Ducati Monster Forum

Well, I have thought about buying a track bike again.

Here are 2 possible bikes that I am looking at.

#1  - Steve Crevier's 03 - 600 GXSR # 3 of 4. This bike was Steve's #3 Race bike. I understand that bike # 1 was a practice bike of the 1st half of the season. Bike 2 was his race bike of the 1st half of the season. Bike 3 was practice bike of last half of 03 season.
Yoshimura built motor.(cams, no stator or charging system)
Yoshimura triple tree
Factory pro billet engine covers
BMC air filter
Titanium Hindle exhaust
Galfer wave rotors (x2)
Suzuki rims 2 and 2
Ohlins rear suspension
Ohlins steering dampener
Protech front forks
RMR front forks ( on the bike )
Harris fairing stay
Harris rear sets
520 front and rear sprocket sets  ( 3 or 4 sets )
brake pads ( new )
5500.00  gets it all  !  for 6000.00 I will give you all my race take off
tires , good for track days...The guy who bought in has tracked it a few times.

#2
2002 Suzuki GSX-R 600 (750 motor) track bike
$2600
Pirelli Dragon Super Corsas
Protech front suspension
SMI-case covers
Galfer braided stainless front lines
Race bodywork
Custom aluminum fairing stay
Mid pipe heat wrap
New rad fan
Fresh battery (yuasa yt12abs)
Frame sliders
Safety wired
Rear spools
Keyless ignition w/toggle
Mission gearing
Water wetter coolant mix

Rims in excellent condition, Pirelli's have at least 2 track days left, at least 1/4 inch tread depth at center. Recent oil change & filter, recent air filter.

Stock exhaust/stock rearsets/stock rear suspension
Spare vance & hines pipe.
Spare Termignoni pipe.
Custom Kokanee overflow can.

This bike needs nothing, is ready to take to the track, stunt strip or race club. This bike can not be registered for the street.He also has pirelli diablo superbike slicks with rims & cushdrive $600
ohlins 46 prxls $500 with stock shock returned to us otherwise $600
vortex rearsets (good condition) $200
voltage regulator $50
wiring harness $75 (mint condition)
ebc full floating race rotors $100

I am really swaying towards option # 2. & Buying the Ohlins rearshock, Vortex rearsets, Rims & slicks, & floating rotors.
for under $4000. I can have all.

Any thoughts on these bikes,, Or, anyone have any better suguestions ? I would really love to track a Ducati,,,, but I am not going to throw major cash into this.

Thanx

John

How comfortable are you on I4s, specifically the difference in power delivery?

For that kind of cash you could get a really well sorted SV, and stay with a familiar twin powerband.

Without knowing your experience, plans for bike (race or trackday), gear that you need, budget, etc. I'll assume that you are buying a trackday toy and have no race experience. If that's true than there is absolutely no question, get the cheaper bike.

I have over 20 Races. From,, over 20 yrs ago ;D. & I did fairly well. Might have even won a few,, if I didnt fall off [bang] It was fun.
I still have old leathers & boots, they even fit, kinda,,, I think they shrank  [roll]

Tracktoy I guess, is what I am looking for. I dont plan on getting into this like I did yrs ago,,, tho,,,that could change. 20 + yrs ago I had kids growing up,, & spending 5 - 6 G a yr wasnt the wisest investment.(still isnt) I may have continued,, but they closed our track because it was inside the city limits(too much noise)

Would love to have the power/torque of a V twin. Would love to have a 1098 that I could afford to toss away.
The local track is basicly a Go-kart/ Supermotard track. Tho,, fastest lap is on a 1000cc I4.

 I think I can get comfy with the I4's

powerschmand, nonsense.

+1 on go w/ the 2nd choice.

Thanx guys.

I am going to buy the 02 with the 750 motor(the price is right). A 650 SV would be a fun bike,, but I am over 200 LBS.
These Japs bikes built within the last 10 Yrs handle pretty good. Not like the old days when I would always get blown away down the straight away with my Duc,,,,, then slowly battle back as all the Jap bikes would wiggle all over in the corners.

We will see, this could be a short lived comeback,,, at least I wont have major amounts of cash invested in this.

One more possibility.

http://www.emra.ca/emraforum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294

I just spoke to the fellow. He hasnt even raced it since he bought it. Sounds like he is motivated to sell.
Decisions decisions  [bang]

The current WSMC points leader in about a half dozen different classes is ~250 and rides a SV.  It may not have been your choice, but that doesn't mean it's not capable and competitive. [roll]

Enjoy your gixxer!

