Ducati Monster Forum

My cousin thinks her Harley is better than my 796 but I have a hard time seeing it. I know this is biased but would like to hear y'all's opinion

Apples & Oranges.

Nothing prevents you to have both.  It certainly did not prevent me  [evil]

why get a hamster when you can have a roast turkey sandwich?

why get a cat when you can have a beer?

why get a Hammond organ when you can have an orgasm?

why get a bucket when you can have a holiday in the Bahamas?

the list of futile questions is endless  [bang].

I've ridding many bikes.  Classic UJMs, A couple Harleys (one a V-Rod), a race replica, a few nakeds, on set for touring etc. 

"Better" is hardly a correct term.

Carving corners?  The 796 is great at that.  The Harley doesn't corner quite as well, but rolling though some sweepers and such daylight to dusk is incredible without the worry of dragging knees and such.

Touring/sightseeing rides?  Harley is great here, you just sit back and ride.  It's not about how fast you can run an 11 mile strip of curvy road or pulling a wheelie past someone or having a "balls to the wall" day of riding.  Do an 8ish or more hour ride on the 796 and you might appreciate a different style of bike/seating/controls etc.

Drag race?  No real comment either way, just be careful what Harley you line up against.

Around the track?  Sure 796.  Harleys have never been dominate on road courses.  However, I've seen plenty of Harleys at the strip.

In short?  I've never had a bad experience on a motorcycle.  Even my Monster has required me calling a rescue truck for a weird electrical issue.  Old Japanese UJMs?  Smile all the way.  Race Replica?  Smiles and devil horns.  Monster?  Nothin' but devil horns and smiles.  Harleys?  Still smiles, plus the V-Rod inspires devil horns.  Nakeds?  My preffered look. Probably why I've had my Monster since 2003 and won't give it up.

There is not a "better" bike  if it is simply about the experience of riding and enjoying the ride.

JM

This poll is flawed.


 ;)

 [laugh]

Buy both.  I have one of each and enjoy them equally.  As stated, totally different riding styles and purpose

I said it would be biased because of the site and we are all Ducati fans. I enjoy my bike no matter what I am doing. Either cruising or carving. I rode 100mi today and it was a blast

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/2355735dba470187dcf83c08935c6fe6.jpg)

;D

Its not biased this poll.  Its just...

flawed.

THIS...


(http://www.gigabikes.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10081/IMG_20131221_162109_855a.jpg)

Missing an option.

He's a newb, so I think we should give him a pass on this one.   ;)




















For future reference, all polls on the DMF are required to have a "boobies" option.

 [thumbsup]


And there is no reason not to have both types of bikes.  The more, the merrier.   [Dolph]

I agree with others, one of each - the more bikes the better lol  [shot]

???

yup....missing that 1 magical option which seems to almost always exceed the other options...

All of you guys are missing something quite important.  He should have posted the following question:  If you can only have one bike which is better a Harley or a Ducati?

Personally I will never own a HD product again but that's just me.  Have to admit I have a 1968 Aermacchi that is almost restored but only because it's my uncles old world record salt flat racer.

C'mon.....'Right' over your head.

no boobies option. >:(


should result in automatic ban. [thumbsup]

Sorry, 'twus too smart for me after a night of wine and old fashions.

Would it not be better to ask
Why have a Harley when you can walk  ;)

Alan H

I have 2 Shovel head HD's a FXWG that has a 40* rake and modded engine and a 80 FL that is heavily modded power wise. For the 2000 mile trips HD every time. I have 2 Duc 900ss. The i.e. is great for short fun trips with the wife or 1 up and the 93 SL is just oh yea for me. I also have an r90/6 cafe daily drive and a dirt bike xr400r. Do I want more yea. Each bike is different and each one does different things. Do any of them do everything perfect no. Neither is better or worst. Love them all
david

If you have owned a Harley you have walked.   ;D

Not to ruin a good joke, but riders of Italian bikes don't have a lot of room to cast aspersions of unreliability in Harley's direction. Performance maybe, but "making mechanics out of riders..." not so much.

