Ducati Monster Forum

So I did an oil change on my S4 last night, and decided to try Motul 300V which I've never used before. The first thing that stood out at me was the fact that it was flourescent green! I felt like I was filling my engine up with antifreeze.  [laugh]
The stuff ain't cheap, but I decided to give it a whirl, and I'm glad I did.

I was excited, because when I inspected the drain plug magnet + screen, I found almost NO metal shavings or chrome bits  :D, which would've suggested that my rocker arms were flaking. I figured I'd see more gearbox shrapnel from those days of trying to practice clutchless downshifting  [roll].

So I poured the Motul in, let it get up to the top like in the sight glass, then ran the engine for about 5 minutes and let it settle back for an hour. I was then able to top it off + take the bike for a shakedown ride, and all I can say is WOW!!  :D  The engine ran VERY smooth compared to how I'm accustomed to it running. Noticably so!! I have posted numerous threads on here about how I thought I had air in my clutch line due to clunky shifting, but now I've changed my mind. I adjusted my clutch lever pull length a bit, and that combined with the fresh Motul in the gearbox made it shift silky smooth, almost effortless. I've never felt that for as long as I've owned this bike!! I just thought that "clunky" is how this gearbox is supposed to feel.

We all know engines like fresh oil. In conclusion, I don't know how different Motul 330V really is from other synthetic oils, but in all my history of changing the oil in motorcycle + car engines, I've NEVER seen an engine that loves it's new oil more than my 916 engine w/Motul 300V in it. Last oil change was with Mobile1 Synthetic, and this is night + day compared to the first ride with that.

I'd say that everyone should give it a shot. My father said that it's all in my head (he used to race motorcyles), but I can assure you it's not!! There was a drastic improvement over the engine performance when the Mobile1 was first added, I'm sure of it.  [thumbsup]

Sorry, but your dad's right.

 [laugh]  Yeah?!?

You're not the first person who's said this to me. It's more the gearbox that feel smoother than anything. Honest to god it feel smoother than I've ever felt it. I've heard people dis Motul in the past, how come? Is there something I'm missing?

any diff in operating temp?

Not that I've noticed. In retrospect I probably should've waited a while to see what kind of viscosity breakdown occurs as opposed to the Mobil1 before posting my opinion.

My Father (here right now): "Well Duh!! ALL oil is going to make the engine run smoother at first. Talk to me at 3k.  [coffee] "

-Fair enough. New Thread Topic: Who runs Motul and what do you think? I like it after 24 hours!!   ;D  [laugh]

I'm not dissing Motul.  I'm dissing the idea that there is any noticeable difference between any two brands of oil; whether its synth or dino.

I gotta agree on this one:  05 S2R 3000mi first change put in dino oil.  When it got warmed-up the engine/valve train rattled like hell and the shifts felt like someone was dropping boulders beside me on the road.  Forget clutchless downshifting - I was stressed-out enough about cluch-assisted upshifting.  Went to dealership (Skagit).  Told them the story. Service guy said the only thing they use in the Ducati is 300V.  I looked at the $54 price on a gallon and laughed out loud.  Right; they only use 300V b/c they make a fortune selling over-priced French oil to idiots.  ... ...  Being a desperate idiot, I bought a gallon and a filter and skulked out of the dealership. 

I couldn't get over the diff either.  it was night and day.  The motor behaves the same at lo temp as at 220F.  The tranny when cold is a little clunky but when she warms up it shifts with the lightest touch and a reassuring 'bump'...  The whole machine sounds like a symphony.  If I had a dry clutch singing away with the symphony, folks would applaud and ask for an encore as I drove by.

Now at 5500mi.  Same performance.  Still a beautiful thing......  It's green.  It's wierd smelling.   It's French.  Whatever.  I say throw a can down the hatch and let the symphony begin!!

I have been running 300V for over 12k miles and I have noticed that my bike runs cooler and the motor is smoother. I run a Moto Detail temp gauge and have kept track in various conditions for the last 5 years.  I was skeptical at first but I must say that I am sold on Motul 300V. Prior to I was running 5100 Ester Synthetic blend by Motul. Changes are every 3000 miles. As far as the cost, it is expensive but I buy in bulk from Motodepot so that helps. My 2 cents.

