Ducati Monster Forum

Pos.   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time   Gap 1st/Prev.
1   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   328.9   1'47.804   
2   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Yamaha Factory Racing   Yamaha   329.5   1'47.814   0.010 / 0.010
3   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   334.0   1'47.957   0.153 / 0.143
4   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Yamaha Factory Racing   Yamaha   329.7   1'47.962   0.158 / 0.005
5   6   Stefan BRADL   GER   LCR Honda MotoGP   Honda   334.6   1'48.128   0.324 / 0.166
6   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   GO&FUN Honda Gresini   Honda   330.4   1'48.302   0.498 / 0.174
7   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   323.8   1'48.653   0.849 / 0.351
8   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   328.2   1'48.854   1.050 / 0.201
9   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   327.7   1'49.219   1.415 / 0.365
10   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Power Electronics Aspar   ART   317.8   1'49.348   1.544 / 0.129
11   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Ducati Team   Ducati   330.8   1'49.428   1.624 / 0.080
12   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Energy T.I. Pramac Racing   Ducati   324.3   1'50.094   2.290 / 0.666
13   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Ignite Pramac Racing   Ducati   325.2   1'50.685   0.961 / 0.291
14   7   Hiroshi AOYAMA   JPN   Avintia Blusens   FTR   312.9   1'50.995   1.271 / 0.310
15   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Came IodaRacing Project   Ioda-Suter   306.0   1'51.030   1.306 / 0.035
16   14   Randy DE PUNIET   FRA   Power Electronics Aspar   ART   311.8   1'51.297   1.573 / 0.267
17   5   Colin EDWARDS   USA   NGM Mobile Forward Racing   FTR Kawasaki   311.0   1'51.327   1.603 / 0.030
18   71   Claudio CORTI   ITA   NGM Mobile Forward Racing   FTR Kawasaki   312.6   1'51.519   1.795 / 0.192
19   8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Blusens   FTR   318.1   1'51.552   1.828 / 0.033
20   70   Michael LAVERTY   GBR   Paul Bird Motorsport   ART   313.1   1'51.639   1.915 / 0.087
21   67   Bryan STARING   AUS   GO&FUN Honda Gresini   FTR Honda   310.7   1'52.102   2.378 / 0.463
22   23   Luca SCASSA   ITA   Cardion AB Motoracing   ART   311.0   1'52.305   2.581 / 0.203
23   52   Lukas PESEK   CZE   Came IodaRacing Project   Ioda-Suter   303.4   1'52.989   3.265 / 0.684
24   50   Damian CUDLIN   AUS   Paul Bird Motorsport   PBM   311.6   1'53.521   3.797 / 0.532

Same ole, but check out Yonny on the Duc! I know that having those extra horses is nice, but it's impressive to see him riding the damn thing almost as good as Iannone. Give him enough time and he might be running up with the other Ducs.

Marquez on pole again.

Jorge is working hard, I actually saw him slide the bike a bit.

Marquez almost dumped it a few times. No idea how he saved it.

7 years on, it still rings true.

(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/097/3/a/Motorbike_Posters_Repsol_by_Eccles116.jpg)

What a 28th birthday present - finding out you will never win a MotoGP title.

FINALLY.. PUNTED his PEDROBLOCKERBUTTHEAD out of the way.

The real Marquez just woke up.

Pos.   Points   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time/Gap
1   25   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   166.6   42'03.459
2   20   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Yamaha Factory Racing   Yamaha   166.5   +1.356
3   16   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Yamaha Factory Racing   Yamaha   165.7   +12.927
4   13   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   GO&FUN Honda Gresini   Honda   165.7   +13.787
5   11   6   Stefan BRADL   GER   LCR Honda MotoGP   Honda   165.7   +13.973
6   10   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   165.6   +14.662
7   9   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   164.5   +31.220
8   8   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   163.9   +40.671
9   7   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Ducati Team   Ducati   163.1   +53.413
10   6   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Energy T.I. Pramac Racing   Ducati   163.0   +55.067
11   5   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Power Electronics Aspar   ART   162.8   +58.001
12   4   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Ignite Pramac Racing   Ducati   162.4   +1'05.513
13   3   14   Randy DE PUNIET   FRA   Power Electronics Aspar   ART   162.3   +1'06.589
14   2   7   Hiroshi AOYAMA   JPN   Avintia Blusens   FTR   162.2   +1'08.674
15   1   71   Claudio CORTI   ITA   NGM Mobile Forward Racing   FTR Kawasaki   162.1   +1'09.130
16      5   Colin EDWARDS   USA   NGM Mobile Forward Racing   FTR Kawasaki   161.9   +1'12.041
17      23   Luca SCASSA   ITA   Cardion AB Motoracing   ART   159.9   +1'45.152
18      67   Bryan STARING   AUS   GO&FUN Honda Gresini   FTR Honda   159.9   +1'45.228
19      52   Lukas PESEK   CZE   Came IodaRacing Project   Ioda-Suter   159.9   +1'45.583
Not Classified
8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Blusens   FTR   157.8   15 Laps
26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   166.7   18 Laps
50   Damian CUDLIN   AUS   Paul Bird Motorsport   PBM   152.2   20 Laps
9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Came IodaRacing Project   Ioda-Suter      0 Lap
70   Michael LAVERTY   GBR   Paul Bird Motorsport   ART      0 Lap