That said, in the past 20+ years of riding, I've got more than double the miles on Harleys than I have on BMWs and Guzzis. That's of interest because a Harley has NEVER left me on the a side of the road/caused me to make a roadside repair and I can't say the same about those other brands.

Ducati gave me the bug to mod and upgrade.  Once you have that bug - well I think there is no other bike that can be modded and upgraded as much as a Harley.  So now I have a Harley too, I just like f'n around with bikes.  The Harley cannot deliver the thrills that the Ducati can but the Harley is a low maintenance bike.

I've test ridden the 796 and own a 1100evo. My wife has a HIGHLY upgraded 07 xl883(Zippers Performance used it as a test bike for engine and tranny kits)and I've ridded a few other evo XLs. The Xls all handle like crap in my opinion. I'd rather carve corners in the mountains with my shovelhead FLH touring bike than any post 1998 XL. The sportster CAN be a comfy touring bike(after new bars, seat, luggage and upgrade suspension), but the FXR was even better. XL 883 about 550-620 LBS, FXR 1450 620-650 lbs and a frame as rigid as a modern sport bike.Harley had some great engineers in the late 70's-90's***cough-Erik Buell-cough***. It's a shame the sales department wouldn't let them do anthing...http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm (http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm) If you like the XLs, try an FXR some day(if you can find one that hasn't been chopped, bobbed, or lowered) In order to get any modern XL, FX, or FL to meet the standards of any other manufacture in handling and braking you'll spend at least $2K. I ride all day on my monster with some basic luggage. Wouldn't mind trying a different seat out. The Ducs don't seem to have nearly the amount of "bolt-on" aftermarket as Harley(and a lot of that is NOT made by the MOCO and will technically void the warranty if installed even by a certified HD tech), at least not in the US. Not that many things(aside from engine/tranny parts) can't be moded to fit other bikes. In short, I find the Monster series fun and easy to ride at a reasonable cost for the value. I can't think of anything the  XL series does well that I couldn't do a bike $2K less and 200lbs lighter.

...yes, I kinda have a chip on my shoulder with the MOCO...I loved the FXR.

Yeah, you do have a chip on your shoulder and it's coloring your judgment.

Yes the FX/FXR was a great handling bike, but the stock 1200cc FX or 1340 FXR weren't exactly powerhouses, and as you point out they didn't weigh any less. Not to mention the suspension and brakes Harley used two plus decades ago weren't exactly state of the art either.

The current XLs are generally a tad portly and low, though perhaps you should try and XL1200R or XR1200/XR1200X and you may see a bit of a difference.

The late-model 1200 XLs are using heads derived from the Buell Thunderstorms, and hotter cams than your wife's 883 (when stock).

Hell, I'd argue that our current XL is the practical heir to the FX/FXR throne, at almost the same weight, slightly shorter wheelbase, more power, and better brakes.

If yours is so heavily modified it should now be pushing 100 hp. Why you wouldn't upgrade the suspension and brakes at that point I don't know, but it's easily done, and for much less than $2k.

A set of Progressive shocks in the rear (13.5" or so) for $200-300, a set of longer fork dampers ($80) and perhaps Ricors ($200) and a better caliper (perhaps a 4-pot off a BT or a PM, maybe $200-400) and you're there for less than a grand.

No, it's still no Ducati, but that's not the point of it is it?

Though my wife loves her Duc, there's no WAY I'm doing 400+ mile days on it. In contrast that's EASY to do on our XL, or Buell, or Guzzi.

