So... Mid ride, my 1999 M750 (carbed, not injected) just cut off, dash lights and all other lights as well. I pulled up to a stop, pulled in the clutch and it died, all lights went too, not just the motor. Rolled it to a parking lot, checked the basics (battery connections and similar) and turned the switch on, all lights, and it started. However starting involved holding the starter and as it started to spin, hung up like a weak battery, and finally finished the spin and started. It idled fine for a few seconds then all died again, including dash & headlights. Got it started once more with the same sluggish motor spin. and that was it, it died, and nothing more. Tried to start if off C's car when she picked me up, but nothing. Went home got the truck and trucked it home.
Battery checked out good at Auto Parts on their little tester thing that does the basic voltage and load testing.
I did a lot of reading looking for similar issues. I checked what I found. The engine (by breather) to frame (by rearset) ground had come loose. Reattached it, still nothing.
Looked for the obvious stuff, main fuse, ignition fuse etc. All checked out.
Currently - Waiting on the battery to be 100% charged off C's bike as it is much smaller than the Monster's batter.
Possible good news? Duc's battery doesn't even click the relay under the seat (main relay?) when the switch is turned on while the Hawk's low battery a least has the relay click and make noise.
So... Bad battery? Read about checking the various relays, but that will have to wait until tomorrow as the battery is dead in my multimeter and it's a weird battery that I don't have around the house.
Other things that are common "NOTHING when you turn the key" red flags I should check in the meantime without the meter?
Thanks
JM
Does the Hawk battery work the lights?
dp - No, just checked with a fully charged batter from the Hawk. Nothing. No dash or head/tail lights.
Update: Fully charged battery that is good (starts the Hawk GT every time without fail) makes the relay under the seat click but nothing more. No dash lights, no head/tail light etc. Another point eliminated.
Test relay under the seat?
Ignition switch?
Starter & solenoid?
JM
I'm thinking relay.
Just cause the coil clicks doesn't necessarily mean a connection.
You might be able to pull the cover and clean the contacts.
If not, it's just a 30 amp relay. Bosch makes the exact same thing for driving/fog lamps.
Thanks. I'll check on that tomorrow and post results. AFAIK, this is the original relay on this bike (Ducati part number & Made in Italy stamped on it) so that makes it nearly 14 years almost 40,000 miles old. Also, it seems I had been riding with a loose motor to frame ground.
JM
Remove relay. Jump 30 and 87. If the bike powers up and starts it is probably the relay. To confirm make sure there is power at terminal 87 and 86 is grounded.
Thanks Howie! Will do.
JM
I tried to jump 87 to 30 and still no lights/headlight
So, only working with a test light (still hunting battery for meter) that shows 5V, 12V and 12.5V. Battery gives a green light (12.5V across the poles, so the tester is at least somewhat useful.
If I put the positive probe on 87 and the ground clip on the frame or motor etc, I get a 5V light.
If move the ground clip to 86, I get no light at all.
1. Shouldn't I see more than 5V on 87?
2. Getting no light across 87 to 86 means ground problem?
Thanks,
JM
What voltage between 30 and ground?
Do you have a wiring diagram?
No reading between 30 and ground.
No actual diagram, but I am looking at a good parts fiche that shows the routing of the wires and locations of various connections and fuses. I'm going to also check the battery box ground as it looks to be rather oxidized.
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on November 11, 2013, 07:06:38 AM
No reading between 30 and ground.
No actual diagram, but I am looking at a good parts fiche that shows the routing of the wires and locations of various connections and fuses. I'm going to also check the battery box ground as it looks to be rather oxidized.
JM
I was going to suggest that you check under the box.
I have the wiring diagram from my 96 if you want it...should be the same.
The fiche is doing a pretty good job, but if you want to post it, it would be good to have.
More checks, using battery negative terminal as ground:
12.5V at 30 amp fuse terminal in box
12.5V at main fuse terminal (the one right by the coils)
5V to ignition fuse terminal
I'm suspecting my ground cable from the battery to under the box.
Pos. battery terminal to neg. battery terminal: 12.5V
Pos. battery terminal to other end of ground wife: 5V
Cleaned ground wire contact, got a flickering 12.0V to 12.5V from pos. terminal to end of ground wire. I might just replaced that little bit of ground wire. It's got a tiny exposed section near the battery terminal and it is white from corrosion.
JM
Solution!
I replaced the piece of ground wire from the battery negative terminal to where it bolts to the frame. That fixed the entire problem.
JM
Sweet.
[thumbsup]
FYI - Let me add a couple things that may help people in the future:
When/how problem occurred: I had ridden a few miles after having a difficult time starting a bike. It was showing symptoms of a weak battery, so I jumped it off and it seemed ok, but didn't want to idle well. It started back, after a couple stops, but still acted like the battery was weak. It had also been very slow lately when starting, like it always had a weak battery, despite being on the Tender quite a bit.
Rode away from last stop, and it died when I pulled the clutch in at a stop sign not 50 feet away. Dash lit up after a few seconds of fiddling (thinking loose connection etc) so I attempted to ride off, died again. The relay under the seat was making strange noises, but wouldn't actually power up the bike.
Voltage read good on the battery, and at most 'hot' places between the battery and the ignition switch. I cleaned the ground connection where the battery connected to the frame under the air box a couple different times. Got battery voltage there after cleaning. Replaced relay under the seat. Still no power.
Made a new batter to frame ground from 8GA wire. Took old one off, put new one one. Dash lit up, starter super easily. Wasn't the relay, it works with the new or old relay. It was 100% that ground wire that had simply degraded. I bet if I had a proper multimeter, it would show some pretty high resistance.
JM
I guess ground cable are for bikes, what network cables are for networks.
Lot's of headaches, for a $5 part ;D
A quick "how To" on diagnosing this problem. Take your voltmeter and place positive on a good engine ground like a bolt that holds the starter in place and the negative to the negative terminal on the battery. Turn ignition on and hit the starter button. If you read more than .5 volt you have a bad ground. Pinpoint the problem by doing the same over each connection and wire. Any reading over2 volts needs attention.
Doh! Should be over .2 volts.
Thanks for the diagnosing method Howie!
JM
Quote from: howie on November 13, 2013, 10:15:54 AM
A quick "how To" on diagnosing this problem. Take your voltmeter and place positive on a good engine ground like a bolt that holds the starter in place and the negative to the negative terminal on the battery. Turn ignition on and hit the starter button. If you read more than .5 volt you have a bad ground. Pinpoint the problem by doing the same over each connection and wire. Any reading over2 volts needs attention.
Doh! Should be over .2 volts.
What setting on the multimeter? Just DC volts?
That's my assumption.
JM
Quote from: ChrisK on November 14, 2013, 09:00:05 AM
What setting on the multimeter? Just DC volts?
Yes, DC volts.