I tried looking through theforum with the search function but couldn't quite find what I was looking for.
I just put new DucaBike clutch plates in my clutch. Made a huge difference! But now when I come to a stop, I cant find neutral. Is this a problem directly related to putting new plates in? Or do I need to bleed the clutch slave? lastly...should I end up with a friction plate or a steel last? Forgot what it was before [bang] TIA
I would start with bleeding the clutch to make sure the lever is putting enough pressure on the rod.
According to the Snyder manual I have, there should be two steel plates closest to the engine casing, and if you are only using one curved plate, it goes in the middle of the stack.
JM
+1 to bleeding the clutch -start there.
The new plate stack is thicker/taller than you old one and your trouble getting neutral is due to that. What's happening is that you're not able to disengage the clutch 100% which makes getting neutral while the bike is sitting still a real PITA. I bet if you tried to get neutral while the bike is moving slowly, it'd slot in much more easily.
So bleeding the clutch may solve the issue if you had some air in the system that's cutting back how far the slave moves just that tiny amount you need. Also ensure you don't have too much lever free play. Too much removes some capacity to push fluid to the slave.
If bleeding and checking the freeplay doesn't help you'll need to reduce the height of the stack a tiny bit. Some sets come with a thicker steel or two that you could sub out for thinner ones from your older clutch.
Different packs will have different placement for the curved or similar plate - did the plate set come with instructions?
No the set didn't have instructions. I didn't even notice which one was curved either...although I did look. I'm home from work on my hour lunch right now and I just took the clutch apart again. I had a friction right under the pressure plate...is this right? I originally only put one steel in the first spot because it looked larger. Now I'm second guessing and tried putting 2 in, but then my last friction plate doesn't really fit on. It definitely did go into neutral while rolling a lot easier but once I was stopped, no way. I still have it apart right now so I'm going to try and find the curved one.
It is possible it needs to wear in a bit, I remember neutral being more difficult to find on my 900SS after the new plates were in. It wasn't impossible, but you had to have a very light touch. It got better after short while though.
Still, bleed the clutch.
JM
Just got it back together. I believe the larger plate goes in by itself. The 2nd steel was the only one that looked different then the rest so I assumed it was the curved one. It went in after the first friction plate, then so on. Ended with a friction, and that was all of the plates included with the purchase. So I believe it's in correct. Will have to bleed ASAP next. Funny thing is it doesn't make nearly any racket... I.e. Clack clack clack
When I replaced the clutch on my 900SS the sound went from some serious rattle (didn't have and open cover, just the gasket taken out) to almost nothing. The new stuff can't move around as much because it hasn't worn any.
JM
Quote from: ccm900 on November 11, 2013, 12:57:29 PM
Funny thing is it doesn't make nearly any racket... I.e. Clack clack clack
That's expected - look at the outward facing teeth on the old plates - they will be battered and have a lot more play in the basket grooves than your new ones. It's that play that leads to a lot of the noise
Quote from: the_Journeyman on November 11, 2013, 01:01:28 PM
When I replaced the clutch on my 900SS the sound went from some serious rattle (didn't have and open cover, just the gasket taken out) to almost nothing. The new stuff can't move around as much because it hasn't worn any.
JM
Quote from: Slide Panda on November 11, 2013, 01:02:54 PM
That's expected - look at the outward facing teeth on the old plates - they will be battered and have a lot more play in the basket grooves than your new ones. It's that play that leads to a lot of the noise
Thats what I figured. the previous friction plates looked like hell! But they still worked! Unlike those damn barnett plates that left me stranded... [bang] If I had a stock cover it would probably not even be noticeable.
You need a steel outermost on the stack, directly under the pressure plate.
Typical good stack height for a dry clutch is 1.5".
*Usually*, the stacks are 2 steels in first, then alternating frictions and steels, finishing with a steel.
If one of the steels is dished (or other version of non-flat) it usually goes in first, followed by a flat steel.
I don't have a DucaBike stack to look at, so can't definitively say how to assemble.
Quote from: the_Journeyman on November 11, 2013, 12:45:09 PM
It is possible it needs to wear in a bit, I remember neutral being more difficult to find on my 900SS after the new plates were in. It wasn't impossible, but you had to have a very light touch. It got better after short while though.
