A few months prior to lm's father passing away, he got involved with this lady who used to cut his hair.
He was 82 she was 65ish.
A few weeks into their relationship, he loaned her 30k based on some story she gave him about her needing to help her daughter out.
All signs pointed toward her using him for cash.
It took him a few months to see it, but eventually he saw in her what we saw, and their relationship ended.
She had been paying him back. All very random. Different dollar amounts and at different times.
The money he loaned to her came out of his trust account.
After Dad passed away, she continued to pay back the trust. Still very random.
After awhile, she quit paying altogether . lm and her sister sent her a notice that she still owed money to the trust.
The barber lady (here after being referred to a douchebag lady or dbl) went to a free legal outfit that typed up a response to lms letter, which basically says, " yeah, I borrowed money, but I can only pay it back two hundred dollars a month, on the 15th of every month.
dbl followed through with sending in checks of 200 dollars at random time during the month, usually past the 15th.
Just recently (about 6 months ago) she quit sending anything.
lm typed up another failure to pay notice, and dbl responded by sending in a check for 100 bucks (about two months late)
lm sent the check back to her, with a letter stating that it was not the agreed to amount, and to please pay the 200 that she and her free legal advice person stated she would pay.
It's been about 4 months since then, and we have yet to hear from her. The last time lm spoke to dbl on the phone, she claimed the money was a gift from dad and that she didn't need to repay it.
We gathered up the necessary paperwork to take her to court, but when we went to turn it in today, there is some question from the county's side of things as to whether or not lm and her sister (both co-executors of Dads trust) are legally able to sue dbl, and that we may have to lawyer up.
IMO..it should be an easy case to prove and no lawyer should be necessary. We have a document in Dads own writing stating that it was a loan, and most importantly, the letter her free legal person sent to us stating that it was a loan, but that she could only pay 200 bucks. as proof that it was a loan.
Other than telling me dbl should be run through a wood chipper, is there any other avenue we should be looking at to get her to pay.
She currently owes a tad bit over 20k.
I hate to be a pessimist but unless you want to hound DBL for the rest of your life, I would eat the loss. Because it will take the rest of your life to recover the extra $20k at $200 a month from a deadbeat like this. And that isn't easy for me to say. $20k is a shit ton of money. But- maybe there's a way to sell the obligation to a debt collection agency, maybe there's a way to garnish her wages, but that money is basically as gone as a very gone thing. If this person is as shifty as you you describe she is probably just going to declare bankruptcy or skip town to get out from under the obligation the minute a judgement goes against her. [bang]
to be honest...it's less about money, and more about punishing a evil person who took advantage of an old man.
Wood chipper! [evil]
We have both an industrial compost mixing machine and a backhoe on the property. I am always open to helping a fellow DMF fella out!
All jokes aside good luck getting her to pay. It sounds like she is a broke ass DBL and with no assets. As such there is little to no way to make her pay back the trust. Damn too bad your grandpa paid so much cash for a 65 year old. He could'a gotten something much nicer to look at for that kinda cash......
Seriously I am sorry to hear of the issue. What a DBL.
I'll +1 on selling to a debt collector.
Take the money and use it to mail her a box of poop once every few weeks.
Quote from: Monsterlover on October 22, 2013, 04:37:45 PM
I'll +1 on selling to a debt collector.
Take the money and use it to mail her a box of poop once every few weeks.
While I love this idea, mailing feces to anyone is a little bit illegal. It would be better to find out her place of residence/work and pay a hobo to defecate on her porch, car, place of business, small toy dog...
Quote from: bobspapa on October 22, 2013, 02:51:56 PM
to be honest...it's less about money, and more about punishing a evil person who took advantage of an old man.
Be careful here, though. The pursuit of punishment may end up costing you so much time and frustration that it hardly becomes worth the reward of her having to pay. Living in NYC, I've learned that sometimes you just have to let *holes win, if only to avoid a lifetime of frustrating justice-seeking.
That said, if the debt collector option is real, I'm in favor.
we found out late yesterday that lm and her sister can sue the hag as co trustees, so that's a start.