Will they give MM a yellow card? With all the replays, I could not tell if they actually made contact or if the Turd simply got flustered.

Livio confirmed that they touched and that a sensor flew off causing the TC to over power.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Confirmed+Pedrosa+and+Marquez+made+contact (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Confirmed+Pedrosa+and+Marquez+made+contact)

Sensor in question:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7353/10005078555_4319703c01_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/10005078555/)


Pretty remarkable that MM could clip it just enough on the way past to break a wire or the connector, yet not crash.
Perhaps DP's crew got a bit sloppy and didn't have that ziptie to restrain the service loop in the wire.

The Golden Child™ dodges another missile as Lady Luck slaps Pedrosa down again.

After pic:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/10006017856_fb947cbb98_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/10006017856/)

what happened to the whole "this is not my championship to win, it's Pedrosa's" talk?  That surely went out the window.  That power slide that MM put on Lorenzo was astounding.

He simply stated that Pedro is number one essentially until either the season is over or until he wins the championship.  Pedro had to win to retain number one Repsol status.  He's just playing the PR game and the nice teammate game.  I'm pretty sure deep down he knew the odds favor him for the title.

I'm glad he got out of Marc's way.  I don't think Pedro could have passed Jorge and kept up the pace.   Did someone at Honda install a remote traction control on off switch on Pedro's bike?

It must be burning up Jorge that this kid is out doing him and he can only get better. 

I think Jorge is frustrated, but the Yamaha is second best at the moment.  The Honda has more straight line speed, better braking, and can stuff into a corner and shoot out while the Yamaha has to take wide, sometimes deep, sweeping lines to keep up lap pace.  Despite the Yamaha struggling slightly with the Honda, Jorge is still right there up his ass..... and that's with the 3 races dealing with the collarbone.

pedrosa had the pace to pass lorenzo and lead the race. he goes well at aragon.



if you read the posts above, you'll see that marquez ripped pedrosa's rear wheel speed sensor off while attempting his pass.

pedrosa always has the pace at the beginning but can't keep it to beat Jorge, but by then he's held up MM so long the race is lost.

MM just needs to practice his starts so he can leave Pedronumnutscan'thandlethepowersa at the starting line

Good race, especially the battle for 3rd.  [thumbsup]

Too bad for Pedrobot. That guy has some crappy luck. I think he had the pace to get JLo.

Impressive race by MM as well, although eventually he's going to run into the back of someone. He's come within millimeters in several races now.

point of correction....while trying to avoid fudgepacking Pedrosagoflyinglikeaskyshotwithnotractioncontrol because he was too hot going into the turn and left not enough of a safety margin for error....

maybe if pedro could go faster than marc he wouldn't have had this little issue.



ever watch nori haga race?  that guy lived 2 millimeters from the guy in front of him, lap after lap after lap.  well, up until 2009 anyway.

Nori didn't seem as much on the edge of out of control doing it though....the only time I can recall that it bit him I think was when he was on the Santander Yamaha R1 in '08? duking it out with Kagayama on the Gixxer and Kagayama slid the rear and both crashed IIRC

And of course running into birds.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/marquez-and-pedrosa-clash/ (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/marquez-and-pedrosa-clash/)

Take away 2 points, start him from the back and light the fuse. it will be the most interesting race in years. The announcers will spend more time keeping track of whom he passes than on Lorenzo gaping the field at the front.

Exactly!

Just like when he forgot to put the bike in gear at the start of one of the Moto2 races. 

