Spiegler refuses to make them for fear that -3AN is insufficient...I found these, intended for a Suzuki:
http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/product.asp?idproduct=138 (http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/product.asp?idproduct=138)
And in the course of Googling I found this write up that actually recommends restricting oil flow to the heads which I don't quite understand:
http://www.musiccity-doc.org/Technical/2ValveRearHeadCooling.html (http://www.musiccity-doc.org/Technical/2ValveRearHeadCooling.html)
So what should I do about these lines? The banjo fittings with the larger holes are difficult to find, so I'm thinking of going with the Goodridge lines and normal banjos but I wanted to get the opinion of you all.
>>brainsplosion<<
this looks like the required big hole bolt
http://pitstopusa.com/i-5065487-aeroquip-steel-10mm-x-1-25-banjo-bolt.html (http://pitstopusa.com/i-5065487-aeroquip-steel-10mm-x-1-25-banjo-bolt.html)
Wowza, before I edited that just now it looked like a 14 year old typed it. More like auto incorrect.
It's 10x1.0. Looks like banjo bolts for turbo charger oil lines are similar also.
Ok, Apparently, according to some, the heads don't need the amount of oil that the OE lines are designed to provide. So I guess now I'm just wondering if I can use the AN-3 lines companies like Galfer/Spiegler, etc use with standard banjo fittings and move on. Sorry for such a confusing, poorly written post.
If you're talking about the lines from the *cylinders* to the alternator cover, those are return, not delivery.
If I wasn't typing, I would have in my hand an oil delivery line Kämna made for me. It's intended for cam cover delivery - coming from the oil pressure sensor fitting. (blocking the cylinder passage and converting to outside line, to finish off my stubborn oil leak). It has the ~2mm holes at both ends. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I'd like to believe that he knows what he's doing.
EDIT: I didn't get it at first - my post is about delivery, while the thread is about return. Please ignore.
can you get them from a dealer?
I got mine custom made (stainless) any Hydraulic hose shop should be able to do it...
Quote from: Speeddog on June 18, 2014, 03:07:49 PM
If you're talking about the lines from the *cylinders* to the alternator cover, those are return, not delivery.
Since I already have a 996 oil cooler with the line on top for return line, could I run the same setup?
http://motowheels.com/i-6921368-frentubo-cf-cylinder-head-oil-line-testastretta.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6921368-frentubo-cf-cylinder-head-oil-line-testastretta.html)
Quote from: monsta on June 18, 2014, 04:49:46 PM
I got mine custom made (stainless) any Hydraulic hose shop should be able to do it...
Thanks Monsta. Did you use normal banjos or ones with the larger holes as is standard?
I remember seeing Frentubo oil line kits for the old Monsters.
OK, I read that article you linked to.
I was initially skeptical, until I saw it was Bruce Meyers.
I've not done this mod on one, but I've got a recent candidate that may get this.
Just to explain the system a bit, the early cylinders have an oil jacket on them.
Oil is supplied from the crankcase, through a gallery, and across the cylinder/case interface (like many Ducs).
The oil is supplied to the head, through a restrictor bushing that has a ~1mm hole.
the rest of the oil goes into the oil jacket, and drains through those lines back into the cases.
Restricting the banjo bolt hole would push more oil into the head, for the cam/rockers/etc and serve to cool the head better.
I've not completely got my head wrapped around how the restriction pushes the air bubble out of the oil jacket.
Bruce has been fiddling with Ducs for quite a while, so I'm not inclined to think it's wrong.
Quote from: Buck Naked on June 18, 2014, 04:46:30 PM
Discontinued
Bollocks! That's going to be a persistent problem for the older bikes.
As monsta said, any decent hydraulic hose shop or racecar hose shop should be able to make a pair of those.
I've not got any laying around, so I can't give a length or hose size.
Quote from: Buck Naked on June 18, 2014, 04:56:09 PM
Thanks Monsta. Did you use normal banjos or ones with the larger holes as is standard?
same as standard.
Getting them made would give you any colour outer coating you like. The Frentubo one's I saw were blue lines with red fittings iirc. They were a specific kit for the oil jacket Monsters.
Quote from: koko64 on June 18, 2014, 05:26:11 PM
Getting them made would give you any colour outer coating you like. The Frentubo one's I saw were blue lines with red fittings iirc. They were a specific kit for the oil jacket Monsters.
You're pushing all of his buttons at once, be careful! [laugh]
Motowheels carries the frentubo oil line for the S4.
