Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 05:25:54 PM

Title: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
**Note, the first couple issues in this post have already been resolved, I changed the thread title to reflect the current update**


So I am trying to change my fuel filter. I searched far and wide for a guide online, could not find one, so I decided to just dive in and try it. Never done this before on any bike. I've had my tank off before so I figured that was probably he hardest part.

So anyway, I got it off, took note of where the fuel filter assembly is, and started to undo it, these bolts visible in the bottom here:

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w431/malamikigo/null_zps5b0822e0.jpg)

As I started to loosen the first one, this happened:

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w431/malamikigo/null_zpsb8f06f34.jpg)

I tightened it back up shortly after it started spewing all over the place, but I'm wondering if I'm make the beast with two backsing this up already?

Is this whole assembly submersed in the tank? Do I need to have it completely empty before removing it? I thought I would pull the assembly off and disconnect a line and I would just have to plug off the line with a golf tee. I currently have about 1/8th of a tank in the tank.

Please help the noob mechanic.
Title: Re: Stuck trying to change fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 06:14:46 PM
Nevermind, I got that aspect sorted. Now I'm stuck again though.  Been prying at this clamp with my leatherman for a while and cannot get the damn thing undone/off. Any suggestions?

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w431/malamikigo/null_zpsfdff71a1.jpg)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w431/malamikigo/null_zps869934df.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuck trying to change fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on September 10, 2013, 06:19:02 PM
did you purchase a new clamp? why? that one is a 'one use only' . . .
Title: Re: Stuck trying to change fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ducatiz on September 10, 2013, 06:31:45 PM
Those clamps are one use.  Pick up some hose clamps or use a gemplers wire tool to seal it.  No way to reuse those hose clamps.
Title: Re: Stuck trying to change fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: SpikeC on September 10, 2013, 06:50:03 PM
 or get an Oetiker clamp and pliers.
Title: Re: Stuck trying to change fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 07:32:35 PM
I think you guys misunderstood....I wasn't trying to reuse the clamps, I know they're one use only.  I have hose clamps to replace them with...the issue I was having was that I was having difficulty just getting them off in the first place.  But I did end up getting them off by mangling them with my leatherman till i could slide it off the hose.

I installed the new filter, put it all back together the same way it came out, but now I've run into another issue.  She just won't start now.  I just get a repeating clunk clunk clunk clunk sound.  I made a video:

Ducati 696 won't start after fuel filter change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYdri4xzn84&feature=share&list=UU90eJjakaByDVLEaelNPbvA#)

No idea what this is about.  As far as I could tell it all went back together easily and exactly as I took it apart.  Is there some step I might've missed somehow? 

Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: SpikeC on September 10, 2013, 08:10:49 PM
 no comment
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on September 10, 2013, 08:14:17 PM
pump priming?
filter in the correct position?
fuel in the tank?


Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 08:23:41 PM
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on September 10, 2013, 08:14:17 PM
pump priming?
filter in the correct position?
fuel in the tank?


- The pump is priming when i turn the key, yes. 
- I believe it is? There's only really one way to put it in.  I replaced it exactly as the old one was.  Below is a photo of the new filter in place before i put it back in the tank.
- There is fuel in the tank, I dumped a 5L jerrycan of fresh fuel into it before starting it. 

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w431/malamikigo/null_zps330ac123.jpg)

Quote from: SpikeC on September 10, 2013, 08:10:49 PM
no comment

Thanks for your super helpful input.  If that's supposed to be some condescending remark on my mechanical ability, maybe you should just stay on out of threads where people are asking for help.  We all started somewhere.  Way to be supportive.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on September 10, 2013, 08:31:17 PM
I can only suggest open and close the ign switch not the starter a few more times to get fuel all over the system then try again

Did any fuel get to the fuse box during dissembly? Any hose kinked?