(http://www.gigabikes.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10081/XL1200LrW110aa.jpg)

If you want a Harley that handles, get a '06-'07 VRSCR. Here's mine:

(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2009_1127Image0005.jpg)

The R had a bespoke de-raked frame with mid controls and inverted fork. Sure, they're heavy like any Harley, but with a little effort you can chuck one around like a sportbike (somewhere I've got many shots of them used on the track in Europe). With very minor mods mine has put down 120.3 HP at the wheel. My favorite bike to date.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/11/20/harley-davidson-vrscr-street-rod-best-used-bikes/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/11/20/harley-davidson-vrscr-street-rod-best-used-bikes/)

I can confirm what 'Bag said.  I've ridden one of those, they don't have the huge rear tire the VRod usually has.  They are a run to ride and pretty quick despite being heavy.  You don't really notice the weight when your riding it.

JM

 I would buy a Harley if they sold this one here:

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/spikethebike/image-18.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/spikethebike/media/image-18.jpg.html)

The new XR isn't too bad(sorry, wasn't too bad. another one of those bikes that handled too well for Harley to manufacture) for $12k. although I'd go for a triumph street triple for the money. they improved the cooling a bit over the stock XLs. However, that bike is no fun compared to the XR750. Then again, it's not a flat track bike...
The only thing stock on my wife's engine is the cases. And yes, with the right EFI map, air intake, cams, pulley, tranny and 2-1 pipes it made over 100hp at the rear on a dyno(with a professional on it). They changed the pipes and tranny when she went back to riding it because it was her first bike. They also had about $3000 of suspension upgrades on when they were testing it. As for the suspension and brakes, the parts may be under $2k, but installation from a HD dealer(at least 5 hrs at $90 an hr labor) would put a substantial dent in that. it cost me $1500 to fix just the fronts on one of my FXRs.
What you have to remember about the FXR is that the frame was 3X stiffer than any other Harley. The first 2 years also had better suspension than any new stock Harley, but that disappeared when they found they could sell more as low riders. The later FXDs(there's a reason they went back to calling them just superglide, not superglide 2) and the XLs did not, do not now, and probably never will be anywhere near as stiff. Part of the reason I gave up on Harley. I love their single cam engines(pan, shovel, evo), but I got tired of scraping off pipes, foot pegs, and clutch covers pushing even their best handling bikes thru corners that my $2500(used) Suzuki Savage didn't bat an eye at.
I'm not arguing 20 year old bikes versus brand new ones. Try to E-stop a $20k 1000lb FLT with stock brakes, then try it with a $20k 800lb BMW R1200RT with stock brakes and tell me which you feel safer on.
My wife used to tell me I was crazy to prefer the FXR over a new bike, but she wouldn't ride the FXR 'cause she said it was too tall and too big. Since she's test ridden FXD and a BMW F800R she hasn't been back on her XL. Says it hurts her back and it's too top heavy. I just can't stand the way it handles...

My point is, off the showroom floor, Harley looses to another manufacture on everything besides power when comparing same class bikes(in my experience. I'm not a test rider, just an enthusiast with a lot of Harley experience). And maybe style, if Willie G's  suits you.

I've ridden most of the bikes you've mentioned and a WHOLE lot more.

A late-model FLH has dual 4-pot Brembos and stops much better than you think.

Similarly a late-model Sportster with single 2-pot disc out performed a couple late model R1200Gs models in mcn. And the 2014+ Sportys have a revised brake system with larger calipers and master cylinders.

As for frame stiffness, where the hell did you think that extra weight went when they rubbermounted em? I don't believe your claims for a moment that the FXR was stiffer by any measurable amount.

Lastly, as for paying a dealer to install brakes and suspension upgrades, REALLY :o  :D


My point is that MOST people who bag on Harleys have very little experience with the models they're bagging on and/or just plain generalize too much.

