So, as the title says my '06 S2R is sounding different...not sure if it's my imagination, but the exauhst note seems off. and when rolling off the throttle it seems like I get some "stutter" before I roll back on..The change in sound is almost like it sound buzzy. The only thing I have touched that may have affected things is I tried to wipe out the velocity tubes (I think that's right, the funnel shaped things in the air box). I did that after reading a thread here that indicated build up by the valve that opens up to let air in when you twist the throttle (sorry it's early morning and I can not for the life of me make my brain function) may help the occasionally uneven idle issue. Anyway is it possible that while I was trying to reach down to wipe stuff out that damaged/moved something that would make the bike sound funny?
I know this highly detailed and technical report ( [laugh]) may be hard to follow, but I appreciate any effort to help .
It's highly unlikely that running some rags around the velocity stacks did anything bad.
But, your stutter comment makes me wonder - What sort of condition is your chain in? Is it properly tensioned? If a chain is too lose it can slap and clatter against the swing arm. Also an over slack chain can give you a feeling of 'lash'. If you're on the gas, the top of the chain is tight, if you coast not the top is slack and bottom is tight - if you get on the gas again, all that slack needs to be wound up again which will give a feeling of lag and stutter
Quote from: Kabulpostie on December 18, 2013, 04:01:44 AM
.......
The only thing I have touched that may have affected things is I tried to wipe out the velocity tubes (I think that's right, the funnel shaped things in the air box). I did that after reading a thread here that indicated build up by the valve that opens up to let air in when you twist the throttle (sorry it's early morning and I can not for the life of me make my brain function) may help the occasionally uneven idle issue.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=66058.msg1219588#msg1219588 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=66058.msg1219588#msg1219588)
Besides Slide Panda's chain advice, check that the parts you removed/touched are put back together correctly (airbox and filter tight?)
When was the last time you did a tune up ?
Hmm, Thinking tune up might be something to look into. I had the valves, oil, brake and clutch fluids changed/checked about five hundred miles ago, but nothing else..is there something specific I should look into?
What did they do for the valves? Check the clearances and adjust if needed?
Exactly
Hmmm. So just speculations/questions presently.
- Did they sync the throttle bodies?
- It's not acted funny until recently? IE, it was fine for a few hundred miles, then started acting up vs acting up as soon as you rode it after the shop time.
I still doubt your time in the airbox did anything. There's nothing really that you can cause harm by, unless you somehow dropped something hard, like a bolt, down the intake.
Other random speculation - bad gas. It does happen from time to time that you'll get some junk gas which causes crappy running
They didn't do anything else, not their fault, I specifically asked them to only check the valves and change the fluids. We did change spark plugs as well. It has been about 8,000 miles since the last full service. There may be an element of mechanical hypochondria, but I don't think so.
Again, I'm just flailing a bit here but
- TBs do lose sync over time
- What did they say about the valves? Anything get adjusted?
I don't remember the exact wording on my receipt, but I believe it was something along the lines of " Number two exhaust grossly out, adjusted to spec" may have that wrong, basically one valve was out and was adjusted.
I haven't noticed any performance change on my butt dynometer, it's just sound, maybe I'm nuts...
Well if an exhaust valve was way out of whack it's possible that getting it to rights would change the sound. If it wasn't closing or opening all the way it would effect the note.
Now the stuttering you reference... that I'm struggling with.
I wasn't clear on the stuttering..it is a sound from the exahst when I roll off the throttle...like gas is still being burned...guess on my part
Is it a popping? Usually a couple distinct noises?
Yes! Different than the cool sounding burbling, farting sound when you downshift and slow though.
Ok, so it burbles down, and you get a couple *pop*... *pop pop*? If so, it's probably something really simple.
Most times, a popping from the exhaust during deceleration is due a leak at some joint in the headers. The leak lets some air into the exhaust stream and lets a bit of secondary combustion occur. I had this happen on my old 620 - it got lose where a slip on met the main header and would let off a *pop!* *pop pop ppppp* as the engine spooled down
So go through the bike, loose any connections down stream of the spot where the headers meet the head !Don't loosen that header to head connection if you don't have to! - Give them a good wiggle and ensure the various sections of tubing seat as snugly and deeply as possible and tighten as you go. Working from from to back for the re-seating portion will probably make the job easier.
That makes sense, I had the tires changed and the pipes had to be removed... would that also explain a slight gas smell?
Quote from: Kabulpostie on December 19, 2013, 09:31:27 AM
I wasn't clear on the stuttering..it is a sound from the exahst when I roll off the throttle...like gas is still being burned...guess on my part
Can you do a vid clip of the sound?
If not an exhaust leak, I would check the TB.
I synced my TB and it made a huge difference. Before I could tell the exhaust notes were off between the two, and grabbed a flathead and did by tone
Quote from: Kabulpostie on December 19, 2013, 10:21:08 AM
That makes sense, I had the tires changed and the pipes had to be removed... would that also explain a slight gas smell?
Slight gas smell? probably not - any my bike always smells a touch gassy. Had a look at your plugs at all? A gassy smell *might* be from running rich. But that's a might...
You might also ensure that your tank vent lines are not pinched. The tank was probably removed to access the valves and pinching a vent hose is far from uncommon when putting a tank back
Throttle body synch should always be checked after a valve adjustment.
