I was wondering, what the use is for an airbox. I see these highly expensive performance/race ones in carbon fiber for the 848, 1098, 1198, and so on, which cost 2000, and wondering, wouldn't simple pods be even more effective for race/performance/street race purposes? Do the airboxes have a function? I know the OEM are there to prevent rain going in there, as well as for emissions purposes; but these expensive aftermarket ones???
Thanks for enlightening me
T
Welcome to the forum. It's a great international community.
Go and introduce yourself in the introduction section.
Much has been discussed about this topic and it's worth using the search function to read up on the various arguments for and against airboxes. Which model do you have?
I would suggest that since modern MotoGp and World Superbikes all appear to use air boxes, and their ONLY objective is to go faster, that the manufacturers seem to believe the air box is beneficial.
If they believed pods were "more effective for race/performance/street race purposes" that is exactly what they would be doing, especially in MotoGp where the bikes are not production based.
I have no evidence to show the factories are right but I would find it hard to believe that they have spent MILLIONS over the years and never thought to test/compare the difference themselves.
Mark
The reason I asked what model you had was that it will make a difference I think on whether you are better off keeping the airbox.
People have had varying results with both pods and airbox mods, depending on the kits they used, type of mods and tuning applied.
Of course any SBK with ram air needs its sealed airbox. A non ram air model bike can work very well with an open airbox (lid cut open and tuned accordingly). Some people have achieved good results with Pod filters on some two valve EFI Monsters when a good velocity stack is part of the kit (again tuned accordingly).
On older carbed models, open airboxes work well with a jet kit when tuned to suit. Pods tuned to suit work ok too on those older models, but both work better than the absolutely stock, closed airbox and stock jetting.
The stock airbox on a carbed Monster is quite small in volume and inefficient in shape and flow characteristics imo, so that's why pods are not far behind with those models.
Pods are quite popular, people like the clean look, loss of weight and ease of service access.
On the Tamburini design SBK's the stock airbox mounts will break over time which indicates the frame is flexing.
The carbon Corse and aftermarket airboxes actually stiffen the frame very slightly.
I think I read somewhere that the odd SP or SPS came with carbon airboxes.
Quote from: koko64 on June 18, 2014, 05:12:33 AM
I think I read somewhere that the odd SP or SPS came with carbon airboxes.
Yup.
There were some good ones that actually helped. Some were just bling and broke like the stockers.
The strong ones worked like a frame cross member?
Quote from: koko64 on June 18, 2014, 05:23:56 AM
The strong ones worked like a frame cross member?
I doubt they were that strong.
I also doubt any mortal could feel the difference.
Bayliss, Checa, or Chili...perhaps.
Didn't they remove an actual cross member at one stage to increase the airbox volume? It really helped fatten the power by all reports.
Dunno
One of the other reasons is that engines tend to prefer a volume of "calm" air, especially at low- and part-throttle openings. If you look at dyno curves for airbox vs modded airbox vs pods, a lot of times you'll see higher numbers down low. As this is where engines spend most of their functional life, it makes sense to design for that use. Sacrificing a few ponies all the way at the pointy end to get a better running bike around town makes for a much more enjoyable riding experience overall.
I'd agree with that.
I like a good airbox. My Gixxer has a beauty.
In order for our engines to work best they need large volumes of cold still air.
But on a wider notion, in the early 80s race teams started working with resonating air boxes as a way to flow the air for a more efficient detonation. This is why you see the move from K&N pods to CF airboxes with $$$$$$ development budgets in the late 80s early 90s.
this books has an excellent explanation of how and why. its a bit dated, but it will go a long way to making you understand how horsepower is made and applied;
http://www.amazon.com/Sportbike-Performance-Handbook-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760331839 (http://www.amazon.com/Sportbike-Performance-Handbook-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760331839)
Yes, I can see, the airbox can make sense in a race/autobahn bike. I have an 2008 S2R1000 (initially wanted the discussion general and did therefore not mention) and I use it more for in-town/cafe racer/commuter, and the saving of 2kg when removing the airbox and going with pods is more attractive to me.
Thanks
I had the beast kit on my S2R 800 and have ridden numerous fuel injected and carburated Ducatis with pods
its going to be a pain to tune for the pods. Even tuned well, you are going to lose power and create dead spots in the throttle. The weight loss is completely negligible and if you ride or park in the rain you will be damaging your heads.