I wouldn't put the GS in the same category as the XL. The GS is an enduro-tourer off the showroom floor if you get luggage, the XL Harley claims is a "sport bike", not a "cruiser". You'd have to compare something like an FXD convertible to the GS. The sportster has to be compared to GSX, R800, Ninja, Monster... Take an experienced track rider time them on a showroom condition 1985 FXRS and any model stock XL, My money is on the FXR. I could be wrong, I usually am.(then I have to fix whatever the people that told I was wrong make the beast with two backsed up...)

quoting a cycle world article Dec 1981 Harley Davidson FXRS Cycle World Test "And like the T, there are no cast iron junctions on this frame . It's entirely welded steel tubing, with plentiful gusseting around the steering head. Compared with the old frame of the FX series, the new frame is five times stiffer, according to Harley's chief engineer." That MAY be an embellishment, but I'm inclined to take Mark Tuttle at his word. I have great respect for what his team did in the early 80's The previous FX, FLH, and XL frames were designed by trial and error. this was the first harley frame designed by certified engineers with CAD assistance. I don't have much trouble believing they made some progress. There is little structural difference between the 70's frames and modern frames of those series(exclude the XR and FLT series ). Mostly just mounting tabs. still all welded steel box.

My wife doesn't let anybody work on her bike except Zippers, and HD techs.

I've never ridden a Harley and I never want to. I've taken 4 tours with guys on various Buells and Harleys, from the Adirondacks to Big Bend, and every single time the Buell or Harley slowed me down with various mechanical issues. Besides that I've never seen one that I didn't think was butt ass ugly. But feel free to ride what ya like and more power to ya, bubs.  :-*

WTF  ???

12% of respondents to a survey on a DUCATI MONSTER forum....  voted Harley Davidison  :-\

We're being white-anted !!!

Mods: Track these infiltrators down and banish them forever....

before we turn into the HDMF  [bang]

 ;D

And that one has spots, get him up against the Wall!   ;D

 

I like you... You made this all the better with this comment.

My Electra Glide has brembos and floating rotors.   8)  the rotors were after the purchase but that pig stops on a dime, for a 900lbs bike.  

 8)

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/ab1e17edf3b439c1430dfe678305ffe0.jpg)

My take.

So completely different these two bikes are that the only common elements seem to be that they both have two wheels and most have disc brakes these days.

Apart from that you have to love the Harley for what it is and the same said for the Ducati, although I wouldn't be holding up a 796 as the shining representative example. Not that it is a bad bike, no, but rather not representative of the line really either.

I could, and have done some, work on Harleys and could dmake something that suits a certain need for me but the bottom line is that while some of them have some get up an go most of them do not stop, do not turn and vibrate like hell. There may be some modded to hell and back exceptions but I think that's a good summary. Ducati, for all their own particular shortcomings, is more my cup of tea but I don't think they ride on water either.   ;D

Two totally different bikes to compare, i would like to own a Harely one day,but still keep my beloved monster and hyperstrada.

.Nice shovel Kopf.

I suppose I might own a Hardley some day...

but no way would it be the pig that is an 883 Sporty.

It does about as much, for me, as a 796. ;D

[bang]

796 is a Ducati Monster. 

Remind me again what forum this is?

The orange ADV forum?

Only because it says so on the MSO.  :-*

I still haven't warmed up to the new gen Monster.

BTW...don't you own some 'foreign' brand?  [evil]

Yup.

It aint no Monster, but it is fairly able  8)

Look the GS may not be the same category of bike as the Sportster, but neither is a GSXR, Ninja, or Monster. Harley doesn't claim the Sportster IS a Sportbike. If anything they categorize it as a cruiser along with the rest of the world.

Me, I'll call a spade, a spade. It's a naked, classic, standard, in the same general category as a Bonnie, V7, Shadow RS, Bolt etc.

BUT THAT WASN'T THE POINT. Most people who bag on Harley's miss the facts.

