04 620. 67000 miles. Recently flushed fluid. Rode 170 miles Friday with no trouble.
On my phone. Forgive my typing.
On the way to work clutch lever suddenly became rock hard. Can't move it at all.
Ideas?
Hopefully some others will chime in, but I've heard of that happening when the clutch hub nut backs off. Not sure if you can check that at work in a parking lot. I might be inclined to first crack the bleed screw and give the lever a pull. If the lever won't move the problem is upstream? Next you could remove the slave cylinder and see if anything falls out and the pushrod slides OK. You running those plates I sent you?
BK
Yes, clutch hub nut backing off is the most likely cause.
I've seen a slave piston that was drilled through bt the pushrod, courtesy of a locked up pilot bearing.
Piston o-ring still somehow sealed on the pushrod, so it just bottomed out.
Dry clutch bike, though, that failure mode on a wet clutch very unlikely.
Quote from: Privateer on April 21, 2014, 07:22:56 AM
04 620. 67000 miles. Recently flushed fluid. Rode 170 miles Friday with no trouble.
On my phone. Forgive my typing.
On the way to work clutch lever suddenly became rock hard. Can't move it at all.
Ideas?
Is the clutch engaged?
thank you AMA roadside assistance.
(http://distilleryimage0.ak.instagram.com/6a517396c99a11e39a250002c9c63f58_8.jpg)
so yeah, got home, started messing with the clutch slave first, all seems good. when I disconnect it, it works great. Not good.
Pop the right side cover and start taking the clutch bolt springs off. The last one is a little tricky so I'm fiddling with it, and yeah, the entire clutch basket and drum comes off in my hand. The nut wasn't on at all.
yeah so I always wanted to see what it looked like under there.
The tangs on the basket all look ok. I can see on the inside of the cover where it scraped a little but I don't see any damage to anything else.
Anything else I should consider upgrading/replacing/fixing/checking while I have it all apart?
so now I guess I need one of those clutch holding tools, I have a 32mm socket, and something to torque to 140 ftlbs?
At 67k miles, check the friction plate thicknesses.
Individual frictions not less than 3.5mm.
Full stack not less than 41.3mm.
I'd recommend OEM.
Quote from: Speeddog on April 21, 2014, 04:52:18 PM
At 67k miles, check the friction plate thicknesses.
Individual frictions not less than 3.5mm.
Full stack not less than 41.3mm.
I'd recommend OEM.
I replaced the plates about a year ago with BK_856er's 18,000 miles plates from a 695. I've probably put another 12-15 on them. so I presume I'm OK there.
I can't seem to find the basket holder thingee at monster parts, moto wheels, ca cycle works... anyone know where one can be acquired?
unless someone local (socal/oc) has a loaner I could pick up?
Glad you found the problem. If you have the APTC clutch (you should if you are using my take-off plates) there is a special holder for that smaller diameter basket. You could probably cobble something else together. Regardless, make sure you take pains to correctly torque the hub nut. The factory calls for moly grease on the threads. Some people like to use Loctite instead due to the habit of these backing off and doing damage, but if you go that route make sure you use the correct product and degrease the threads. Whatever you did last time did not work. I obsessed over how to deal with it and recounted my hybrid process somewhere here. FWIW, mine is still OK.
BK
need a manual?
APTC is an oddball hub, doubt you'd find anyone outside a dealer with a hub tool.
Put it in top gear, 2x4 across the swingarm blocking a spoke.
Ignore my previous thickness numbers, I thought you had a regular wet clutch.
Quote from: BK_856er on April 21, 2014, 07:21:06 PM
Glad you found the problem. If you have the APTC clutch (you should if you are using my take-off plates) there is a special holder for that smaller diameter basket. You could probably cobble something else together. Regardless, make sure you take pains to correctly torque the hub nut. The factory calls for moly grease on the threads. Some people like to use Loctite instead due to the habit of these backing off and doing damage, but if you go that route make sure you use the correct product and degrease the threads. Whatever you did last time did not work. I obsessed over how to deal with it and recounted my hybrid process somewhere here. FWIW, mine is still OK.
BK
I didn't do anything with the hub nut when I replaced the plates. maybe I should have /shrug
Quote from: Speeddog on April 21, 2014, 07:36:49 PM
APTC is an oddball hub, doubt you'd find anyone outside a dealer with a hub tool.
Put it in top gear, 2x4 across the swingarm blocking a spoke.
Ignore my previous thickness numbers, I thought you had a regular wet clutch.
thanks Nick!
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on April 21, 2014, 07:25:56 PM
need a manual?
other than as described here... is there something else I need to know? If you have a PDF I'd love to have it, though.
Quote from: Privateer on April 21, 2014, 07:49:19 PM
I didn't do anything with the hub nut when I replaced the plates. maybe I should have /shrug
thanks Nick!
other than as described here... is there something else I need to know? If you have a PDF I'd love to have it, though.
pm me your email, tomorrow I'll send you a dropbox link
2x4 will need to be on the bottom of the swinger, so you may need an assistant.
Might be worth perusing this thread:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24411.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24411.0)
BK
Quote from: Speeddog on April 21, 2014, 07:36:49 PM
APTC is an oddball hub, doubt you'd find anyone outside a dealer with a hub tool.
Put it in top gear, 2x4 across the swingarm blocking a spoke.
Ignore my previous thickness numbers, I thought you had a regular wet clutch.
It's been a few years since I swapped out the APTC... but I seem to remember that the holding tool I bought from Desmo Times worked on both the APTC and the regular wet clutch (which is weird, because on the site it says it is for dry clutches).