I don't see a penalty being warranted from this instance. This is racing...the point is to win. No one wins without riding on the edge. It would be a non-issue if HRC had protected that cable, or programmed their ecu differently.

The only reason to penalize in this situation is b/c its part of a pattern of riding by Marquez.  He has been really lucky this year not to crash and not to cause a serious incident.  Marquez has a history, both in Moto2 and in MotoGP, albeit one that is getting better and better.  That said, the points system is supposed to be how to deal with someone who has enough small incidents to qualify as having a history.  So, unless he did anything particularly wrong in this instance, he shouldn't be penalized.  But it would be fun to watch him start from the back.  In fact, let's get rid of qualifying entirely and have the grid set randomly.  That be awesome.  Then we should arm them all with lances.  Hellz yeah.   [evil]

As for Pedrosa's claim that Marquez is always riding in the limit, THAT'S THE POINT OF RACING, YOU make the beast with two backsIN' PUSSY!!

or if pedrospeedbumpassa could go faster

Maybe. The 'bot did pass MM a short while before. It is possible that he was faster than MM in some corners, and slower in others. That is very common. It's pretty rare someone is faster everywhere.

That said, MM was going to get him eventually...from sheer will if nothing else.

Rossi's suggestion at least made me smile:

"I was behind, but even if I saw it, I think Marquez should be penalized for two or three seasons, so it would be easier," Rossi said, with a laugh.

Pedro has a point in a way.  MM crosses the limit more often than most riders, but has gotten away with it so far.  He has narrowly avoided some rear end torpedoes and luckily eats all his crashes in practice.  Ask Casey about that style.  You are either the unbeatable God of racing with that style or you go home.  Its great for the series and us fans, but I'm sure there will be some head scratching crashes/incidents during the years to come.

I find it amusing how the same people that said Marco was on the ragged edge and a danger to everyone around him are lauding Marquez for the exact same riding style.  [cheeky]

The difference is that Sic looked like Sideshow Bob. Actually, Marco did take out a few guys before learning that his style was not necessarily the best. As of right now, MM didn't take anyone out per say, the Turd highsided after his bike decided to go Hulk because of the missing sensor.

Yeah...that had nothing to do with Marquez...at all...  [roll]

He is the golden child. Your rolling eyes are irrelevant. And this is really the first incident Sic had quite a few. Bautista has been more dangerous than MM this year. Why are we not screaming for him to be penalized? Because they were all race incidents.

i don't understand it when anyone gets upset when MM, or anyone in GP, makes contact, makes a hole out of an inch, whatever.  first of all we almost never hear this complaining when it happens in wsbk (every race).  second, if they go over the line, they get penalized.  fair 'enough.  that's what race direction is for.

this is RACING, not water ballet.  the sport desperately needed MM.  not everyone is good enough to pull it off [bautista], so then they're just dangerous -- that's different.  maybe a lot of ppl started watching in 2007, when the bikes dictated a processional?  rubbin' is racin' fellas.

and a clutch lever catching a wire in just the wrong way is hardly torpedoing the guy.  it was a fluke byproduct of having the balls to make a pass. 

MM will soon become the first to win in his rookie year since 1978.  pedro has been on god's bike for 8 years, zero titles.  i have huge respect for him WRT to how tough he is, but MM fast and skilled he is not.  outta the way pal.
 

^^

Exactly!

well said

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/marquez-and-pedrosa-clash/ (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/marquez-and-pedrosa-clash/)

?!?!?! derbying the link that you already posted here -> http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65340.msg1206525#msg1206525 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65340.msg1206525#msg1206525) 

?!?!?!

Not enough coffee methinks... ;D

I certainly hope it is that and not some onset of old fartness or something bizarre like that...

Soooo...

Are they going to make a rule against racing?

“Yes, it could lead to changes - I would not deny that. As we all know, we care very much for the safety of the riders and in this case it is very clear that an incident has taken place, but at the same time something has not worked as it should have because it is not normal to have a crash like that.”

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/javier+alonso+on+MarquezPedrosa+incident (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/javier+alonso+on+MarquezPedrosa+incident)

tis a double edged sword indeed!

yes definitely it :).  actually i got to that article a different route this time so i completely forgot about mentioning it the first time.  and it was pre-7am...  carry on.

changes... like a wheel sensor cable cover.  i'm really interested to hear what they say in sepang, since a 'hearing' on this topic seems really odd.