Every thing I have heard about Motul is that is is a first rate product, I have been told there is a fair amount of moly in there. I do not know how it holds up long term but I have never seen gearbox damage from bikes running motul. My only complaint would be that it leaves the internal parts coated in black sludge, this could have been the ester based oil but any bikes running it were black inside when you pulled the covers.

I'm not sure that the proper function of an oil that lubricates an engine is to reduce transmission noise.  There is a balance that must be reached between what the crank needs (30-50W) and what the tranny needs (80-90W).  Maybe the moly sticks to the gears and not the crank (haha) or maybe theres something else going on.  But, today's oils are essentially all of the same quality.  All the oil manufacturers spend a lot of money on their research chemists, and they really do look at the formulations of their competitors' oils with expensive equipment.  Of course, they also spend a lot of time on marketing and customer education.  Brand loyalty is a powerful thing.  I doubt anyone could point out an engine or transmission failure and say "that was caused by using such and such brand oil".

My old 900CR has 58,000 miles; all Castrol GTX.  I have a MCN article here about a CBR900RR with 240,000 miles; all done on Castrol GTX.  A coincidence?  Yes, actually it is.  Both Mike Case (CBR owner) and I use the cheapest oil we can find: Castrol GTX.

After years of selling brand x oil and then tearing the motors down to freshen them (race bikes) when you see the bikes that ran brand x oil had spauling of the teeth in the transmission and the bikes that ran brand y did not you stop selling brand x. I get to see gearboxes that have teeth eroded to the point that they were a liability. These days it is common on higher mileage motors that the bikes have  not been well maintained.

Does this mean that you can only use "the best" oil? No, price does not = good oil. It may help in many instances but it is not a sure thing. There are plenty of low dollar oils out there that will perform fine as well, you just need to do your home work. I am funny about oils If there is a oil I have tons of first hand knowledge from years of use and teardowns I stick with it. I know there are many others that would work as well but why mess with success? We each have our comfort envelope of what we are willing to try. I try to keep my oil testing to certain motors that are well lets just say expendable.

There are a few that are being beaten hard right now , time will tell.

The transmission in my bike prefers Mobil 4T 10W-40 or Klotz 20W-50.  Never tried Klotz 10W-40.  Each bike will be different, depending on wear and manufacturing tolerances.  All we, the typical consumer (not ducvet) really know about what we are putting in our bikes is it meets the specs written on the container, API and JASO standards.   Even claims of full synthetic can be bogus.  True racing oils may not be good for a street machine since they are often formulated for low friction and maximum power, not  long engine life.

Anyone have a link to that amsoil oil research? It was amsoil biased, but it did give information of many other brands inicluding motul,mobil 1, royal purple (car oil) and many others.

I personally run Repol semi synthetic right now, and sadly i cannot find any reviews on that oil. (hey if repsol races with their own stuff ( i hope) then it must be good right?) Was only 30 bucks for 4 liters. I might just go with generic mobil 1 full synthetic for cars next time since my dry clutch is not bathed in oil.

Chris @ ca-cycleworks does not sell motul, and he told me why, i remember the not so important reason, but i cant seem to remember the actualy reason why motul sucks as an oil. Maybe 300V is different than the regular motul stuff, but i remember on amsoils oil test, the 300v did get ratings in the top 3 most of the time.

All industry oil "research" papers are biased toward the sponsoring company.


There's a commercial that plays on TV now and again where this old bat says "They give it away for free?  It must be good."  Think  about it.

As I mentioned in a previous post, oil companies spend a lot of money just on sampling the competitors oils contents.  You don't think there's some sort of ethical code that prevents Mobil 1 from buying Shell oils, do you?  There's also the issue of API specs.  When those change, oil formulations change - and they don't even bother to changing the name on the bottle.  I haven't kept up with oils issues, but I remember a time when there were oils sold without an API seal, but with a pseudo API code on the bottle.  This was back in the API SH days, I think, when the flack about moly was in full swing.

I wish i could find the article, but everything you said was absolutely spot on to what i read. And as far as the saying "they give it away for free? it must be good" Thats how Motul operates from what retailers have told me. As for the Amsoil oil research article, yes it is bias, but its still intresting to see how other oils stack up to other oils in the eyes of amsoil. These are the same guys that made the oil filter that makes new oil cleaner too but i'm not sure if you should read that with a  [roll] or  [clap].

I had used 300V since my 620 was new and had never had an issue with it (other than the cost and availability!) Recently switched to Mobil 1 Twin 20W-50 after a move to deep S. Texas where it is REALLY hot and Motul is not to be found. Can't tell a bit of difference, and the M1 is only half the cost.