I am on my back on my bed on my cellphone in case I dont answer I will do tomorrow
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: Speeddog on September 10, 2013, 08:37:21 PM
Quote from: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 08:23:41 PM
~~~SNIP~~~
Thanks for your super helpful input.  If that's supposed to be some condescending remark on my mechanical ability, maybe you should just stay on out of threads where people are asking for help.  We all started somewhere.  Way to be supportive.

Don't fret, SpikeC painted himself into a corner by repeating an (usually) unhelpful suggestion too many times, and got reprimanded for it.
And now when it's relevant, and possibly helpful, he can't say it.
Perhaps now he is enlightened on how the tech forum works.

Confirm that your battery cable connections are clean and tight (not too tight, the battery terminals aren't bulletproof).
Confirm that your battery is fully charged.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 08:44:04 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on September 10, 2013, 08:37:21 PM
Confirm that your battery cable connections are clean and tight (not too tight, the battery terminals aren't bulletproof).
Confirm that your battery is fully charged.

Thanks, I will check both those things out tomorrow. 


Quote from: Darkmonster620 on September 10, 2013, 08:31:17 PM
I can only suggest open and close the ign switch not the starter a few more times to get fuel all over the system then try again

Did any fuel get to the fuse box during dissembly? Any hose kinked?

I am on my back on my bed on my cellphone in case I dont answer I will do tomorrow

I tried cycling the ignition a few times when I was first trying to start it.  Had the same thought process as you on that one.  No avail though. 

I don't think any fuel would've got on the fuse box during disassembly.   Tank was pretty clear of the bike during that initial leak I had.  I'll check for kinked hoses tomorrow as well, but again I don't think so. 
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: memper on September 10, 2013, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on September 10, 2013, 08:37:21 PM
Don't fret, SpikeC painted himself into a corner by repeating an (usually) unhelpful suggestion too many times, and got reprimanded for it.
And now when it's relevant, and possibly helpful, he can't say it.
Perhaps now he is enlightened on how the tech forum works.

Confirm that your battery cable connections are clean and tight (not too tight, the battery terminals aren't bulletproof).
Confirm that your battery is fully charged.

You said the B word...
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: memper on September 10, 2013, 08:53:46 PM
OP: it might not hurt to check the relays as well.

Oh, and from a novice mechanic to a beginner mechanic, my advice is to check things going from simple stuff to complex and retrace your steps.

Bike started...enter stage right, human interaction...now no starty.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: memper on September 10, 2013, 08:53:46 PM

Bike started...enter stage right, human interaction...now no starty.

[laugh]  lol, that gave me a laugh.

Thanks for the tips, I'll be back at it tomorrow and see what I can get figured out.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ungeheuer on September 10, 2013, 11:04:37 PM
Quote from: memper on September 10, 2013, 08:53:46 PM
Oh, and from a novice mechanic to a beginner mechanic, my advice is to check things going from simple stuff to complex and retrace your steps.
This is very sound advice indeed.

I'm not saying this to be a smart arse (even though I can be one, I'm not being one now, OK?)....   you disassembled some stuff to play with the fuel supply... and now the bike seems (from your vid) to not have a fueling issue... but an electrical issue instead.  

It's bound to be something you did/didn't do.  Again, I'm only saying this to be helpful.  Retracing your steps is what will lead you to whatever it is you inadvertently disconnected... disturbed or failed to reconnect.

And even though you've been nowhere near it, check the battery ground connection at the motor end (its under the little black plastic cover on the LHS near the base of the horizontal cylinder).

Quote from: malamikigo on September 10, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
**Note, the first couple issues in this post have already been resolved, I changed the thread title to reflect the current update**
And even though you've resolved the fuel pissing out issue.... don't assume your problem isnt back here....  Re-check everything that you did  [thumbsup]

(You worked out then that to get that cover off the bottom of the fuel tank you have to remove the securing nuts without loosening the studs at the same time....  nuts hold the cover on... studs bolt the fuel pump assy up to the base of the fuel tank. Its a dumb-arse design IMO).
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 11, 2013, 12:01:59 PM
I've checked the battery connections, and tried jumpstarting the bike while connected to my car. Same result, same clicking sound, nothing changed at all. The lights on the bike all go on at full brightness when I turn the key, everything really appears to be fine with the battery.

Still stuck. 
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: Howie on September 11, 2013, 07:19:21 PM