250 pounds ? ? ? Yes Sqweak, your right. The SV is a very competative bike. I did consider it. If there would have been one in my area at a reasonable dollar, I may have one. Definetly a good class to race in.
The GSXR is fun. NOT liking this drive line lash tho. Makes it hard to be smooth. Very tempted to put the S4RS on the track,,,, it seems easier to ride.
3 track days( 4th may be tonight, weather pending) Only been off the track once. Knock wood ( tapping head )

this what?

Drive line lash,,, is that the correct term ?. When I decel, & then accell, there seems to be alot of lash ! Almost like the drive train has to catch up to its self. The Duc has a little bit. Maybe this bike is a little sloppy. It seems to shift very nice.
I think I just need to get smoother.

sounds like your chain is loose.

I just checked,,,maybe a little, but not alot. I just checked.

I have the Duc & the GSXR both on stands & put them both in 1st gear. Rocking the rear wheels back & forth. There seems to be the same amount of play in both bikes. I bet if I took the Duc to the track I might find it has some drive line lash. Which means,,,,I am not smoooth,, I am not confident with my lines yet. I am still learning this track.

Last Fri night was a eye opener. There was a sanctioned Race at the track this weekend. Alot of the Racers from out of town showed up Fri night. Made me look silly (or sillier)

maybe your throttle cable has some slack or is otherwise a little effed.

clutch slip?

get the gsxr sorted, and sorted for you specifically (esp suspension-wise), and you won't find a better track bike.

I am still playing with the suspension. Sag is good. Springs seem about right for my weight. The front may drop a little too fast when brakes 1st applied. I will play with dampening tonight.

suspension: you may know exactly what you're doing there.  i for one sure as hell don't. 

one thing i've learned, for me anyway: let a pro do it.

Oh, I am no Pro on Suspesion set-up. I just go by feel. I dont think I can blame the suspension of the bike for any bobbles. Its the Bobble head riding it that influences any of the errors.

I think mechanical ability might factor into the decision.  One bike might require A LOT of tinkering where the other you just hop on and ride. 

If you're wrenchophobic like me, that might be an issue.

after a certain point, which is not very far, that's really not a good idea.


yes, you probably can. 

to get it set up properly you need a good deal of info about the bits that are on the bike, the bike itself (generally), and at least 2 ppl... you to get on the bike, the other to measure.  then you need a lot of intrinsic knowledge about how to set things up for the type of rider/riding you are or are going to do.

unless you feel like this is something you could at least semi-confidently do for anyone, i wouldn't try doing it for yourself.

Consult a professional for suspension. 
You want to know what to expect from the bike if the sh*t ever hits the fan, no?  If you've got some funky set up, who knows what you're going to get when you really push the limits of the bike.

I just got back from the track. I added a little bit of compression to the forks tonight. I felt the difference. The front didnt dive as much on initial brakeing. Which felt better.

Still playing with it. I have read a few threads on Suspesion set-up. I am no expert tho.

gm2. I never noticed as much "Drive line lash" tonight. I find that when I use a taller gear, 4th instead of 3rd. That the lash isnt as pronouced. Finesse-ing the throttle helps a great deal as well. The GSXR 750 motor seems to have enough low end grunt, compared to the very high revving 600's.

Getting a better feel for this short track. Having the line & being smooth is the key. Got timed tonight. 1:08.8. Was my best time.  Now I have something to work with.

In responce to a reply I had on another post.

why does staying under 1000cc matter?

and yes, a 999R is a superbike.. but there's a lot of debate about whether or not it's a *good* superbike.  especially, and if you're already talking those kinds of $$$, in light of, say, an 848.  or 1098.  both farrrr better track bikes that the 749/999.  but personally i don't know why you would track any ducati, unless someone was paying you to do so.  or at least providing the bike and paying for it when it goes down.  or you have lots of cash.

Especially if you already have a track bike that you bought a month ago!  Fix the one you have.  No point in spending 15k+ on a bike that you won't be any faster on than the one you already have in your garage.

Staying under 1000cc lets a guy Race in a few more Classes. I dont have the Race Classes with me right now,, as I am at work.
Its really just a thought. No,,, I wouldnt buy a 15 K track bike.. I would buy a Ducati that has a salvage title & put it on the track !!!

Hey,, I like driving this $2600(plus Ohlins rear shock $500, $200 Vortex Rearsets, ok,,, $3300 for a Good Track bike ) 750 GSXR...It has a little more "Low end Grunt" then the new 600 I4's. I get pulled(just a little) down the straight away againest a new 600 CBR with my friend that weighs 130 LB.

 But,,, I sure wouldnt mind putting a 2 cylinder Ducati on the Track,,, I am pretty sure it would do well  :)
I am not that up on the 999's. Are they not that good ? ?

I am really just toying with the idea,,,,,,,,,,,,I like your input.

i still say you REALLY ought to have the suspension set up by a pro.  even if you're close on your own.

re the 1000cc thing, that limitation is potentially different for a twin.  it ought to be.