I've been runnning motul 5100 10w40 for the last 12,000 miles. I have almost 15k on the bike. My last monster I used mobil 4t every time. On that bike, my clutch started slipping at 15k. We'll see how long it holds on on this bike. But I have a feeling that fully synthetic oils (especially Mobil 4T) are too slippery for wet clutches. Hence the long term test with Motul. So far everything has been exactly the same experience with Motul as Mobil. Feels the same. DOESNT feel the same in the pocket book though. Its almost half the price.

If the oil you are using says JASO MA on the container it is designed for wet clutches.  AFAIK, though Motul 300 meets 4T standards it does not meet JASO MA standards.

I have been using Motul 300 in the S4 and its a good  oil , very good film on motor surfaces like the all important rockers even after standing for long period unused.

How long have you actually let an engine sit before pulling the cams to check for oil film?

1+ for the Motul V 300 15w 50; I switcherd in my M800 after much chatting with several bike shops and dealerships; it costs extra but after 3,000 miles its just tinge darker; it made a difference in a smooter and more positive shifts; plus the bike runs cooler; from 190 F at 60 MPH on a hot day, usually hovers at 210 F city driving to hot idling city driving it may hit 220 F (it sounds like but is not a paid advertisemsnt nor do I have any financial intrests in Motul...)

One of the primary functions of a motor oil is to hold contaminants (mostly carbon) in suspension.  You can tell it's performing this function by watching it get darker.  If an oil isn't getting darker, it's dumping the gunk somewhere, and it's probably not in the filter.

Do a change with Motul and get back to us.  I've noticed a big difference in just about every application I've used Motul products in, from my BMW R75/5 to my '99 Triumph Sprint and Monster M900.

For that matter, I just changed the Porsche to 6100 and I no longer think I need a tune up.  It's THAT much smoother.  I thought there was something wrong with my  '81 MotoGuzzi v-50 transmission.  I'd put Valvoline synth gear lube in when I bought it and two weeks ago when I changed it to Motul 80W-90 it completely cleared up the difficult shifts, clunkyness, and hard to find neutral.

I'll pass, thanks.  Nothing would be served by fixing what isn't broke.

Does anyone know if George from TOB made the switch over here or if he has a perspective on the 300v?

An update:

I did a search on crs-america and motul.  Can you guess what I found on the advrider board, dlearl?


Posted by:
dlearl476
Beastly Adventurer


Shame

Why?  Why would I not recomend the oil that I believe in to the point I became a dealer for it and recommend it for the bikes I sell.  Did I offer to sell it here.  Did I even hint at that being my motivation?

It's good.  Don't believe me.  Put YOUR money where your mouth is, like I did.

Take a sample of the oil you use, before and after your prefered service interval.  Do the same with Motul 300V.  (Disregard any "seat of the pants" science you get from the obvious differences in your motor's running.  It's "all in your head".  ;D )

Send it to these guys: http://www.oillab.com/oil.html and let THEM tell you what's what.

my bike has only had 300v after its first fill up at the factory.

Now this is just silly.  You become a dealer to make money.  Motul is a premium oil so you make premium money for it.  Stop the hypocritical nonsense.  You're a dealer for Motul, so say that UP FRONT; not after someone catches you at it.


I've already told you once that there's no need to fix something that isn't broken.  Iti may actually do something a bit better than the cheaper oils.  Does it matter?  No, as a matter of fact, it makes no difference at all.  Once something is good enough, it doesn't buy you anything to pay four times the price to get marginal improvements over what is already just fine.

No, silly is going off half-cocked before you know what you're talking about.  I'm a dealer for several lines of product so I can get them at cost.  I chose those particular lines because I believe they offer a benefit over what's available at Checker/Zone/Boys.  I don't advertise the fact in DMF because, without being a sponsor, it's against the rules.  fwiw, I personally use about 90% of the products I buy from my Motul rep, which includes Motul products and UNI filters.  The other 10% is sell pretty much at cost + shipping to folks I know from several MC websites.  I financially support the websites, like ADVrider, for spreading the word.  I would love to do it here, but the vig for becoming a sponsor is about 25 times what I make selling that 10% in a year.


Helloooo, this is an OIL THREAD.  These are OPINIONS.  You have yours, I have mine.  Have you ever had oil TESTED to see what the difference between cheap oil and expensive oil is, before and after their service interval? 