Might work...
http://motowheels.com/i-6921366-frentubo-kevlar-cylinder-head-oil-line-s4.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6921366-frentubo-kevlar-cylinder-head-oil-line-s4.html)
Quote from: Speeddog on June 18, 2014, 05:37:22 PM
You're pushing all of his buttons at once, be careful! [laugh]
I'm a proud enabler. [laugh]
Quote from: ducpainter on June 18, 2014, 05:46:09 PM
Motowheels carries the frentubo oil line for the S4.
Might work...
http://motowheels.com/i-6921366-frentubo-kevlar-cylinder-head-oil-line-s4.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6921366-frentubo-kevlar-cylinder-head-oil-line-s4.html)
Hmm, that's right, Kevlar. Surely they could chase up the old kit for BN? I remember the colours now, quite distinctive. Frentubo still make the oil cooler lines for old Monsters, so it's worth enquiring about the barrel drain lines.
Thanks for all the replies. Getting them made is something I've thought to go out and inquire about, I just prefer to problem solve and shop online.
The S4 kit DP posted seems essentially the same as the 996 "Kevlar" kit I asked about. If the lines are there just to drain oil back to the case, wouldn't draining to the oil cooler accomplish the same thing? I just have no idea if that would negatively effect oil pressure or not...I don't see how it would. It's just a different path back to the case is all..
Get the model specific kit, just to be sure. Email MW or Frentubo. I would.
Oil cooler is pressurized.
Sidecover is not.
The cylinders need to drain to a non-pressurized area.
^ That's why I was harping on about it. I was uneasy for a reason. ;D
Quote from: Speeddog on June 18, 2014, 10:18:23 PM
Oil cooler is pressurized.
Sidecover is not.
The cylinders need to drain to a non-pressurized area.
Got it. I want to use the extra inlet in my OC for my pressure switch anyway. So Speeddog if I'm understanding you correctly, custom lines with banjos that have smaller holes could not only work, but actually provide a benefit by improved cooling of the heads? The only thing that isn't quite clear is that Bruce Meyers only mentions this mod in regards to the vertical head, not both heads.
Looks like I'm going to have to make my own. I don't quite understand how Monsta was able to stroll into a hose shop in Australia and have them made, yet 3 fluid line companies in Cleveland OH all acted like I was speaking Greek when I showed them this line. Silliness. I need to move to Australia.
Within 15 mins there are two shops that will make oil lines and one that makes DOT approved brake lines. I don't understand it, so many shops make turbo oil lines.
I think it's the proximity to New Zealand.
Quote from: koko64 on June 19, 2014, 04:14:22 PM
Within 15 mins there are two shops that will make oil lines and one that makes DOT approved brake lines. I don't understand it, so many shops make turbo oil lines.
Maybe I should seek out a speed shop then...those are pretty much the same type of hose and fittings that turbo systems use.
MMmmm....New Zealand [drool]
Quote from: Speeddog on June 19, 2014, 05:35:12 PM
I think it's the proximity to New Zealand.
We have our share of turbo grey import cars. Ay!
Quote from: Buck Naked on June 19, 2014, 06:04:47 PM
Maybe I should seek out a speed shop then...
~~~SNIP~~~
Yeah, it's just an oil return line, no pressure to speak of.
There's hardly an easier line to make.
What about this? (wish I'd found this when shopping for brake lines) they sell DIY steel brake line kits with screw-on fittings and limitless color choices for bolts and fittings.
http://www.venhillusa.com/catalog/custom-brake-line-builder.html (http://www.venhillusa.com/catalog/custom-brake-line-builder.html)
I just wonder if a steel "brake line" would be a suitable replacement, they are thinner than what I'm working with here.
I just found what appears to be a deadstock frentubo oil cooler line set in the back of the shop. how many people would want a set if we were to duplicate them?
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on June 26, 2014, 10:37:47 AM
I just found what appears to be a deadstock frentubo oil cooler line set in the back of the shop. how many people would want a set if we were to duplicate them?
Are you in the business of making fluid lines?
I was able to find the old frentubo return lines. Only $60 new
We have a few sources for making lines. I just figured if multiple people wanted them I could kick it upstairs. maybe try and do a group buy and get everyone parts built to the old frentubo spec.
No clue what it would cost or if it would be worth it, not really trying to make a buck on em, I just figured if they are hard to come by and I have 1 good unit It would be good to make a few so that everyone could get em.
I bet an oil cooler line kit that was built like the Hypermotard lines would draw some interest.