The legal options are tricky, they had no memorial of the agreement/loan.
Generally speaking, a writing is required to satisfy what is known as the Statute of Frauds and it sounds like this situation would apply since there was no intent to pay back the debt within a year.
That being said, you got her to acknowledge the debt in the letter she sent to you, which means you have SOME memorial of the debt. Hopefully in your letters to her you referenced the original loan amount and her promise to pay it back. If she did not dispute it in her reply, it is essentially ratification of your claim.
If it goes to court, the best you may get is an enforceable order to pay at the amount she said in the letter -- because she offered that and you accepted it, so the court may say if it was good enough then, it's good enough now.
Bad news is you'll have to pay an attorney to do this and it won't be free. It might be a shoo-in because of the documentation and I doubt she will lawyer up though.
Hire a PI to find out what assets she has, so you'll know if it is worth your time and money to pursue a suit.
Getting a judgement is 1/4 of the battle. The other 3/4 is actually collecting on the judgement.
As others have said, it is probably more cost effective to sell the debt to a collector and be satisfied with the credit score hit and collector harrassment as punishment.
Quote from: Drjones on October 23, 2013, 10:02:04 AM
Hire a PI to find out what assets she has, so you'll know if it is worth your time and money to pursue a suit.
Getting a judgement is 1/4 of the battle. The other 3/4 is actually collecting on the judgement.
As others have said, it is probably more cost effective to sell the debt to a collector and be satisfied with the credit score hit and collector harrassment as punishment.
It depends. If she has any bank accounts, a judgement presented to a bank will freeze her account. That makes it easy.
Quote from: ZILBERT on October 23, 2013, 06:18:04 AM
While I love this idea, mailing feces to anyone is a little bit illegal.
Are you sure? I don't remember seeing feces on the poster of items not allowed to be mailed on display at the Post Office.
Quote from: The Architect on October 23, 2013, 11:28:19 AM
Are you sure? I don't remember seeing feces on the poster of items not allowed to be mailed on display at the Post Office.
I seem to recall the legality of mailing feces came up on here when Bobspapa found and posted the link of the company that would mail animal fecal matter to people on your behalf without naming you.
^ Yep.
Total buzzkill.
hairstylist? if she is a cash business, there may be little or no money visible to garnish wages/ freeze accounts.
hassle factor > $$ value IMO,... unless you can sell the debt somehow.
Quote from: The Architect on October 23, 2013, 11:28:19 AM
Are you sure? I don't remember seeing feces on the poster of items not allowed to be mailed on display at the Post Office.
HAHAHHAH!!!!! [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: herm on October 23, 2013, 06:58:35 PM
hairstylist? if she is a cash business, there may be little or no money visible to garnish wages/ freeze accounts.
hassle factor > $$ value IMO,... unless you can sell the debt somehow.
people widely use credit cards for hair stylists. when i was shopping for credit processing services, one of the companies provided me with literature as to the number of charges and hair stylists are in the top 10 "brick and mortar" retail businesses in terms of number of charges per day.
it's very hard for people to own a business like that without having a bank account.
Easy for me to say, since I'm a detached observer, but based only on my own experiences, I think it's better to grow out of it being more about punishing an evil person mode and get into the practical side of it just being about getting your Dad's money back.
In my case it's too easy to get obsessed with "justice" and it has real negative effects on my own daily life. Of course, you may have this more under control and not so personally affected by it.
Quote from: bobspapa on October 22, 2013, 02:51:56 PM
to be honest...it's less about money, and more about punishing a evil person who took advantage of an old man.
Quote from: Langanobob on October 24, 2013, 06:19:33 AM
Easy for me to say, since I'm a detached observer, but based only on my own experiences, I think it's better to grow out of it being more about punishing an evil person mode and get into the practical side of it just being about getting your Dad's money back.
In my case it's too easy to get obsessed with "justice" and it has real negative effects on my own daily life. Of course, you may have this more under control and not so personally affected by it.
yeah, that's good advice.
practical = get money back
justice = burn down her house
stick with practical.