Ducati Monster Forum

Hi all,

I've read up all the posts I could find here and elsewhere on replacing/removing the stock gauges, and anything that explains the Ducati immobilizer system. I thought I had learned what I needed to do, but I ran into a snag and wonder if anyone could help, as several members on this forum have gone this route before.

I have a 2003 M800ie and want to remove the stock gauges to replace with (possibly) the motogadget tiny. I went ahead and had my local bike shop deactivate the immobilizer. There was a bit of drama but in the end they told me the immobilizer was deactivated. The ECU is otherwise stock, no new maps, and the bike drives normally. However when I disconnect the dash gauges, the bike won't start.

The shop tells me this is because power is routed through the dash and I will have to 'close this circuit' and suggests I find a wiring schematic. Nothing I've read discusses this issue, and my impression was that the gauges could be removed with impunity once the ECU had a deactivated immobilizer. So did I miss something, or is the immobilizer still working?

I thought of an experiment to prove my theory, I was going to 'disassemble' the RFID from one of my black keys (with a hammer) and see if the bike starts with the dash connected properly. If it doesn't, then I guess I will need to have a chat with the bike shop regarding their work. Does anyone have another suggestion before I start breaking things?

Many thanks.

disconnect the dash and start bike, if it starts, you're ready to go

If it doesn't start with the dash removed, the immobilizer is still enabled. The shop is wrong.

You don't have to hammer anything.

Merely unplug the antenna (it 's inside the keyswitch surround).

hammering can be fun though.

thorn is right.  whenever i've disabled an immo on a monster i can always start the bike with the dash unhooked.  they may have virginised the ecu, but the immo is still active in the software file and so it wants an input from the dash.

Would he be able to tell immobilizer function by the light on the dash?  For anyone who has disabled the immobilizer, does the light still flash while the bike is off? 

Indeed, and I missed that his toolbox was full of hammers.

The light still blinks for 48 hours as if it was enabled while the engine and key position is off (or steering locked). When you turn the key position to on I forget what happened before/now. When on with no throttle input it's a steady light until you twist it once, then off until you shut off the engine.

I seems to vary from "tuner to tuner". . . the ones I have had redone, they blink, once ign ON goes off . . .

Or you can have it programmed as a shift light

Man, I would have loved a shift light!

take it out, resend it . . . have them program it that way . . .

if you reflash the ecu then it just ignores the dash.  the dash still behaves in the same way as it did before, as it has not changed.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll make sure it starts with the dash on and the antenna disconnected. If not I'll have a little chat with the shop, and probably ship the ecu to Ducati Depot to have it de-immobilized for real. Probably shoulda done that in the first place, I was trying to 'keep it local' much to my regret.

I'll post again when the problem is solved. Thanks all.

Update:

I took Speeddogs advice and unplugged the key antenna with the dash connected (thanks!). Sure enough, no start. So the consensus is correct and the immo must still be active. I'm taking it back to the shop and the mechanic says he will have another look at it.

Some further info I glossed over before, in the interest of brevity  - the 'drama' I originally mentioned was that the original ECU got fried when he first tried to flash it - in the midst of the flash process something lost connectivity, maybe a ground wire, it wasn't clear, and the ECU just stopped responding. He ended up sourcing (and paying for) another 5.9 MM ECU for my bike with stock maps, (tried to) de-immobilize the new one, and that's what's running the bike now (and it runs fine, can't tell the difference). As I understand the way the immobilizer system works, the dash checks that the key is correct and just sends an "all clear" message to the ECU - doesn't matter if the ECU has changed, it will still look for and respond to a signal from the dash if it has an active immobilizer. It needn't be paired with the dash otherwise.

I'm asking because I'm trying to shoot down his theory, which is "with the new ECU the bike wouldn't run at all unless the immobilizer was already de-activated". Back me up?

Much appreciated.

I was under the impression that his theory is correct.

Was it a new, never before paired to a dash ECU?

if the ecu came from a 996r/998 then it never had an immo so it might work with just a reflash.

if it was virginised then it should run fine as long as all the immo system is connected.  this is not part of flashing, it's an external operation as such.

to disable the immo you change the flash file, it's just a 0/1 switch thing in the software.  then it will run without the dash, etc.

I'm not sure where the ECU came from, I can ask him but I'm guessing it was from a bike that was parted out.

So Brad, if I understand correctly, the fact that the ECU is new and the bike runs fine does not necessarily mean that the immo was deactivated. I can't see any other reason (apart from an active immobilizer) that disconnecting the key antenna would disable the bike. You said the immo is not part of the flashing but a different operation - I'm just speculating but it could be he just flashed it and expected that to do the trick.

I will take it up this week and he's agreed to have another look, I'll hang out and watch his work and hopefully the issue will be settled. I'm hoping it isn't an issue with his software setup, the computer-y bits of a bike are generally beyond me (I'm more of a concrete thinker as my wife reminds me). Any tips on what I should be seeing?

Thanks all! I'm looking forward to resolving this, switching gauges and posting a pic or two.

to disable the immo you have to reflash the ecu with a file that has the immo switched off in the file code.

to virginise an ecu you don't reflash the ecu, you run the procedure required.  i can do it with the same tool that flashes, but it's not the same procedure.

if it won't run without the dash the immo is still active.

Final Update:

I took it back to the shop and gave it another go, and now it's been properly de-immobilized. I've got the gauges off and it runs like a top.

The shop owner and I mused about what may have happened, here's a couple theories for anyone else who ends up in this scenario.

-he was using Ducati Diagnostic (the french program?) and emailing with its author after we ran into trouble. It's possible the first ECU got fried because the battery was weak and dropped it's output too low (despite being hooked to a tender) during the rewrite process.

-when he got the new ECU (also a 5.9MM from another M800) it initially didn't run the bike. He ran it through the process with the software, but did it on the bench, disconnected from the bike to avoid the problem he had the first time. After processing it the ECU ran the bike, which is why he'd thought he de-immobilized it at that point (the point at which I got it back and found it didn't run with the dash disconnected). In retrospect at that point he'd virginized it without de-activating the immo.

-today he repeated the process after giving my battery a good charge, this time with the ECU remaining connected to the bike. This time it worked and the immo is deactivated, I can disconnect the gauges and the key antenna, no problems.

It seems the difference was made running the software with the ECU connected to the bike as opposed to on the bench. This guy was ready to listen when I told him of the problem and he stood by his work, especially impressive when you consider what I paid him came nowhere near what he spent in parts, let alone time, to sort me out. I'd def recommend him to anyone in T.O.

Thanks very much to all the members who responded, helped to figure out the problem, give me the knowledge to know the immo was still working, and the confidence to go back and raise the issue with the shop. Much appreciated.

Glad you got it figured out!

Late final post - after deactivating that immobilizer last summer, I got me a motogadget tiny, cut a bracket, painted some stuff, dealt with wiring, and crammed it all into place. This is the result, thanks to all the members who gave their advice.

(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b487/Thump1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiehxkaq.jpg) (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/Thump1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsxiehxkaq.jpg.html)

(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b487/Thump1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdsewok3g.jpg) (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/Thump1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdsewok3g.jpg.html)

(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b487/Thump1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjjp9qrqh.jpg) (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/Thump1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjjp9qrqh.jpg.html)

(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b487/Thump1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps5citqn8y.jpg) (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/Thump1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps5citqn8y.jpg.html)

(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b487/Thump1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsaft42rj4.jpg) (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/Thump1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsaft42rj4.jpg.html)