Maybe it didn't fit, and I removed the APTC using the 2x4 method.
Good luck getting this all sorted.
I was feeling somewhat immune on my 620 after 50K miles.
Curious if you're able to get this all together with just the 2X4 method, that'll be the extent of special tools I'll have at my disposal
should I check the nut at my next oil change.
Quote from: Speeddog on April 21, 2014, 07:36:49 PM
APTC is an oddball hub, doubt you'd find anyone outside a dealer with a hub tool.
wow $142 for the tool. scrap 2x4's are almost free.
found this, from this forum in the interwebs,
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a67/falcn12/Monster%20Senna/APTC%20Install/2012-06-08212215.jpg)
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on April 22, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
found this, from this forum in the interwebs,
~~~SNIP~~~
I've got one of those, and they're very useful, for non-APTC wet and regular dry.
I forget whether they'll work on a dry slipper.
Problem with the APTC is the 'hub' is two parts, a center with the spiral spline and the inner flange, and an outer with the teeth to match the steels which has the outer flange (like a conventional pressure plate).
You can't grab anything useful on the APTC with that tool.
Nick i was watching a video you posted from adler, talking about steel 1.5mm, 2.0mm blahblah, a hardened steel that looks different, a friction plate with a 'turned down edge' or something.
I looked at all mine.. and my old one.. the steel and the friction plates.. they all look the same and the steels are the same thickness (all 1.5). is there some subtle diff I'm missing?
A video I posted?
???
Quote from: Speeddog on April 22, 2014, 11:00:01 PM
A video I posted?
???
well, it was a while ago.
Quote from: Speeddog on September 17, 2012, 09:56:10 AM
That's not an APTC clutch in the video.
Disassembly/assembly of the APTC is a bit more involved.
Here's a couple videos.
These are from the manufacturer, Adige, it explains it fairly well, although the clutch they're working on isn't the Ducati unit.
APTC Video Assembly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgYIIcWW3K4#)
APTC Video Installation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKL-P9euKRk&feature=relmfu#)
well i did something make the beast with two backsing wrong because I broke off not 1 but 2 clutch spring bolts.
just make the beast with two backsing great.
They snap getting them out?
The bolts or the aluminum posts that the bolts screw into?
I'm thinking posts, and if so that is unfortunate. Maybe the loose unit knocked things around?
Hopefully you can find a used piece (some folks ditch the APTC unit) or convert to a standard wet clutch.
BK
i snapped the head off the spring bolts. the first one I read the torque wrong. adjusted my wrench and popped the other one. not sure what happened.
strangely when i started looking at them, they're 2 different kinds of bolts.
With some creative drilling and dremel'ing, I've gotten one out. the other, while I was drilling it, rotated and went 'down' the post. not sure how I'm going to get that one out.
You lucked out then. Use a reverse bit to drill that thing out. Others might have better advice from first-hand experience.
Get a better low range torque wrench, or better yet use a careful touch by hand. Those bolts are under tension by the spring and don't need much to keep them in place. Just get 'em snug.
The dealer can set you up with new bolts. I'd do all of them, if you dare remove the ones that were likely overtorqued. I replaced my bolts/washers/springs when I did my plates. Might even still have the old stuff.
BK
Quote from: BK_856er on April 30, 2014, 09:23:53 PM
You lucked out then. Use a reverse bit to drill that thing out. Others might have better advice from first-hand experience.
Get a better low range torque wrench, or better yet use a careful touch by hand. Those bolts are under tension by the spring and don't need much to keep them in place. Just get 'em snug.
The dealer can set you up with new bolts. I'd do all of them, if you dare remove the ones that were likely overtorqued. I replaced my bolts/washers/springs when I did my plates. Might even still have the old stuff.
BK
took a couple hours but I got everything buttoned back up. Thanks for the tip on the left hand drill bit. Never even knew such a thing existed. The other broken piece was a pregnant dog but I finally got it out. The left twist did pull it 'up' some but then it just stopped. so I drilled it pretty good with the smallest bit, then used he next biggest. Then hammered the screw extractor in and backed out the broken piece.
Reinstalled everything, made sure all the plates were seated properly, gently torqued the new spring bolts. reinstalled clutch slave and operated like normal. I didn't have time to change the oil to start it up, but that'll be saturday night's project I suppose.
now to figure out where all this oily mist is coming from AND figure out why my crankcase breather weeps oil.
Quote from: Privateer on May 02, 2014, 06:00:15 AM
now to figure out where all this oily mist is coming from AND figure out why my crankcase breather weeps oil.
Make sure the oil isn't overfilled and replace the breather. They are leak prone. Go for a metal one if you have some spare $$.
BK
here's what the extractor looked like post extraction (phrasing)
(http://twoslow.com/wp-content/uploads/wppa/877.jpg)
two days commuting, everything seems a-OK. Hell, it feels better than before. that might be just psychological though.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Good to hear, even if I didn't have anything constructive to add.
Quote from: Dirty Duc on May 07, 2014, 09:26:37 PM
Good to hear, even if I didn't have anything constructive to add.
it's all good :) sometimes I just need to talk (post) things out loud and whatever input come along can move me in the right direction. I was pretty despondent when I broke off those bolts. Another lesson learned about not being in a rush and thinking 'this is easy.'
Last time I replaced the clutch plates everything went so easy it set me up for unrealistic expectations. Must've just been beginner's luck. Had a pregnant dog of a time putting the clutch pack together this time. For some reason, keeping the plates on the hub and and lining up the aptc splines was a complete nightmare this time.