999s... they aren't terrible but a lot of ppl hated them.  and the price:performace ratio for a 999 and 1098 is not even a comparison.

as for the the rest, if you actually want to race, go smaller.  like a 400.  or a ninja 250.  straight line speed is irrelevant.  anyone can go fast in a stratight line.  the key to racing, the key to learning to go fast on anything, is cornerspeed.  if you're riding a bike that *requires* you to carry a lot of cornerspeed, you're going to learn how to have it.  anyone can square off the corner on literbike and then wack the throttle.  but pretty soon you'll either get passed by lots of other much smaller bikes or get very injured trying to control all that horsepower as it hooks up and throws you into next week.  don't let your balls make these decisions.  if you actually want to race, get something small and learn to be really quick on it.  THEN you'll be able to be really quick on almost anything later.  keep in mind that even any modern 600 is nearly too much bike for most mortals. 

+1.  Except the part about cornerspeed on all bikes.  Literbikes def don't need cornerspeed, but they're in a class of their own.

If you're going at all fast, you're going to be going through tires like they're free (and they most def aren't) on even a 999 (or similar).  You can get about one race and a half a track day (MAYBE) out of a set of tires.  So, if you're racing those classes you're talking about, you're probably doing 3 classes a race weekend, which means 1200+ a weekend on tires minimum.

As for the S4RS, I think it's a terrible idea to track it.

250..........lol,,, how the hell are U suppose to do a wheelie on a 250 ? ?

I hear U on corner speed. The better ridders out here leave me in there dust. Man,,,, there is a guy out here on a 250 - 2stroke twin Yamaha that will eat anybody in the corner's Those Supermoto's can corner nicley as well.

Hey guys,, I am 50 Yrs old. I am not making a career out of this,,,,,,kinda been there & done that,,,,many many Yrs ago. Did well with the old 900SS 's.
Got killed on the straight away's,,, always caught them in the corners,,, while the old the 750 & 1000  I4's were wiggleing,,, I was motoring. Then it was just because the Ducati handled that much better. Now the Jap bikes dont wiggle.

Ok,,,, I wont put the S4RS on the track,,,,That was a silly thought,,,,,,,,,,but,,,,,,crap,,, I still might take it out for a track night.

Fricken tires,,,,,,,,,,,tell me about it. They melt.,,,, on my 2nd set,,,,,,in 5 track nights( 5 - 10 min sessions),, 1 full track day( 9 - 10 - 10 min sessions)

Suspension,,, I have a good feel for the front,,,,,,,,the back,,,,,is kinda  baffeling to me. I cant interpet the feedback

yeah, i was speaking in relative terms.  ;)

...you've read the solution for that problem several times now.

the other thing a suspension pro will be able to do is ask you questions.  with the answers to those questions, he/she can assess your setup problem and fix it.  have you had the bike's geometry measured?  maybe it's not even straight.  or maybe the frame is straight but the wheels are cockeyed by a millimeter or two. 

if you go to someone good, it's more like a psychiatry session for you and your bike.  just do it.

Ok,,, this Thurs night is another tracknight. If I can get off work early enough,, I am going. There is a suspension fellow out there (fellow racer) I will have him take the Su Zee out & set it up. He is about the same size as me.

 Are U happy now ? ?,, Your such a bully  [roll]

[laugh]

Big Steve ain't exactly svelte and we joke about how much the frame flexes, but he has been known to kill people while riding an SV 650.

(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r286/Desmogirl/l_f4f332c2a221e15a4c6dd4e5b12be876.jpg)

(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r286/Desmogirl/l_6e8a13bfcb3c9bab96577f778ea36ef2.jpg)

I can tell you he's a bit more than 250 pounds.  [laugh]

Ok, so bigger bikes can out-drag him on the straights, but he gets such an amazing drive coming out of turns that they don't have enough of a lead not to look like they're tied to something as he blasts on by in the braking zone.

Steve's a big man,,,,,, he has 50 lbs on me. That SV would be much happier & faster if he was "ALOT" lighter  :)

good thing he's not on an SV (there)...

Of course that isn't an SV.  He was riding the Team L.O.C. R6 (Dan Carr's) in the 6 hour WERA endurance race at Summit Point this weekend.  Good thing it was relatively cool.  There were 4 riders for the 6 hours. 

Especially in endurance racing, your first lap out other riders have no idea what your style is or how good you are.  He was saying he would get people reeling him in on the straight, but would then show him he could really ride in turns 1-6. 

The problem with being a bigger rider is that unlike in a car, the power to weight ratio is severely affected, and you really feel it when you weigh more than 50% of your bike's weight.  You also end up having to do some significant suspension work.