Take positive from the car and go straight to the connector at the starter motor and see if the bike cranks.  Make double sure the bike is in neutral since you are bypassing all safeties.  Actually, before doing that get the bike on a rear stand, remove the spark plugs, put the bike in gear and turn the rear wheel to make sure the engine turns.  If your video is accurate the click you hear is the solenoid, but the starter motor is not spinning.  Possible causes; weak battery, poor connections, bad starter motor, seized engine.  Most likely?  Weak battery or bad connection. It takes way less amperage to light a headlight than it does to crank over a motor.   Fully charge and load test battery.  If the battery is weak further diagnosis is like pissing up a rope.  Do you have a volt meter?  Br

Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ungeheuer on September 11, 2013, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: malamikigo on September 11, 2013, 12:01:59 PM
I've checked the battery connections....
Just at the battery terminals, or?
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ducatiz on September 12, 2013, 06:34:31 AM
Quote from: howie on September 11, 2013, 07:19:21 PM
Take positive from the car and go straight to the connector at the starter motor and see if the bike cranks.  Make double sure the bike is in neutral since you are bypassing all safeties.  Actually, before doing that get the bike on a rear stand, remove the spark plugs, put the bike in gear and turn the rear wheel to make sure the engine turns.  If your video is accurate the click you hear is the solenoid, but the starter motor is not spinning.  Possible causes; weak battery, poor connections, bad starter motor, seized engine.  Most likely?  Weak battery or bad connection. It takes way less amperage to light a headlight than it does to crank over a motor.   Fully charge and load test battery.  If the battery is weak further diagnosis is like pissing up a rope.  Do you have a volt meter?  Br



You can remove the wire to the starter and attach a voltmeter to it.  + to the wire and run the negative to the engine ground, then hit the start button and look at the voltage.  Make sure the battery is charged fully.  You should see well north of 12 v. 

If not, then do the same thing at the head of the wire at the solenoid.  If you see 12+ at that point, then the wire is bad.

If you still see low voltage at the head of the wire, then do the same thing on the other side of the solenoid.  If you see 12+ on the other side, then the solenoid is the problem.

Also -- remove the engine ground wire and rub it down the connections with a wire brush and then reconnect with dielectric grease.  The frame ground is the weak point for many bikes.

Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: Raux on September 12, 2013, 06:45:59 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb, mainly cause i can't get the video to work, that you damaged a battery cable/connection on the reinstall and aren't getting enough juice.

I say this, because it's something i almost did, and it's very tight in there.

either that, or one of your connections from the battery to the starter is loose.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: Howie on September 12, 2013, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on September 12, 2013, 06:34:31 AM
You can remove the wire to the starter and attach a voltmeter to it.  + to the wire and run the negative to the engine ground, then hit the start button and look at the voltage.  Make sure the battery is charged fully.  You should see well north of 12 v. 

If not, then do the same thing at the head of the wire at the solenoid.  If you see 12+ at that point, then the wire is bad.

If you still see low voltage at the head of the wire, then do the same thing on the other side of the solenoid.  If you see 12+ on the other side, then the solenoid is the problem.

Also -- remove the engine ground wire and rub it down the connections with a wire brush and then reconnect with dielectric grease.  The frame ground is the weak point for many bikes.



[thumbsup]
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: Monstyr on September 12, 2013, 09:50:46 AM
I've just changed the fuel filter on my S2R, while its slightly different I think the principal is the same.

One thing I noticed about your vid is the fuel doesn't seem to prime and I'll wager that you've dislodged or not reconnected an earth wire or similar inside the tank alongside your filter. My filter was secured to a plastic lug with a self tapping screw, this same screw also secured a couple of wires.
I'd be checking those before doing anything outside the tank as those are the bits that have been disturbed in the process of changing the filter.






BTW. Those hose clamps can be easily opened by inserting a small allen key into the loop at the top and levering the small loop from side to side(without applying any force to the hose), they can also be refitted by carefully crimping the the small loop as near the base as possible.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: oldndumb on September 12, 2013, 11:28:38 AM
Quote from: Monstyr on September 12, 2013, 09:50:46 AM
.........
BTW. Those hose clamps can be easily opened by inserting a small allen key into the loop at the top and levering the small loop from side to side(without applying any force to the hose), they can also be refitted by carefully crimping the the small loop as near the base as possible.

Thank you. I thought I was the only one that found it quite simple to remove and reuse them.  :)
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: rgramjet on September 12, 2013, 01:44:21 PM
