Ducati Monster Forum

Aussie context, but open to all opinions and advice.
Learner/Probationary riders will soon have to wait three full years before they can get a full licence in my state. M600, M620 Lite and M659 are ok to ride as a beginner here since they all fall under the power to weight ratio formula used here for beginner bikes.
Got a guy who is looking for a small Monster that qualifies and it seems you might as well get something you really like rather than an interim bike due to the three year wait.
I have checked the local laws website on the legalities. People are desperately trying to book in to get their learner permits before the cut off date. This guy won't make it due to other issues holding up his licence testing, it's three years for him.

The M600 will be the cheapest, but they are all restricted power wise to qualify. All three bikes seem like useful and fun bikes. Guy is only 70kg and doesn't ride fast. Any tips or info on these models that may be relevant is appreciated.

Out of those, I would go with the M695 since it is a newer bike.  Nothing wrong with the M600 or M620 though, but purchasing one may require a little more upfront cost as they are older and my need tires and belts right from the beginning.

I also *think* the M600 would be carbed, if that matters to him.

JM

The 659 (696 with throttle restriction) is a great bike with all the mod cons and can be de-restricted if the owner wants to keep it after the 3 years is up but will need to go through the pain of re-classifying it which up here at least probably lowers the value of the bike.

The 620ie has dual front discs and FI which some people prefer and the the older looks with modern fueling.

The 600 is the old school of the bunch and therefore can be cheaper and single front disc as standard and carbed. Will need to find someone who can tune it....... ;D

From what i'm led to believe they all have a fairly simple throttle restrictor that can be removed once there probation is up!

JM the 695 cant be ridden on this type of license.

Didn't realize the 659 was a different bike, thought the it was a typo on 695.  We don't get the 659 here in the states.

As far as carbs and single disc on the M600?  My M750 is set up the same.  It has no issues going or stopping, even 2-up.  The only issue I've had with the carbs was the emulsification tubes got work around 30,000 miles and it ran really rich.  It starts easily with the choke, even in the cold.

JM

He might get a 600 for a good price. He's searching through bikesales.com like a fiend!  [laugh]

Thanks you blokes.

I would base my choice on which engine is easiest to "unrestrict" assuming you can get away with that.  Looks like the 659 has all the equipment of it's more powerful sibling.

m600 is by far the cheapest.  they get pretty cheap on bikes sales, and don't seem to sell.  the 400 seem to pull more money.

620 and 659 are more modern bikes.  the 659 is surprisingly quick for a lambs.  depends whether he likes the original or nouvo.

The 659 is a 696 just restricted i believe.

I'm not saying one is better then the other just pointing out some differences is all!  [thumbsup]
 

That's a thought Howie, thanks.
They seem quite up to date and well equipped. I saw a trick 695 with quickshifter, etc, but alas it aint a 659 LAMS bike. Maybe price might beat him down to an M600. The 620 Lite might be ok too. I note that there is quite a price hike for the 620 Lite and 659. I'm talking 8-10K!

Brad I wonder if the M600 is restricted at all, I doubt it. ;D

What fuel would they take? 95? Can the 600 with it's high comp get away with 91RON?

Used M696s are gonna be going cheap.

Not LAMS iirc. The Vicroads list only had <659. It's true what Brad said, the 400s are generally more expensive that the 600s, go figure. Even 620s had to be the "Lite" model. Sheesh. I reckon my old M900 should be LAMS in stock form [laugh].

Yeah Scoob, the 659 appears to just be a restricted 695 or 696? I'm confused. Same capacity, but choked down or governed at the TBs I guess?

You mean the 659 is a 696 with a throttle stop on it.........simple to remove but not recommended if in the event of an accident!

Exactly.  That's why used 696's are gonna be going cheap.  Cheaper than the leaner-sought-after 659.

Beats me why NFI continue to bother importing the 696 at all...... other than they have NFI.

