Ducati Monster Forum

I've found it an interesting read  [coffee]

http://www.bikeexif.com/build-custom-motorcycles (http://www.bikeexif.com/build-custom-motorcycles)

[thumbsup]

Thanks. I don't "get" what they do, but they are very nice guys. One of the bikes was at Bikes-in-the-Bottom yesterday. Seems he's moved out of his house garage anyway. At least there are a lot of loft-style spaces available in downtown Richmond, which sure beats trying to do this somewhere else!

  Yes that was an interesting article. Been there, doing that! ;D Pretty tough to make a profit on building complete bikes. There is much to be said about "building your brand".

This.

Interesting read.  8)

From what I can tell, most of the custom builders will only have 1 or 2 project bikes. They will sell the parts they fabricate separately, better profit margin.

When I worked for Paul Cox he always had at least 5 bikes in the shop in mid build. He was a busy guy. But he also had to supplement with leather seats and knife making.

Now Deus Ex....THERES some successful branding!
http://deuscustoms.com (http://deuscustoms.com)

Well, I've been to their Venice, CA location.

Trucker caps for $30, T-shirts for $50 and a shop apron for far enough above $100 that I didn't even commit it to memory.

Honestly, they're not building motorcycles for a living.

They do build nice bikes, though $$$$, even for ones which are not really one-off.

I'd be interested to know the ratio of bikes Deus builds to the number of shirts they sell... and then compare that to the number of bikes Ducati builds and the number of shirts they sell. I'd be willing to bet it's not that far off.

No they're absolutely not. They are a branding machine. Quite successfully too. That said, Classified Moto doesn't build bikes for a living either. The article to me is mostly about branding and marketing. The dude probably makes more on the other stuff (lamps, sconces, tees, parts, etc) than on the bikes.
Classified bikes are really not all that impressive. But the dude is smart in that he is projecting an overall image and maybe eventually a "lifestyle".

Tim Harney is the same way. His venture is supported by his furniture and tv appearances.
http://www.harneyboybikes.com/harneyboybikes/Home.html (http://www.harneyboybikes.com/harneyboybikes/Home.html)

There was a time (like, say, back in the late '90s) when I wanted to do customer builds. Now I'd rather just put something together to please me, and if it sells after the fact that's fine.

I should have pursued it further, and pushed the branding thing. Still could, I guess. But having been semi-self-employed once as my main source of income and later having the economy yank the rug out, I'm not inclined to do anything like this again on a full-time basis. Like the article suggests, I'll keep my day job and dabble in my spare time.

You can't have brands like Classified Moto and Deus Ex without at least a little substance behind them. I don't believe anyone would buy a Classified Moto T-Shirt if they didn't first believe they've built some cool bikes. In that regard, I believe the two guys at Classified Moto are in fact building bikes for their living. Without the bikes, nothing else sells. Perhaps the lamps, but I doubt the two of them could make a living off of just those. Whenever they do open their build queue, it's only open for a few days at the most, with their "higher end" packages being sold at well over $10K. That, to me, is building bikes for a living.

$10K for a build, you mean?
It's much much higher than that. Friend of mine asked a quote for Deus's Project X bike, and it was around $35K IIRC.

I thought I remember hearing something like 14K to 15K for the higher end Classified builds, but I could definitely be wrong.

Edit: Just found it. To get a bike similar to Sackhoff's most recent one it would cost $21K. That was for a short time back in January.

When I look at the cost of some of these custom builds, especially the ones that are basically all expensive bolt on parts with little to no custom fabrication I can't understand the mindset of the customers who buy them. $30,000 can take you so sooooo far even if you only do barely any of the wrenching yourself and "contract out" the stuff you're not comfortable doing. And so much more fun than just sitting there like a human ATM machine waiting on "your" bike. Being your own contractor isn't work...it's being in charge of what your bike ends up as and most of the fun. Rich people so often lack taste and imagination it's ridiculous.

+1 I agree.

+2

One-off parts are the shit.

I think it's the bikes that bring the attention (these are moto companies after all), but it's the "side" stuff that keep the gears greased.
I wonder what the profit is on 15k after buying parts, paying overhead, and some kind of wage? Not much I'm guessing.

Can somebody name someone who *actually* just builds custom motorcycles for a living?