Here are some FACTS from MCN

08 BMW R1200GS 536 lbs. wet, dual front brembos, 60-0 stopping distance 125.6'
10 BMW R1200GS 532 lbs. wet, dual front brembos, 60-0 stopping distance 142.0'

07 HD XL1200N 526 lbs. wet, single 2-pot Nissin, 60-0 stopping distance 121.7'
10 HD XL883L 574 lbs. wet, single 2-pot Nissin, 60-0 stopping distance 124.96'
12 HD XL1200V 560 lbs. wet, single 2-pot Nissin, 60-0 stopping distance 120.7'

and for the record

09 HD XR1200 580 lbs. wet, dual 4-pot Nissins, 60-0 stopping distance 106.56'

YEAH, Harley's aren't sport bikes or adventure tourers, and the brakes don't have the one finger stopping power of a sportbike or sport tourer with dual-brembos, but they are generally far more capable than for what people give them credit, often AS OR MORE CAPABLE than lighter bikes with "better" brakes.

And generally if you start comparing them to other bikes in the same categories (classic/naked/standards, cruisers, tourers) you're going to see they are very competitive and often come out ahead.

MCN lists 7 different Bonneville variants, and those Sportster braking distances are better than 4 of the 7 (including the Thruxton).


You had me at: "I could be wrong, I usually am."  ;)



Yes sure, it may have been the FIRST, but it's been THREE DECADES, The FL has received at least three frame changes in that time, the FXD at least 2, and the XL a MAJOR frame redesign in 2004, and it was made significantly stiffer.

Again, I'm NOT BAGGING on the FXR, they're great bikes, but they're ANTIQUES and time has marched on.

I like the older Buells like the '96 S1. What a nasty looking bike [evil].
In 1996 I was at a crossroads with a choice to make between the S1 and M900. Nearly got the Buell, but a Sportrider comparison convinced me to get a 900 Monster. The Monster had the Buell covered in every category according to SR.  SR said, "Streetable power, sharp handling, intoxicating sound, the most entertaining ride in a long time"
Strange with a choice of bike my life took a different turn.

 8)  8)  8)

And I'll reiterate: if you want a sporting Harley, find yourself a VRSCR.  ;D

Is there an accepted forum term for the new-new-gen Monsters (beyond M1200 if & when that occurs)?

Is the new-gen Monster to be re-classified as the 'tween-gen?

I haven't warmed to the tweeny bikes either.

I'd kill humans for that bike.  [evil] 8)

It would look mighty fine parked next to my pan.  :)

(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/panroad1_zps90074b5b.jpg)

The lighting is wrong... :P

I know.....it's really hard to capture properly on camera.  :P

This side was a little better, but still doesn't do the flake any justice at all:

(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/panroad2_zpsf7de5a7d.jpg)

(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2010_0912Image0002_zps18e83222.jpg)

(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/2010_0919Image0001.jpg)

Stupid color-shifting beast!  [laugh]

Best seen in person.....

...and in natural light.

Indeed. As only you and I here truly know, it's super funky out in the sun.  8)

Now back to our scheduled program.

Shovels and Knuckles and Pans....oh my!!  [evil] 8)

Hmmm... Maybe stop looking at it and try riding one?  8)

Closest thing in the line I could find which more or less handled like my tuned 600 SL but without the ergos for 30-year-old.  ;D Only wish my 796 were as smooth. No doubt coin I can't spare would fix that...

Why would I do that?

I have a Monster that looks like I want it to...one with a full trellis frame and a steel fuel tank.

One that has an Ohlin's rear and racetech modified front...

and one that will run on 87 octane.

Get serious...seriously.

Lately I've been thinking it was dumb to part with my '94 M900 back in '08. It was becoming needy, but.....

 :P

i wouldn't mind a harley like this

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EwbhGAfHT70/UPCvD638g9I/AAAAAAAAjYU/u-dpuT4Nv6E/s1600/dudt%2BIMG_1933.jpg)

too bad you can't buy them at the dealer, seems like plenty of guys make them in their garages.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/dd3098d1d7f8794c2427cf17ff576a0d.jpg)