The only benefit these provide is the intake sound when you open the throttle up (which to its credit is pretty damn awesome)
Best thing for your bike is to cut the aibox lid (or get a fancy replacement one that achieves the same goal) and run a high flow K&N/BMC filter. There are tons of things that will shed weight while looking better, having a greater affect, and not diminishing performance.
interesting.
I looked at the Corse Dynamics kit, and my intention was to also use this Drycharger Cover. Does that not prevent water from getting in?
http://motowheels.com/i-7788067-corse-dynamics-high-performance-intake-kit.html (http://motowheels.com/i-7788067-corse-dynamics-high-performance-intake-kit.html)
http://motowheels.com/i-16588407-kn-filter-drycharger-cover.html (http://motowheels.com/i-16588407-kn-filter-drycharger-cover.html)
in an oem application the primary reason for the airbox is noise reduction. fit pods and you'll know why.
also crankcase ventilation, it's very hard to do that without an airbox.
it also provides a stable air envirinment for the intakes, possibly this benefits cv carbs more than injected applications.
ideally you want a large space of air for the engine to draw from with an easy entrance and good filter area. i'd fit pods and build a big box around them.
but most seem to want to fit pods for the look. in that case, go for the look you want and work around that as required tuning wise, etc. it's not going to make a lot of difference, but the difference will be somewhat proportional to road speed. on these engines with the intakes at the front it's not such a big deal, but on a jap 4 say, where the carbs are behind the motor and the airflow is rushing past the side of the bike, you will get a dynamic low pressure area behind the motor. whee the carbs are.
i remember reading a report about a big naked run out here in one of the race series, a zrx1200 maybe, and the mechanic said that they had lots of trouble with inconsistant jetting at high speeds when running pods. so they put an open fronted box of sides, floor and back around the pods. from the side you couldn't see the carbs. so it got all its air from over the motor (hot air, oh the horror!) and it was faster and much more consistant.
ram air adds another dimension, and of course that requires an airbox.
water is of no consequence, it just cools the charge a little.
Quote from: tdmf on June 18, 2014, 04:13:47 PM
interesting.
I looked at the Corse Dynamics kit, and my intention was to also use this Drycharger Cover. Does that not prevent water from getting in?
http://motowheels.com/i-7788067-corse-dynamics-high-performance-intake-kit.html (http://motowheels.com/i-7788067-corse-dynamics-high-performance-intake-kit.html)
http://motowheels.com/i-16588407-kn-filter-drycharger-cover.html (http://motowheels.com/i-16588407-kn-filter-drycharger-cover.html)
It does to some degree. I used outerwears, same thing.
the real threat is water collecting if you leave it parked in the wet. an abundance of moisture like that tends to disturb detonation.
FWIW, I ran them for a bit over a year and was riding year round in the PNW including a trip to LA, 2 seasons of track days and daily commuting. I had a full arrow system and a Power Commander that was tuned on the dyno of a shop with an excellent rep for engine building and tuning. After a year of having a bike that ran like crap in 90% of the RPM band I put my modified airbox with a high flow filter back on and all of a sudden the bike ran great all around again.
For a simple mod, the open airbox K&N filter one is easy and low cost. Tuning may still be an issue, but others will have been through it. The forum is good like that, someone somewhere has usually tried it first.
Even careful tuning on two carbed 900s with pods I tuned still gave a more layered feel to the power delivery than an open airbox. I do wonder if there is more slide flutter and therefore turbulence in CV carbs with pods. I have only tried pods on flatslide carbs. You would also think there was a better chance of tuning EFI and pods with less compromise, but real world results can be surprising. It's the layered feel of power that people seem to be unhappy with.
Ungeheuer has had good results with pods and velocity stacks on his 1100S, but he did a lot more than a simple tune up. His efforts were extensive. He also runs the outerwear covers.
The K&N outerwear covers are claimed to also smooth the airflow through the pods and are a first defence against rain and dust. If I run any pods in the future I will definitely try them.
Curious to see what you decide to do.
Brad, how much hassle do you think it would be to build a bigger airbox around pods? I'm keen to polish my turd of a 750 ;D its off the road for a while with everything else, and the carbs are being rebuilt at the very least.