I don't mean builds a few bikes to sell for cost plus 1%, so that they can then sell $50 T-shirts and such.
Or builds bikes as fodder for a TV show.

Truly just builds custom bikes only, and makes a living at it.

i think the scene is such that if you can build bikes that are considered "cool" and therefore worth paying for then there's going to be some buzz around you and demand for stuff like t-shirts, etc.  just the nature of it. so you sell t-shirts because everyone else in that position does

does shinya kamura sell t shirts?  or maybe he still owns zero, or part of, and that bankrolls him?

what about greg hageman?  just looked at his website, t-shirts listed, but not able to buy them there it seems.

i must say, that bolt he did looks so much better than the typical tripe yamaha served up it's amazing.  no wonder he won.  you've have to hope someone at yamaha took the result seriously.  it needs a longer rear guard, some bigger indicators, legal air filter and a legal (if it's not now) muffler.  it looks like a bike you'd find in a dealership.  everyone else made customs of varying degrees, he made a production bike.

the guy who owns dues used to own mambo, a very successful australian street/surf clothing company with strong art/fringe themes.  he knows how to sell stuff.

Walt Siegl.

He'd be happy to sell you a shirt too, but building bikes is what he does. ;)

Oh yes.  [thumbsup]

http://www.waltsiegl.com/sort/motorcycles/ (http://www.waltsiegl.com/sort/motorcycles/)

Yeah I was going to say Shinya and Siegl also.

Hageman sells fabricated parts for people wanting to do their own virago and bolt builds. That's 'on the side' but he's still doing all the work himself.

If you go to vimeo and search Born-Free there are dozens of videos they've produced that feature the builders for their annual build-off. Most of those guys seem to only do bikes for a living, granted it's a much more modest living than some of the other names we've suggested.

If I would be doing it, I'd be offering two kind of builds.
On one side, build custom, one off, motorcycles, with many custom made parts, priced like these guys typically price such kind of builds (which starts well north of $30K).
On the other wise I'd have a couple of lines, where the build is more of an assembly with minor customization, more than a full build from scratch.
I believe being able to offer the latter at around $20..25K can have a market, made by people which wants nicely designed motorcycles, w/out needing (or willing to spend) the former kind of money.

That's exactly what Orange County did, or does? Not sure if they're still in business.

Let's not put Walt Siegl, and Deus, on one side, and OCC on the other, in the same thread  ;D

Here're some guys which offer a different price range, and they build nice bikes:

http://www.brassballscycles.com/bbc/bikes.aspx (http://www.brassballscycles.com/bbc/bikes.aspx)

And another one I like, though Russell seem to only have Expensive, and More Expensive  ;D

http://www.exilecycles.com/index.php?section=1 (http://www.exilecycles.com/index.php?section=1)

It's incredible how some of the guys that were featured on the Discovery Bile Build-off shows are still in business considering what they charge.

Thanks for posting that link to Walt Siegl's bikes.  If I were in the bike building business, those cafe racers are the kind I'd like to build.  [bow_down]  Although, I'd see how some of them look with a Rickman fairing.  Also I'd try to build a Norton commando as a hub-center steering bike with some kind of double leading shoe front brake, because reasons.

I'm not surprised....people are sheep, they do what the teevee tells em to do. Same goes for all the tattooers from the reality shows...decent artwork but nothing that isn't surpassed by hundreds of other artists. They charge outrageous prices now and ppl still flock to em.

Those Brass Balls bikes are reasonably priced, if that was a style I liked...but I dont.  [puke] I don't think I'd put any more undeserved cash in Toby Keith's pocket anyway  [laugh]

it's kind of refreshing to see people quoting prices.  i remember even 10 years ago garden cycle were listing a v7 resto at $20k or so, and copping a whole lot of flak for it from the moronic "i could do it for 2" brigade.  nothing custom, just a resto.  and it was a realistic price.  it's all labour time, and $100 an hour adds up.

the issue with any of these bikes is that in the configurations shown, in au at least, none of them are registerable.  i don't know how they get around that in the usa.

Differs from state to state of course, but motorcycles are still dealt with in a pretty "wild west" fashion here. Especially custom bikes...they're even easier... don't even need horn or turn signals on those. And emissions checks are unheard of, except in California.  Cars are a different story but bikes are a breeze.