Quote from: DucDucGoos on December 19, 2013, 10:44:28 AM
Can you do a vid clip of the sound?
If not an exhaust leak, I would check the TB.
I synced my TB and it made a huge difference. Before I could tell the exhaust notes were off between the two, and grabbed a flathead and did by tone
Don't think I can get a vid as I only really notice it while under way..Will the location of TB be in my Snyder manual? And if I try and mess with this how bad can I screw it up? Is it just a sound thing?
Check all your ignition wiring, something could have gotten nudged loose while you were in the airbox
Quote from: Slide Panda on December 19, 2013, 10:09:51 AM
Ok, so it burbles down, and you get a couple *pop*... *pop pop*? If so, it's probably something really simple.
Most times, a popping from the exhaust during deceleration is due a leak at some joint in the headers. The leak lets some air into the exhaust stream and lets a bit of secondary combustion occur. I had this happen on my old 620 - it got lose where a slip on met the main header and would let off a *pop!* *pop pop ppppp* as the engine spooled down
So go through the bike, loose any connections down stream of the spot where the headers meet the head !Don't loosen that header to head connection if you don't have to! - Give them a good wiggle and ensure the various sections of tubing seat as snugly and deeply as possible and tighten as you go. Working from from to back for the re-seating portion will probably make the job easier.
Sorry to butt in, but I have exactly this problem. Is it a serious deal if I don't fix this right away, and ride around for a while having it do the *pop pop* thing?
Thank god I'm not the only (sorry for you though Eric :( )
So there is only one exhaust connection down stream of headers and it is tight.
Re seated all electrical connections
It just occured to me that when I had the valves done they replaced 2 spark plugs..why wouldn't you do all 4? below are pics of my plugs
Right Side (old plugs)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5490/11456904095_0732f298a7.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5536/11456953104_7f785fe5bf.jpg)
Left Side New Plugs
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5509/11456953694_d63f0afeb9.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5478/11456954554_a66329c311.jpg)
You should have more than one connection. There's the headers to the 'udder' and then the slip ons to the udder that's 4 joints to loosen shimmy and tighten.
Eric, not its not a big deal, but not normal operation either. And if there is a leak, hot exhaust gas is venting some place you might not want it to. Exhaust gas can be hot enought to melt plastic and wire insulation - so it's worth having a look.
Plugs, bit hard to see in the photos... But definitely not running particularly rich
Pipes are full termis...should i replace the two plugs that are older?
If you really want to. Though they don't seem in a hard way. Checking the gap never hurts either.
Even with full termis, you have two joints right? One for each slip-on?
Not sure if this has any thing to do with your S2R ,
sounds like what others had suggested with a leak with the slip ons
my wife's 696 does exactly that she has badly fitting Termis.
I have a 06 S2R1K 40 thou K's only a couple of months after clearances done ,tune,throttle bodies synced ,new plugs it started to run really rough at idle and low revs and sound strange like yours .
I considered taking it back and getting a re tune , I decided to try something else first by adding some injector cleaner to the fuel. I was a bit skeptical about these products considering them like fishing lures catching fisherman more than fish. [laugh]
After a half a tank of fuel my S2R was transformed [thumbsup]
It runs so clean and crisp now I am totally sold on this as part of a semi regular part of maintenance.
Quote from: Slide Panda on December 19, 2013, 05:04:57 PM
Eric, not its not a big deal, but not normal operation either. And if there is a leak, hot exhaust gas is venting some place you might not want it to. Exhaust gas can be hot enought to melt plastic and wire insulation - so it's worth having a look.
Thanks! I'm a bit embarrassed to report, I've been running it like that for well over 10k miles. The header got knocked loose multiple times going over some rough terrain, plus salt corrosion. I'm a bit endeared to the pop so never got around to replacing it [cheeky]
Well you don't need to replace it, unless it really job damaged on your epic travels. Just loosening, re-seating and re-tightening the joints is often times enough cure the problem.
Some high temp exhaust sealant and be added if you want to ensure things are sealed up.
Wasn't able to ride until yesterday and I really paid attention to the sound. The most accurate description seems to be closest to a piece of fabric flapping in the wind at high speed. The sound starts at about 4800 RPM and to my ear is coming from the front of the engine (As I lean forward over the gas tank). I can't replicate the sound unless I'm moving, it doesn't manifest itself while stopped. The more I have looked around the net the more it it seems to me like the throttle bodies might not be synced correctly..On the other hand I am a mechanical ignoramus and might just be latching on to that idea since it was the last thing I looked at. If I try and balance them myself using a home made manometer (Throttle Body Synchronization (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2J_N4VVGGo#)) can I destroy anything? I want to try it as I think it would be good experience, but if there is a chance that I could really break something important I'll suck up the time and money and take the bike in...
BTW thanks for everyone who has chimed in, I know if must be frustrating when someone like me has a problem (or thinks they do) and can't articulate it well. So thanks for the patience.
Though I'm not an expert, i don't believe you can destroy anything.
If you don't want to take the time to build you own own bulky manometer like that, you could get a twinmax - they go for around or a bit under $100
Quote from: Slide Panda on December 30, 2013, 09:00:16 AM
Though I'm not an expert, i don't believe you can destroy anything.
If you don't want to take the time to build you own own bulky manometer like that, you could get a twinmax (http://www.aerostich.com/twinmax-synchronizer.html) - they go for around or a bit under $100
Fixed