I am hoping to get a little input on my suspension plans. Through my research, I have found that the 996 Biposto Showa shock comes with a 6.8 spring. The spring I would need according to the data is a 7.5 for my weight. Clearly, I would have to respring eventually. However, with a difference of only .7, I don't think I would need to revalve the shock. I doesn't appear that there are any fitment issues other than the standard moving of the coil and doing something with the breather. Are my assumptions correct so far?
I want to raise the rear and know that using or making an adjustable ride height rod will do the trick - I do not know how much the rear can be raised without creating problems. I would of course adjust the front to maintain my preferred geometry. Any info on max rear height would be great.
As far as the fron goes, that is a bigger issue. I am 200lb. geared up and bottom out regularly.
Option 1 - cheapest and easiest
Put in appropriate springs and oil from race tech. Unknown how far this will get me.
Option 2 - GSXR fork swap
From my research, there are complaints about them being "too stiff" and require respringing to work. However, the 600 has the lightest spring, the 750 the heaviest and the 1000 are in between. If the GSXR forks seem too stiff, it occures to me that given my weight, if I use the 600 forks, I should be right in the sweet zone.
If my thinking on this is in error, please correct me. Cost is equal to or possibly higher than SBK fork swap once calipers, spacers etc are factored in
Option 3 - SBK forks
Here again the Biposto forks seem to be the ticket as they already have the heavier springs along with the benefit of only having to modify the triple and use a shim. Everthing else is bolt -on.
Option 4 - Ohlins
Not really an option - I'm cheap. Besides I have that based covered on a different bike.
I am trying to achieve a proper setup for street and spirited canyon riding at the least cost possible. Any advice would be appreciated.
Not sure if this is of any help ?
My now deceased under a bus 695 :'( was "orible" for my weight 100 kg with gear in OEM trim.
Swapped out the forks for a good set from an ST2 = fully adjustable cheap then threw in some new seals and oil.
Rear shock : used a 999/749 with a if I remember ??? a 9.5 kg or 10 Ohlins spring.
Had to cut of the inside frame tab and relocate some lectrics .Which was good as then I could take of the plastic
flappy side panels and expose the sexy frame bits underneath [thumbsup]
Cornered like a demon after that with no brake dive and stopped the headers smashing into
the road on bumps. [Dolph]
I'm familiar with the S* model fork swap. I am trying to avoid having to respring and was hoping that using Bipost components which have heavier springs from the get go would work. They aren't as easy to find but if I can get away with it, that would be good. I don't know if the strocke on the rear shock is close either. Thank uou for the input.
the springs in all the adjustable st forks are about 0.83kg/mm, so probably about right for most on a monster. i also have a spec for st3 with a different, slightly lighter spring, 0.81. so still not bad. in an st they need a lot more preload, but again it might be ok for a monster.
any other ss forks have similar crap dual rate springs like the monster forks. you might be able to make the std forks better tho. i don't like to annoyingly promote myself, but as it is relevant, have you read this:
http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/marzocchi-43mm-fork-design-and-impact.html (http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/marzocchi-43mm-fork-design-and-impact.html)
and
http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/marzocchi-43mm-fork-design-and-impact.html (http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/marzocchi-43mm-fork-design-and-impact.html)
the adj ss/st forks have somewhat flawed internals, but people get swayed by the believe that adjustable must mean better. non adj st forks are probably a better base for revalving.
i would have thought a 996 showa spring is a lot heavier than 6.8. the ohlins always had a 6.5, which was too soft for most one up riders.
I was under the impression that the ST also had progressive rate springs, whereas the SBK forks were straight rate. I have also found that '05 ZX6R forks may work. 50 mm at the top 52mm (shim will be needed) at the bottom with a 25mm axle and they used 300mm rotors. I still have to check out fork length and rotor spacing but it may be another alternative. BTW, that was an interesting read. Did you come to a difinitive conclusion?
I've tested some 9xx springs, and all were in the 10 +/- 0.5 N/mm range. At least some Monster S4 (the one's I've checked ...) have linear springs appr. 8.6 N/mm, and again some 1000SS have "real" progressive springs of unknown rate.
The adjustable SS/Monster forks are crap and require a complete modification to be any good, but if properly modified are as good as any.
Not sure about fitment of the 996 shock to a 695, haven't tried it.
At 200 lb geared up, you'll need way more than a 7.5 spring for the rear.
Something on the order of 10 or so.
FYI, last I checked, RaceTech spring calculator for the rear was way off.
I've brought it up several times with them, and nothing has changed...
S4 and S4R forks come with linear springs ~0.86 as MonsterHPD said, they'd be close for you.
SBK forks have a better valving arrangement than Monster/SS.
Best bang for the buck is to correct the springs first, if you're 200 lb on the OEM 695 springs, it's dodgy at best.
