Ducati Monster Forum

I was reading an article about it and now I can't find it. Apparently the pressure from Phillips Morris was too much and in the article they mentioned that the bike that they will see in Sepang on 2014 will be completely different than the GP13. Considering they hired some BMW engineers, they might be fielding an S1000RR in Ducati fairings.

I think they said the GP13.5 will debut, using parts of the GP14

to me, if that's true, the gp14 can't be that different.

Page 24

http://cyclenews.uberflip.com/i/172722 (http://cyclenews.uberflip.com/i/172722)

Significant new bits at Valencia, new bike at 2014 first test.

What he said, anyway....

Another report on the same news:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Sep/130926oo-2wsx.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Sep/130926oo-2wsx.htm)

And because it's supposedly going to be all new everything with the GP14, I wouldn't be surprised to see Cal & Dovi struggling to crack the top ten early next season, in contrast to Nicky & Dovi's stranglehold on 8th & 9th. If it works, though, Gobmeier's promised revolution just might lead them out of that wilderness toward the end of 2014...

and Nicky will be laughing all the way to the top 5 with a new Aprilia

This is where the Audi buyout wilk help.   Audi wants to tweak BMWs nose in a big way.

Moving Ducati to win in gp and sbk does that...

LOL, in WSBK.. come on. did you see the results over the season so far.

Exactly.  Aprilia and Bmw all over.  Audi just completed the sale this year...

You won't see anything new in WSBK for at least 2 more years. Simply speaking Audi might gain something next year in MotoGP, but that's futile considering Tiz' comment above. They really only care about shoving it up BMW's ass.

Aprilia did considerably better their 1st year in WSBK than Ducati has done this season with the 1199. Biaggi finished 4th in 2009 (the debut year), and won the championship the following season. The 1199 appears to be outgunned until the series adopts more Superstock-like rules.

BMW struggled due to electronic issues, and their insistence on developing their own system. Hopefully Audi doesn't also bring that German stubborness with them!

I'm still skeptical that Audi can fix the GP bike, and even if they do I don't think they have a rider than can win races. Dovi never won while on a Honda, and Cal crashes too much. I like both riders, but I don't see either of them beating JLo, MM, or Pedro, no matter what they're riding. I think the best they can do is fight for a top 5 position. Being able to do that may attract better riders though.

The current Ducati line-up are all excellent test riders. When they know they have a winner, then they'll spend the money to attract the aliens.

well it's not as if Apriia didn't come with a LOT of motorcycle racing experience behind them.  BMW, not so much.  and re ducati, you need to have a bike as well sorted as the 1198 + have bayliss or checa on it to beat the 4-cylinder machines.  it's nice that they're so stubborn about the twin but if the rules hadn't been dialed back (soon) in order to create space between wsbk and GP, the ducati was probably done winning in sbk. 
 

Agreed. I still don't know why they haven't built a V4 SBK.

because they market the L twin, desmo design as their primary raison d'etre

which is silly, i think as i look at my 1978 Ducati GTL

when the got rid of the trellis with the 1199, they could have jumped ship then with the new engine design, and gone full force into the D16 era.

it was a half measure and I think it's going to burn down their wsbk race program.

+1

agree as well.  but making a 4-cylinder street bike that they produce en masse, since that's what they'd have to do, well, might as well change the name of the company.

and then they'd still get their asses handed to them for a few years since clearly their track record with 4s is stellar.

Might as well buy MV Agusta.

A V4 street SBK still is a bit different than an in-line 4. Only Aprilia makes one currently...a company that also primarily made twins, and they seemed to do well with it.

I like twins and all (especially for street bikes), but it appears their days are numbered in SBK racing.

Isn't it basic engineering?  Twins suck for racing unless they are racing against other twins.  V4 does not suck for racing and neither does I-4.  Unless you have rules that make up for twins deficiencies (and a boatload of $ to keep those big twins from exploding), they can't compete.  And it's hard to get the rules right so that you don't weigh too much in favor or too much against a twin.

I don't know that changing to a v4 SBK would make Ducati any different.  I used to think that the trellis frame, dry clutch and twins were sacrosanct.  But change happens. <shrug>

Maybe they should look at 16v twins. (Honda NSR style oval pistons)

Here's the problem with twins in racing as I see it (and any of you all can correct me if you'd like, as I'm sure you will  [laugh]):

Twins disadvantage is they are inherently down on power to 4 cylinders. Their advantage is their power delivery is in inherently easier on tires (and a kind of built in traction control) and they have more torque to get better drive out of corners. These two things mostly offset their power issue, as they can drive harder out of corners and keep a higher pace over race distance.

Four cylinders advantage is they make more power so are faster on any straight section of track. Their disadvantage is they deliver that power in constant fashion to the rear tire (you can actually feel this riding a twin back to back with an I-4), which eats tires and will more easily highside the rider if they try to get a big drive out of a corner. The result is diminishing pace over race distance, and less drive out of corners.

Prior to electronics these adantages/disadvantages largely offset each other. Some tracks favored fours, while others twins.

Electronics have now fixed the four cylinders disadvantages. For instance, they reduce the number of working cylinders on corner exit so it acts more like a twin (BMW does this for sure), so better drive and better tire wear and also full power on straights. The problem for twins is while the electronics can fix the four cylinder's inherent shortcomings, they can't give the twin more power.

Twins also seem to grenade with a frequency that 4 cylinders don't seem to.  To really hop up a twin requires a really costly maintenance schedule.  It might just be that in order to compete, twins need to be hopped up way more than 4 cylinders, which leads to more blown engines, cases, etc.

(yes, I know that Aprilia went through 28 engines or sumptin' when Max won). 

The Ape started down on power to the 4s in stock form though, explaining the motor changes as they've had to really build it to win in WSBK. I think the lower HP is just an issue with the current iteration of that motor, not with V4s in general. Aprilia is supposedly fixing it next year.

The I4s are friggin' stupid now. My motor builder said he has seen a new ZX-10 lay down 200 hp at the wheel...with only a map and exhaust!  :o

well, the "Evo" class rules may level some of the unparity of electronics for the engine configurations as JJJ stated...

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp/gigi-dall-inga-ducati-aprilia-motogp-wsbk/#more-48114 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp/gigi-dall-inga-ducati-aprilia-motogp-wsbk/#more-48114)

1st) it will take several years before the effect of Gigi's changes will trickle from GP to the WSBK program IMHO

2nd) it will take at least half of 2014 GP season to see measurable results from Gigi on the GP14 machine IMHO

that is a logical statement but i wouldn't be surprised if you're wrong.

it wouldn't displease me to be wrong...but knowing how they have to fabricate and design and test and analyze data and everything else...the GP13.5 to be debuted at Sepang post season won't be as much as an advance to the GP14...where I expect to see things really change is when the GP14.5 comes about....

all done, he's on the duc team now....

http://motomatters.com/press_release/2013/10/10/ducati_press_release_gigi_dall_igna_to_r.html (http://motomatters.com/press_release/2013/10/10/ducati_press_release_gigi_dall_igna_to_r.html)

derby

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=63533.msg1208510#msg1208510 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=63533.msg1208510#msg1208510)