Still, bleed the clutch.
JM
Didn't notice this earlier sorry...and yes, that probably is possible. I don't think I'm going to be able to bleed the clutch right away, probably this weekend but still, we'll see if wearing does any good and I'll report back.
Quote from: Speeddog on November 11, 2013, 01:43:16 PM
You need a steel outermost on the stack, directly under the pressure plate.
Typical good stack height for a dry clutch is 1.5".
*Usually*, the stacks are 2 steels in first, then alternating frictions and steels, finishing with a steel.
If one of the steels is dished (or other version of non-flat) it usually goes in first, followed by a flat steel.
I don't have a DucaBike stack to look at, so can't definitively say how to assemble.
I'm going to have to contact Ducabike and see what they say. As for the steel on the outside being under the pressure plate...there weren't enough included To do so...I'd have to throw on an old one. It makes me think it should have been enough with the plates supplied...back to the drawing board
Barnett have moved to one thicker steel plate on the inside. Barnett revised the pack with one fat plate instead of two. Maybe ducabike have a similar set up, leaving the extra steel plate for the outside under the pressure plate.
While its possible they left a plate out its unlikely. Is there is a thicker steel plate? If so it will most likely be the first one in. Some fit the curved plate first and some have it midpack.
Ok got confirmation. Apparently there was supposed to be instructions in the packet it was mailed in and there very well may have been but it got tossed already. Apart from that with DucaBike, they do use one larger steel that goes in first by itself. Then a friction, then the curved steel, then friction and so on ending with steel under the pressure plate. My pack was missing the last steel so I used a good looking old one. Now that I've confirmed the pack is installed correctly...neutral is still a pain to get into (which has never been a problem.) So...I'll let it wear in and see what happens. I'll give it a week or two, but definitely will bleed the clutch in the near future.
What is the thickness of that last, old, steel plate compared to the others? Is there a thinner plate among your old spares you could try?
Yeah, maybe the new pack has shown up the need for a fluid change/bleed.
is there a spring in the clutch slave behind the piston? there should be, and it is self adjusting, so it makes no difference how thick the pack is within the physical limits. pack should be 38.5mm when new.
curved steel plate can go anywhere ime. I often put it in last so I can pull it easily if I need to.
I had a 900ss that I put a new pack in which then blew the piston out of the slave due to wear on the pushrod and the slave where the rod sat. if things are worn and the piston is sticking at a certain point that can do it. maybe the bore needs a linish.
is the drum worn by the star washer causing excessive drum movement?
sometimes things are fine as long as you don't touch it. when you do it all goes pear shaped.
Quote from: koko64 on November 12, 2013, 02:16:46 PM
What is the thickness of that last, old, steel plate compared to the others? Is there a thinner plate among your old spares you could try?
Yeah, maybe the new pack has shown up the need for a fluid change/bleed.
The thickness was the same to my eye. It barely fit before with 2 plates in first but that was the wrong order. So It fit well this time and once pressure plate was on all was good.
Quote from: brad black on November 13, 2013, 04:13:27 AM
is there a spring in the clutch slave behind the piston? there should be, and it is self adjusting, so it makes no difference how thick the pack is within the physical limits. pack should be 38.5mm when new.
curved steel plate can go anywhere ime. I often put it in last so I can pull it easily if I need to.
I had a 900ss that I put a new pack in which then blew the piston out of the slave due to wear on the pushrod and the slave where the rod sat. if things are worn and the piston is sticking at a certain point that can do it. maybe the bore needs a linish.
is the drum worn by the star washer causing excessive drum movement?
sometimes things are fine as long as you don't touch it. when you do it all goes pear shaped.
I haven't taken the clutch slave off yet so I'm not sure what's going on there yet. I didn't measure the new stack either...next time (hopefully many many miles from now) I'll do it just to be sure. I'll bleed it first then see what happens. If I take it off I'm afraid things will go pear shaped lol.
The correct plate order sorted it then, cool. Glad it worked out. [thumbsup] The incorrect plate order must have put the pack out of spec.
Aftermarket plate mfrs no longer just mimic the oem plate order and develop their own solutions. The stack order will be mfr specific.
I'll have to remember that myself next time I change a set. The instruction sheet will become important. [laugh]