And the same could be said of the cost, to people who believe that better is better than "good enough".   A long time ago on another forum I coined a phrase: "Clean oil is better than dirty oil and dirty oil is better than no oil"  Same holds true for price.  Will your motor self destruct in 10,000 miles from using automobile engine oil from Checker?  Probably not.  Is there value in running 300V synthetic which has operating temperature 80 degrees higher and three times the anti-wear, anti-corrosion, and crud additive package in an air-cooled motorcycle in the desert (where I live)?  I happen to think so.  You're entitled to your own opinion.

Have a nice day.

Oh fun, another tech thread with you two in a pissing match.

why don't you both go back to focussing on the topic instead of on each other?

dlearl476, nothing wrong with saying what you do in terms of rules here, but it's not a requirement either.   If you were selling stuff here I'd ask for a minor sponsorship level.

hedgehog, I don't think you've uncovered a huge conspiracy here.   If it changes your opinion about his opinion fine, we've established that.   Oil is like gas, some people will swear others are chumps for buying pricier stuff than they believe needed.

Oil threads always devolve to pissing matches.   [laugh]

 ;D

I was hoping we could make it to 5 or so pages first.       [beer]

YO, Statler.  Wake up, you're dreaming.   ;D

Point taken, hatchet buried.

Why are you guys in such a bad mood, its Friday!  Its only opinions.   Plus you know what they say...  opinions are like ass-holes, everyone has one.  As far as the 300V question, I put it in a past 695 only 200 miles after the 600 mile service and noticed a huge difference in tranmission smoothness, no more clunking ;).  I read on the DML what people what people were already reporting that it improved shifting.  The real reason I changeed the oil is because of its thermal stability, 695's run HOT ! No oil cooler and lean, lean, lean and what they put in at the 600mi service was a synth/dino hybrid. Anyway I up graded to a the S4R and after 600 mile breakin I put Motul 300V in again.  Did not notice such a big difference probably because the S4R trans is a lot better quality than the 695? Water cooled engines run soo much cooler. [thumbsup]  Anyway I was reading about Amsoil and thier new oil filter and its positive reviews so I though I'd give them both a try it at 1200mi.  For a new engines I like to change the oil at least twice before dropping to longer service intervals.   Did not notice much of a difference between the two but thats not the reason I use a premium synthetic oil.  Its because I run the liven shit out of the engine during track days.  My opinion is any good quality synthetic will do fine.  There's been some reports on various forums tha Motul 300V does not have any or very little corrosion inhibitors and leaving it in for long periods could lead to internal corrosion?  But that may be what seperates a racing oil with its short change intervals to a road type oil with stabilizers for long change intervals?  George is the expert in this area, not me.

   

Ducnial,

Here's the synopsis of why I distrust any motor oil that gives a huge difference in transmission smoothness, etc.  Back in the 70s, the major oil companies thought they had found a wonder chemical.  It did exactly what you want (more, better, smoother).  This chemical was chlorine.  Unfortunately, the side effect of elevated levels of chlorine is that it makes bearing and gear surfaces gall.  This is not a good thing.  When it came down to it, the Prolong trade-name additive was just more chlorine snake oil with "a better way of formulating it".  As if.  So, when someone says that they notice better smoother shifting, the first thing I think of is more chlorine and eventual galling.  Could Motul have a more better way of using chlorine, or something else right by it on the periodic table?  I dunno, and don't care.  I'll stick with the stuff that I know works, and that I know isn't going to cause galling problems.  Unfortunately, it doesn't come with a cool sticker.   

If you can't make a choice based off the info in this thread, you won't get it!

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0

I thought one of the most interesting recommendations George made was to use neodymium magnets on your filters. The magnet will make the cheapest, worst performing filter more efficient than the most expensive, highest quality filter.  I picked up six for my bike, cars, and friends for $10. 

www.rare-earth-magnets.com

"You know what the best kind of oil for your bike is? Clean oil." - a Duc tech I know

 [beer]

Adam

Your all retards!!!! Italian bikes need Italian oil.

I run EEV Olive oil in mine. pregnant doges.  [laugh]

Check out post #17  [wine] Great minds think alike!

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/general-monster-forum/174439-mixed-cocktail-engine-oil-2.html (http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/general-monster-forum/174439-mixed-cocktail-engine-oil-2.html)

Adam