By this article I take that Race Direction might ask the teams to rework the SW so that TC doesn't just default to "get the make the beast with two backs off my back you make the beast with two backsing midget".

That would be too logical.

They should definitely hold a hearing.  I propose the first question--

To  HRC:  for a program that otherwise really has their shit together, why did you let a lobotomized monkey design your TC and rear wheel sensor set-up??

I suspect they will say something to the effect to MM and Dani, that they are ruling it a racing incident, but that MM should heed this as a warning due to the levels of closeness of/for contact with other riders, and therefore should consider himself on notice that should he make contact with another rider that causes a crash, he will be assessed points on his racing liscence. They will then bring it to the attention of DORNA to address with the MSMA to rethink their failsafe modes for their traction systems and use HRC as a prime reference.

or they dock him 2 points again.

which would be interesting, since if they did that and then george wins all 4 remaining races (unlikely) + MM finishes third in all 4 (also unlikely), then they'd come out equal on points and jorge would be champ based on wins.  without the 2 point minus, MM would still win by 2.

but i don't think any of that'll happen.  MM will be champ.

Like a boss.

I thought it was like points on your license....

I thought so too...

not championship points.

my understanding as well. Lose so many license points and you have to start from the back of the grid.

So why did JL Look back during the race? BBC guy thought it was a tactic to let him pass and save his tyres.  What do you think?

I think JL was riding his ass off and it still wasn't enough.  He saw that MM had made up the entire gap, let him pass and wanted to see if he could stick with him.  If you let MM sit there, he will make a last lap pass anyway.  You might as well let him go, try to stick with him, and make the move yourself. 

from the outside ( because who can predict what the racer thinks inside his helmet) we know Jorge to be calculating and metronomic and MM to be on the ragged edge and rather unpredictable...so perhaps he wanted to follow this thought process somewhat suggested by Jester and remove a variable as he saw it...perhaps he was looking to see if it was MM and Pedro...saw it was just MM and made that snap decision so that he could be more precise in managing the remainder of his race so that he could calculate his moves for the endgame.

Ya, I think JLo let MM past, figuring he'd do the last corner pass for the win this time. Didn't quite work out for him though.

oh yeah?  must be then.  i've never looked into it.

weird rule.

http://plus.autosport.com/free/feature/5599/toby-moody-marquez-isnt-dirty/ (http://plus.autosport.com/free/feature/5599/toby-moody-marquez-isnt-dirty/)

No secret Toby is in Marquez' corner.

The kid is the real deal.

I originally thought he'd be a loose cannon...

but he isn't.

He's more amazing than all the rest of those lunatics. [thumbsup]

+1

It will be interesting to see what the race direction will decide on Thursday about the incident between Marquez and Pedrosa.

I didn't want to be the first to admit the same thing but since you've let the cat out the bag...


I find myself silently cheering the kid on  :-X

I cheer him on loudly! The kid is definitely the next big thing. We all thought that it was Lorenzo's time to dominate.

+1 The kid is awesome. He's on a great bike...sure. But if Pedrobot was up to MM's stuff he'd be winning races too on the same scooter. But he's not. Again, the kid's the real deal. Never, ever thought he'd rock M-GP the way he has. But he has. His hype coming in was like Lorenzo's. But as good as JL is the kid is living up to the hype. Shit, I thought KR, Sr. was a game changer in '78... which he was! This kiddo is the next game changer. [thumbsup] [Dolph] [bacon]

What would be really cool would be to see a 2 up match race between the best aliens on the same scooter. Give them a POS like the Duc and let them go at it. Fun stuff for sure. Either way, the kid will be champ. Game over. [wine]

Just read news from Motogp that Marquez got penalized 1 point for the race incident
"@MotoGP: Marquez gets 1 penalty point for the Aragon GP clash with Pedrosa and doesn't score any Constructors Championship points for this race"

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2013/10/10/marc_marquez_given_1_penalty_point_for_a.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2013/10/10/marc_marquez_given_1_penalty_point_for_a.html)

actually 'ab' - Honda is stripped of the 25 championship constructor points that Marquez would have scored for them, and is instead only awarded the points for Bautista's finish

Yup...they've done it.

A rule against racing. [bang]

Interesting health and safety message sent to Honda in there by the penalty. Interesting how the system previously caused concern, but Honda weren't made to fix it til now.

A single point is a warning to the kid, but wont hurt his championship unless he does it again. Not sure what I think about it, it was only a touch. Spose they want to warn him.