Yep, here in MN it's pretty easy. As long as you can prove where the main components came from when it comes to inspection/titling and have receipts, it's a free for all.

I'll be finding out first hand here soon. My "rebuild" turned out to be building a brand new bike. NOS frame, completely different motor. The only thing making it over to my "NOS 2000 M944SS" is some random hardware. Not even sure if the motor serial # is going to survive the powder coating...

Hint: they can be a little pissy if they can't see the case numbers clearly.....  ;)

+1. The CHP officer wasn't impressed with my suggestion to do a little 1st grade trick to see my frame VIN.

(http://kidoinfo.com/ri/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/leafrubbing1.jpg)

He suggested sand paper instead.

I love your country! :D

if you're going to bend the law, make it as easy as possible for those you have to placate to do their job.

I think part of the problem is the dilution of the term 'custom.'  I always do an /eyebrow when I see "custom wheels" and really they're just off the shelf.

To me, custom means "this stuff doesn't belong on this bike, but I made it work."

What about, say; a '96 900ss engine with a big bore kit in a 2000 M600 frame with an S2R front end with an aftermarket valve & spring cartridge with aftermarket wheels and a tail chop? The parts all basically bolt together without being made to work...would that be a custom bike? 😈

That's a "Mechanic's Special".

... I'd call it FRANKENDUC

Actually, upon further thought, I'd call it a "Special".
A collection of mostly bolt-together parts with a specific theme or style in mind.

This is a "Mechanic's Special".
A collection of mostly bolt-together parts, primarily selected for function.

The title says 1998 M750, but there's quite a bit of stuff that's not OEM that year.
IE, the original first generation seat had turned to wood, so I fitted a second gen seat that doesn't match the tank cutouts.
The tail had been chopped, and I didn't have a first gen one laying around, but I did have a second gen one, so on it went.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7060/13915174502_3caeb412f8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ncCUzL)

I can dig "FRANKENDUC".

I think my last bike was more of a mechanics special...cuz I had to do crap like shim the motor mounts to make em work. I made sure everything on my new bike is going to just work and was new, like new, or rebuilt to new quality. Tired of gremlins.

After the last bike show I went too I think custom bike is a very loose term.  Did you know they are putting speakers into sport bike plastics now  [puke].  I think the custom sportbike scean are all converts from the mini truck world.
There are some very nice cafe style bikes being built now, and with websites like bikeexif.com to get your work noticed it is easier now than ever to get your name out.  Not sure if the economy will ever allow for bike building to get back to the days of every town having multiple chopper shops building $60K+ bikes.

it's called 'shit i had lying around which is now a bike'

a 2000 m600 frame is pretty much a 93 - 99 m900 frame, and s2r forks are just the forks that went into most things post 200 or so, so really it'd be pretty hard to tell.

When Ducati did that, it ended up being called a Monster  [Dolph]

Beat me to it, haha

Don't tail chops technically make our bikes "choppers"?  :P

Custom to me is the act of going beyond the marginalized standards set by stock manufacturing. But it's a grey area that's clear when you see it but it's perameters are out of focus.
If you take a stock bike, upgrade its performance, add really expensive wheels, brembo this and that, ohlins this and that, outsource the upholstery, and basically change every element with high end bolt on parts...is it custom?
If all you did was change the subframe a bit with some cut and weld and add a one off seat and remove all of the paint, is that custom?
To me it requires hard work in planning and execution. It can be clearly seen with no explanations.

Well said. Really though, we're all pretty much over thinking this. A bike is custom when it's how YOU want it. If the only thing you'd change about an OE Monster, given the choice to do anything, is a tail chop and lowered headlight.....that's a customized bike.

Example.
I have just been quoted $26K for this (and ~4 months ETA), which is very VERY tempting  [evil]  [evil]
There is not a lot of "full custom", but for me, it does not matter. I am not a custom seeker for the pure sake of it, I look into custom as a way to get a style which I enjoy.


(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VRIdomilths/U1HLis9-XPI/AAAAAAAAA6k/PXKvwJyDRyI/w1800-h1200-no/ducati-cafe-racer-2.jpg)

Not over thinking...just taking consideration.
Said OE Monster, sure that might be custom by the definition Merriam Webster. But there's that weird grey area. Next to a Radical Ducati bike it falls way to one side near OEM.
I dunno....sorry for changing the subject. Back to pancakes.