659 is a lowered capacity, not just restricted 696.  LAMS requires sub 660cc.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/OtherLicences/MotorcycleLicences/Approvedmotorcyclesfornoviceriders.htm (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/OtherLicences/MotorcycleLicences/Approvedmotorcyclesfornoviceriders.htm)

 [laugh] [clap]

Ah yeah, I get it. So it's sleeved down too. Hmmm. The 695 had the old style and 696 the nuovo style, but same motor? I don't know anything about Monsters post 2001.[laugh]

695 is last of ye olde Monstere...

696 Monstre Nuovo..

same bore, same stroke....  1cc different capacity  [laugh]

LAMS 659 is a short stroked (not sleeved down) 696.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=49612.msg906425#msg906425 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=49612.msg906425#msg906425)

I think he'll like the old style for sure.
Thanks everyone.

Just part of what I love about this forum!  [thumbsup]

What's the 620 lite?  Never heard of that one

I would personally recommend the M620 . . light, fun and lots of mod parts available . . . or maybe, just maybe, I'm biased toward the M620 . . .

 I don't think that he can go wrong with any of them. Condition and price would likely be most important.

Don't forget Gumtree.  A few M620 lites there and all but one are advertised at below most of those on Bikesales.

Thanks Dave. I'll put him onto Gumtree.

620 lite is a 620 with throttle travel restrictor plate.  late 620 with 6 speed and aptc clutch.

659 is a destroked 696 also with the throttle travel restrictor plate.  an unrestricted 659 is sold in thailand i'm told.

696 are holding their value pretty well for now.  all 659 are restricted, so maybe it's better to have them that way to separate models given one is lams only.

600 is not restricted, it makes much less power than a 620.  they run ok on 91, but when i advanced the cams on mine it was noticeably rougher on 91 than 95.

the injected models are much nicer to ride, esp for a newbie.  the flat spot the little carbed ones have can be quite off putting, worse when cold.  m400 carb are even worse.

we had a bmw f650 riding girl take our m600 demo as a loaner one day.  she walked back in maybe 2 minutes later.  it was just around the corner, she couldn't handle it when cold.

we had one owner who complained about it bitterly and endlessly.  we couldn't make him understand that's how they were.  he'd pick it up after a service, sit on it and start it, then try to rev it up dead cold.  it'd stumble and he'd sit there, hanging his head and shaking it like we were morons.  it's just how they are, because the carbs are too big.

interestingly, f650 funduro have two 36mm mikuni carbs.

That's great info Brad. Cheers.

Brad, it makes you think about fitting a real stiff slide spring in hope of reducing the flat spot. 36mm Dellortos or 36mm Mikuni TM flatslides would help.

Slightly off topic.  I am a big fan of graduated licensing for street bikes.  Seen to many kids killed by too little control over their wrist.

When I grew up, we had graduated licenses. It was called "your wallet".  ;D

 Ya, my first bike was a Triumpn 200 Cub street version. It sounded cool, tho!

My 2nd was a 175 Cub Trials. Cool bike but some broke. Mine didn't before I could trade it for a 250 Ducati factory roadracer.  ;D You must be an old fart too!  8) Found a 200.

Triumph tigercub trials T20 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud1dV_xbQVg#)

Here until a few years back we had two categories of license: Restricted = 0-250cc then unrestricted was anything above but the problem with that was you had kids getting on RGV250/NSR250/TZR250/KR1s and the like which resulted in not many being round anymore. Now with the power to weight ratio and nothing above 660cc on a restricted license brings a whole lot of more practical bikes into the mix for learners and people who just want a cheap commuter. There were a couple of amusing bikes that were still allowed on this restricted license eg: RVF400 or VFR400, KTM350 and Husqvarna WR360  2 bangers which were bloody good fun!

For a short time up here if you had an open car license you were able to complete a competency based training and assessment weekend and come out with a full bike license which in my opinion was the most idiotic and lethal way to gain a license!

He snared a great deal on a low kms 620 Lite. He's pretty happy.

 [thumbsup]