+1.  I opened the clamps by placing the end of a flat screwdriver against the face of the clamp and giving it a twist.  Popped right open.  To close, just apply pressure to the outside of the clamp, with pliers, until it snaps shut.

This process took me about 2 hours due to my filter being mounted inside of the friggin tank!  I still have marks on my forearms.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ducatiz on September 13, 2013, 07:09:47 AM
Yall are crazy.  Hose clamps are too cheap to reuse them.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ungeheuer on September 13, 2013, 07:39:49 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on September 13, 2013, 07:09:47 AM
Yall are crazy.  Hose clamps are too cheap to reuse them.
+1
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: oldndumb on September 13, 2013, 08:22:59 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on September 13, 2013, 07:09:47 AM
Yall are crazy.  Hose clamps are too cheap to reuse them.

As compared to the price of convenience?

True, better to replace if you have them on hand but quite safe to reuse provided you don't use a sledge hammer and crow bar to remove them. That style is actually quite simple to remove, inspect, and reinstall with no additional risk. Much better than a worm screw clamp because they are 360 degree clamp up.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ducatiz on September 13, 2013, 09:53:02 AM
Actually, I use a Clamptite tool to make hose clamps with stainless safety wire.  100% superior in every way to both kinds.

I am just surprised people try to reuse the crimp type.  They are designed for single use.  The correct method is to use a clipper or wire cutter and cut the crimp off.

I would be leery of reusing them by bending the crimp to loosen, then re-crimping.

The clamptite is great and safety wire is cheap and superior.  I took my car to have the AC compressor checked out at the dealer and the mechanic was like "WTF is that stuff?  It looks amazing"... I showed him the clamptite online, and he said he was ordering one for his home projects. 
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: rgramjet on September 13, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on September 13, 2013, 09:53:02 AM
Actually, I use a Clamptite tool to make hose clamps with stainless safety wire.  100% superior in every way to both kinds.

I am just surprised people try to reuse the crimp type.  They are designed for single use.  The correct method is to use a clipper or wire cutter and cut the crimp off.

I would be leery of reusing them by bending the crimp to loosen, then re-crimping.

The clamptite is great and safety wire is cheap and superior.  I took my car to have the AC compressor checked out at the dealer and the mechanic was like "WTF is that stuff?  It looks amazing"... I showed him the clamptite online, and he said he was ordering one for his home projects. 

Clamplite tool sounds like a good investment.  Not sure how onebcould use it inside the fuel tank.
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: Ddan on September 13, 2013, 11:53:25 AM
Quote from: rgramjet on September 13, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
Clamplite tool sounds like a good investment.  Not sure how onebcould use it inside the fuel tank.

It has it's uses but does require some room
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ducatiz on September 13, 2013, 12:26:37 PM
Quote from: rgramjet on September 13, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
Clamplite tool sounds like a good investment.  Not sure how onebcould use it inside the fuel tank.

Yeah on the metal efi tanks a squeeze or wormscrew clamo is probably your best bet....
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: Monstyr on September 13, 2013, 01:08:27 PM
Rather than get caught up derailing this thread I had only commented that the OE clamps could be reused with a bit of care.
Like others may have done I wasn't expecting to find these and did not want to leave my tank in bits for an hour while I went to find replacements, in any case your clamp tool seems excessively expensive when (if you know anout it beforehand) you can just buy a couple of these type of clamps for pennies.
(http://images.gasgoo.com/MiMwMDRfMDA0IzM5MDAzNDEwMA--/auto-part-constant-tension-single-wire-spring-hose-clamps-without-screw.jpg)


Did the OP get his bike to run?
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: ducpainter on September 13, 2013, 05:31:41 PM
Quote from: rgramjet on September 13, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
Clamplite tool sounds like a good investment.  Not sure how onebcould use it inside the fuel tank.
Not everyone does it the way you did.

It is far easier to remove the entire pump/filter assembly and change out the filter on the bench. ;)
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: rgramjet on September 13, 2013, 07:31:42 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on September 13, 2013, 05:31:41 PM
Not everyone does it the way you did.

It is far easier to remove the entire pump/filter assembly and change out the filter on the bench. ;)

I thought about going that route, but with my luck......I would have done something very bad....
Title: Re: Bike won't start after changing fuel filter! Please help!
Post by: malamikigo on September 14, 2013, 05:52:14 PM
hey guys, i will post a thorough update soon.  Sorry for my lack of replies, it's been super busy with work the last few days.  There are developments though.  Will post again soon.  Gotta run for now though.