It seems a bit nanny state/pc. The kid was just trying hard. They must have been on the edge of lining MM up for a warning for awhile, and feel like they need to be seen to be doing something.
It appears a little precious, especially after seeing the film " Rush" the other day which reminded me of how far safety has progressed.

Not really. The 1 point to MM's license doesn't affect him, other than to remind him that he should ride as responsible as possible. They basically admitted that the 1 point takes into account the whole season and him doing a couple of questionable things (he is a rookie).

The 25 points to HRC has nothing to do with MM, but is a way to get them to fix the 2 problems with their bike's safety systems that were exposed by this incident.

yup...and they aren't appealing that either....

Fortunately, the "point" against Marquez means absolutely nothing as he would need 608720938529085029867890275690286 points to be forced to start from the rear of the pack.

In other news, motorcycle racing has some dangers.  [roll]

Just saw the complete press release, they also tagged Cortese for 1 point for his contact with DeAngelis, which resulted in DeAngelis crashing.

I think they're trying to make a point that a little bump and grind is OK, but knocking someone down is not.
I agree with that.

Press conference was pure gold.....

Excerpt from Lorenzo's comments (he's really good at playing the straight man with no facial expression or tone revealing the sarcasm):

For me one point on the licence is unfair. For me the right thing is to put one point more in the championship, because like this the other riders in Moto3 and Moto2 can take example from this riding style and they can do the same.

We can have a better show in our sport because the safety of the riders doesn't matter so much, the important thing is the spectators enjoy the show.

The Jerez action was a great show, looking at the marshals [scattering] like chickens in Silverstone was a great show. In Laguna Seca he overtook Valentino outside of the track, it was a great show. So they should provide an incentive for these types of actions.

It did appear to get Marquez's attention, but I think it will only harden his resolve to crush Lorenzo on the track.

JLo is such a whiner. Geez.  [roll]

Marc didn't knock Dani down.

The bullshit setup that HRC had with the TC did. ;)

Agreed, absolutely.

His prior 'bad acts' are getting lumped in with this, to try to get him to be a bit more careful.

And I think they're trying to draw a clear line in the sand for all, especially Moto2 and Moto3.

Are they going back to Moto 2?

I've watched every race this year. The kid hasn't done much...other than be waaay faster...and definitely closer to the limit...

to warrant any sanctions. He isn't the loose cannon we all thought he'd be.

He is one of the few real 'racers' out there.
Dorna, the FIM, and all the other political entities involved should be careful what they wish for.

bingo.



and jlo can suck it.  he's going to pick THAT event to suddenly be a dick?  he sounds like a 13yr old girl.  asshat.

The Eurosport commentators mentioned during the FP2 broadcast that while they understood the reasoning for the point against Marquez that it almost seemed that race direction trying to compensate for the really weak penalty of only 2 points for Marquez' transgression at Silverstone where he very well could have killed people by being past the limit under yellow flag conditions. The thing with Dani was a fluke that couldn't be reproduced if you tried to make it happen, and wasn't worthy of a sanction.

I think I agree with that assessment.

They need to develop some consistency and apply it to everyone in all classes.

Superbike Planet has a poll on the subject up at:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=mm931010 (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=mm931010)

I picked #4.  [popcorn]

#3 for me...

why can't i pick 2, 3, and 4

Email Dean and ask him direct

anything but #1

It seems many people are still bitter about 2006.

[laugh]

well, to me, not that I am bitter, but that was pretty flagrant disregard and a clear sign that the show was more important than safety....

Everyone, that did not live in the US at the time, wanted Rossi to win that year anyway.

Huh? 2006 was nothing more than a rookie making a rookie mistake IMO. Pedro just went in too hot, lost the front, and took out Hayden. It upset Hayden fans because of the championship implications, but it wasn't all that uncommon of an accident. Simoncelli did way worse in his GP career. The only issue is that Pedro should have known better given the championship circumstances.

Checa (i.e., respected veteran racer) did the EXACT same thing to Neukirchner (sp?) right around the same time in WSBK, and no one said much of anything...even though the actual consequences for Max were much higher than Hayden.

You went way back for this one...

 [laugh] Ya...for whatever reason I remember that accident. I just couldn't believe Checa attemped that pass!

He must have seen an opening... :P

yes.  he just screwed up, there's nothing more to it.

Yes, but no one likes Biaggi so that makes it ok :P haha

You're not wrong, but we're not talking about that Max. ;D