a middleweight than a litre bike, but they're not that fast anyway (at least when you're talking racing). The fast club guys (and there are quite a few in WMRRA & OMRRA and even more in AFM) are faster on a liter bike. Some use the power as a crutch and do very well, and others just flat use the power because they're riding the wheels off their 600 and need more. Guys enter the Open classes on a 600 all the time, but only the super fast guys can compete for a win against the liter bikes...and sometimes even they get beat, or crash trying to over ride their bike.

All of the track records in the PNW are on liter bikes for a reason.

Yeah it's definitely not a new Monster.  :-*

Yes, that's weird for sure. Now I'm no techie, but that looks suspiciously like a frame to me.

Aren't they releasing 4. a little later anyway?

 [thumbsup] [clap]

.........and they race Hondas.  ;)

He got me on Super Monster.

Tough but fair. Also, it was EICMA I was thinking of...

Casco == Helmet in Italian  ;)
Monoscocca == Body/Frame integration

It's all Cyrillic to me.

Now that?  THAT is something >this guy< wants to test ride (fugly headlight be damned).

Headlights can be changed. I'm sure you changed a few.

899 steel tank, 1199 aluminum....

What's that about? Plastic tank problems?

I now want an 848 even more than I did before.

how about a new ST ?!?!?!

They already have the new multistrada, hyperstrada, and diavelstrada. What's next the superstrada...

I'll withold judgement on the 899 until I see it in person... But it needs to come in Black...

There's a Strada?

yes...to compete with the Concourse14 and the 'Busa

ok, now if they took the 899 and made a legitmate Strada version with hard cases and a better riding position. I MIGHT be interested.

If it comes in Black or Dark for 2015, I might just give up the keys to my red '08 848 to get it.



See above post. ;)

BC.

My new guess:  M821

discuss...

My guess is a baby diavel using the 821.

Or a straight hooligan hyper using the 1198.

Diavel 899

actually the 1198 hyper makes sense

so you can see what is more retarded to ride...that, the 1200 Dorsoduro, or the cracked out StupidDuke 1290R ?!?!?!?

lol that was funny [clap]

Only 1190.

I know, not even worth mentioning now right?

;)

I wouldn't call it 'sense', but a bit of fun  [thumbsup]

http://www.desmolupo.it/ (http://www.desmolupo.it/)

 Agreed.      Cost cutting DSS ruins the bike for me.

Yea I bet it rides like a dream and makes all kinds of power everywhere.

the issue is, so do 10 other bikes that look like stink and cost less.
Ducati has always been about passion, sexy looks AND race winning since Paul Smart took Imola.

Price is way too close to a new S1000RR for my taste, let alone a slightly used 2013 one.

Honestly I'm not digging the way it looks. The swingarm for me kills it, but I luf the single sided!! But overall it looks too heavy in the front and not enough visual weight in the rear to tie it all together

Fun to watch how fast this guy has the 899 changing directions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cztYXz-ZYjk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cztYXz-ZYjk)

Ducati's sending out invites with a password to be the "1st" to own the 899. Supposedly they are going to ship 300 to North America prior to the January 2014 official release.

Smart marketing. Pay full pop for a new model so you can get it a month early? No thanks.

Yeah, I got that in the mail the other day as well.  Maybe if it was a special edition with differenct colors or options, but in a few months you would be the only one to know you got one of the first 300.

899 has aSTEEL fuel tank , and my UK dealer says its because ducati are fed up with Fasohol problems with plastic tanks, and its likely that all future models will be supplied with STEEL tanks

And the 1199 has an aluminum tank. So this still isn't caps worthy news.

STEEL or ALUMINIUM   whatever its big news to all the poor suckers who got shafted with  plastic crap tanks ,,and those bikes will be worthless in several years time unless  aftermarket makes steel or ally replacements , now that Ducati is owned by VW/ Audi they want that issue buried  hence the switch to steel ,,,

Jerryz,  What will cost more to replace?  A flexed out plastic tank or I dented aluminum (or steel) tank?  While I am not a fan of plastic it sure is nice that for about $400.00 one can change the entire look of their Duc.  Not so easy with painted metal tanks.

That is not the plastic tank issue of which he speaks. You're talking about the newer generation Monsters where the outer panels are interchangeable and only cover the tank.  He's talking about the older ones, including the Sport Classics, the **98, 848 and Streetfighters tank swelling issue and each of those tanks is close to $2,000 for the tank alone, no hardware. Painted metal tanks can usually be fixed for less.

Ahh that makes sense.  Can't imagine the ugly piece of plastic tank on the New Gen Monsters will cost that much.  Heck maybe one won't even notice expansion with these.