I agree the best place to start would be respringing for your weight. Then if you deside you want more you can look into different forks & shocks at a latter date, the most you would be
out if a few hundred bucks for the springs. As for raising the ride height, does you 695 have the adjustable link or the solid link? I think max adjustment on the adjustable link is at 5 threads showing, not sure how much higher this is than the none adjustable base line. A 999 link can be used and is about 1/2 longer than the monster link for a little extra, I am running one on my 620ie but I am running an 848 shock that is shorter than the stock sacs unit.
I have the solid shock stabilizer and need to get or make an adjustable one. Can a 999 link be used with a standard length shock vs the 848 (shorter) shock? BTW, were there any fittment issues with the 848 shock compared to other shocks with a reservoir? I know the 848 shock res sticks out to side. The concern I have with simply respringing is that I would be going up almost 30% and valving would be a concern. Not sure really what affect a simple respring of the front without valving would have as there too is is probably a 30% increase in spring rate.
Quote from: Speeddog on April 10, 2014, 11:02:16 PM
Not sure about fitment of the 996 shock to a 695, haven't tried it.
At 200 lb geared up, you'll need way more than a 7.5 spring for the rear.
Something on the order of 10 or so.
FYI, last I checked, RaceTech spring calculator for the rear was way off.
I've brought it up several times with them, and nothing has changed...
S4 and S4R forks come with linear springs ~0.86 as MonsterHPD said, they'd be close for you.8
SBK forks have a better valving arrangement than Monster/SS.
Best bang for the buck is to correct the springs first, if you're 200 lb on the OEM 695 springs, it's dodgy at best.
I got that number for the rear spring rate here: http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/suspensionspring.php (http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/suspensionspring.php.) There is an informative chart that has alot of info. I thought it seemed light as well, but what do I know.
PS: It look like you have to copy/paste the link.
Quote from: Banned on April 11, 2014, 05:31:25 PM
I got that number for the rear spring rate here: http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/suspensionspring.php (http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/suspensionspring.php.) There is an informative chart that has alot of info. I thought it seemed light as well, but what do I know.
PS: It look like you have to copy/paste the link.
The chart shows a 7.5 spring for 185-200 lb rider on a 996.
It shows a 10 spring for some monsters, and an 11 for others, for the same 185-200 lb rider.
I'm not an expert on what differs between the various Monster models, but I think the 695 uses the same frame as the 800/900 from 2002, 2003; i.e. the "ST" frame. The Öhlins shock for these come with a 10N/mm spring, which is fine for riders around 75-90 or so kg. I am about 75 kg and use 9.5 and 10 springs on my Monsters. I've tried 8.5, which was definitelytoo soft.
The 996 etc., and I think 749/999 I've seen all seem to have had 6.4 N/mm springs, which is soft for many riders and is the reason I have quite a few of them lying around. I don't remeber exactly what went in instead, but most were max 9 N/mm.
For the forks, 0.85 to 0.9 N/mm would probably be fine for 200 lbs / 90 kg, depending a bit on how much oil is in the fork. I use 0.8 N/mm springs in my forks, Showas and Öhlins.
Hope this helps a bit; at least as a reference point :)
O.K., so it looks like either way I will need to respring the rear shock regardless of what i get. Has anyone put a 10 on the stock shock, and if so, what was the effect with out it being revalved? I have a line on a set of Showa 2001 S4 forks with an axle that I will probably pick up for the front.
I've done quite a few 'respring the stock shock' jobs on 2nd generation Monsters.
It works fine.
They're no Ohlins or Penske, but they're already paid for.
Get those forks if you can, respring the rear, and ride it for a while.
Quote from: Banned on April 11, 2014, 01:17:11 PM
I have the solid shock stabilizer and need to get or make an adjustable one. Can a 999 link be used with a standard length shock vs the 848 (shorter) shock? BTW, were there any fittment issues with the 848 shock compared to other shocks with a reservoir? I know the 848 shock res sticks out to side. The concern I have with simply respringing is that I would be going up almost 30% and valving would be a concern. Not sure really what affect a simple respring of the front without valving would have as there too is is probably a 30% increase in spring rate.
The 999 adjuster rod will be able to be used with the factory shock to give you more adjustment than the standard adjustable monster link. Not sure if I would recomend the 848 shock to anyone else, the rear fender had to be removedand the rear raised as far as the 999 link would allow. On a new tire & chain the res will still hit the tire on large bumps. Mine came with a lighter spring than factory, not sure what rate, I was able to get the sag numbers into spec on it though, I have no complaints on the factory valving, the bike rides & handles better than it did with the factory Sacs shock.
Thanks for the info on the shock. I ended up getting an ST2 shock from ebay. I'll make or buy a ride height aduster. I'll go with that for a bit and see if anything further regarding the rear needs to be done. As for the front, I am picking up a complete '05 GSXR 600 front end (except for the wheel and controls) from someone on another forum. The 600 has .85 spring rate so I'll see how well that works before looking at respringing the forks. At the very least I'll have 3 way adjustability and radial calipers. Does anyone who has done the GSXR fork swap have an idea what I can expect to pay to have the various spacers made?