Ducati Monster Forum

I want to start by saying I cannot vouch for the validity of this claim, but it was made on the inferior board and I wanted to get your take on it. Would a dealer do this? Would it be legal? Would it concern you?

So karlh over there says Bob Weaver Motorsports in Western New York had an 1100 20th anniversary edition on the showroom floor for sale. He then had a customer bring in an 1100 evo that needed repairs, but because of the Italian vacation couldn't get the parts from Ducati fast enough. So the dealer wheels the bike from the showroom floor into the garage and uses it as a donor for the customer bike.

The concern is that the dealer, when he finally got the parts from italy, put the 1100 anniversary edition back together and will now sell it as a new bike.

Is that possible? Is it wrong? I don't think I'd want that bike.

It's possible and totally legal so long as it was no more than a few components. As to "wrong", depends on the dealer's competence I'd imagine and your take on that. He DID after all, look after his customer.

If it were MY dealer, I'd be OK with it. Maybe "better" than new. He'd also stand behind it 200%. Run of the mill dealer? Not so much. YMMV.

  I was wanting to buy a new 07 s4rs from a dealership. This was the last one they had and it had paint chips, scratches on the rear sets and side panels from being pushed around the sales floor. I mentioned to the sales person that I wanted a deep discount for the damage and he said if I wanted to take it home today he would switch out the parts from another bike so I could take it home.

  I believe until the bike is registered, it is "new" would be my best guess.

Well did you get it? Is the S4rs the greatest monster ever made??!

 No  :'(.   I regret not getting one because I want one now! I could not decide between buying the s4rs and s4r titanium that was left over.  I returned a couple weeks later and both bikes were gone!   :o

Interesting.  My local dealer had a 750 Sport (this was back in 2002) that started life as a Dark.  The mechanic assembled it and took in on a shakedown ride and dropped it.  We're talking a parking lot type drop when you rash the plastics a bit, bend the clutch etc.  Pretty minor drop.  However, the owner of the shop was telling me that since it had been damaged and had to be repaired he had to sell it as used.  It was a great price (should have bought it but didn't) something like nearly $2K less than MSRP for a new one.

I don't know if that was a NC law driven thing or if the owner just had a moral issue with selling a repaired bike as new.  It's a bit different from the OP's situation as the showroom bike wasn't damaged though.

A [thumbsup] to the dealer for taking care of the customer and not making them way forever because of the holiday though.  I would trust my local dealer to do the same thing, the bike would be better than new if they swapped parts around like that.  Most likely in a case like that, it would go back to the showroom with some bling but still be at MSRP so a buyer would get quite a deal.

the dealer in question will now no doubt have a whole load of people turning up asking about a cheap new m1100, telling him he's an arsehole for selling a used bike as new, but declaring they're willing to let him off if he gives them a big discount.

and the next time someone really needs him to pull some new parts off a bike on the floor to help them out, and he refuses they'll call him an arsehole too.

lucky him.

THIS [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

Who knows. All this noise might even help him sell it. Dealers are not usually in a position to store last edition machines until they become collector's items.  ;D It's a "leftover".  8)

If a serious buyer appeared, I'm sure I'd find mutual ground. I'm a salesman.  ;) Jerks I'd tell to pound salt. Business is a two-way street.

BTW, neither I nor this dealer would likely offer a bike as "new" if the cases had been cracked. I'd add the bike to the "demo fleet" for 6 - 12 months and write it down.

FWIW, my bike was fairly far apart prior to delivery. Read my signature line. Hmmm...  :)

The "new" is still new. It's as if it was damaged in transport and had the damaged new parts replaced with undamaged new parts. While it could delay the dealer from selling the new bike, as long as he orders the exact same parts he took off, why would it matter?

If the dealer borrowed a piston or other internal part, not good.  A small part, like a lever, no problem.  This is done all the time.

Yeah, I agree. I was assuming it was bodywork or similar. I would have a problem with them pulling the engine apart.

this is the horror that is my life. and when i pull the trigger quickly, i often end up regretting it, like with my hp4. i wish i'd bought and s4rs instead of an hp4...

It depends what they took off of it.  If it was the engine then yeah, I'd say that's wrong, but if it was a wheel or mirrors or an electronic component I would say it's not big deal.

Same as everyone else, if it was just cosmetic parts, I dont see that it's a big deal.  Different if it was him digging into the bike and pulling stuff out.

I say Hats off to the dealer he made a frustrated customer happy and the bike will be back to its first class condition when it gets fitted with the new parts... [bow_down]

Geoff... [coffee]

^^ This.

we've done it 2 times . . . Dealers must do what they must in order to keep customers happy . . . Usually parts are little stuff that can be replaced with no clue they have been replaced . . . Me personally, tell the customer that certain parts were replaced "under warranty" . . . just in case they do notice

Found out it was the throttle bodies and ECU they took off the Anniversary Edition.

I'm not sure why this is even an issue quite frankly.  ZOMG!!!  The dealer took a part that was lovingly crafted just for my special bike off to put on a customer's bike!

Trust me, if you actually ride your bike, stuff will need to be replaced.

A dealer in Italy did this for me.

Was on the way to WDW and the generator went out. He pulled the part, and got me on the road in a few hours, over lunch.

Not a question, taking care of me is how they will take care of the purchaser of the bike they used as a donor. Just great business!

I was buying a new 1190 (KaTooM) earlier this year.  I had already put down a Holding Deposit on a Cash Deal.  The Bike was sitting on the Showroom Floor waiting for me to arrive home, pay the balance and ride it home.  My daughter stopped at the Shop to see the new Bike and noticed that the Rear Tire looked like it had done a couple of thousand clicks.  She asked the Salesman about it.  He told her that they had swopped out the Rear Wheel for a Valued Customer since his Rim was bad.  They had a new Rim on order and would fit it and a new Tire before I would need to ride it home.  Clearly I would not have known had my daughter not stopped there on that day.

New Rim, new Tire, not-so-new Rear Sprocket and who knows what care would be taken doing the rest of the Transplant?  I am normally the only one who works on my Rides after the PDI (and I even repeat that myself).  Simply because I have learnt not to trust just any Dealer.

I cancelled the Purchase and reported the Dealer to KTM in-Country who had the Dealer Principal offer me an 1190 discounted and delivered to my house – after witnessing them unboxing it.  So my local Dealer retained a Valued Customer at the cost of losing a Prospective Customer.

I have owned many Used Bikes.  I guess when I buy a New one I really want it to be entirely new.  I suppose that I am a d!ck too – tough.  I might even have been more sympathetic if the Dealer had contacted me first.  Maybe not – since I had already put Money down on that particular Bike.

Dealers invariably have Demo Models available that they can cannibalize if they need to help a Customer.  Or they can borrow him another (used) Bike, if he is that valued.  What they should not do is underestimate/disrespect the quirky preferences of the next fistful of $$$ walking into the Showroom; especially if there are other Showrooms around.

I agree that once a bike is sold it should not be touched.

Agreed.

To play devil's advocate... the dealer did manage to keep one customer happy and the one that probably comes in all the time for really minor services (went to the dealer to buy a brand new rim for a dented one vs banging it out).  Whereas it seems that for you, you're only going to stop by the dealer to pick up your bike and never see him again.  And the dealers, almost all of their income is from the service dpt.  And since the full amount hadn't been paid, I'm guessing the title wasnt in your name and the bike was still legally theirs.

I dont agree with what was done but I'm pretty sure that dealer's thought process was something akin to that.  If that the swap had never been caught, he would have had 2 happy customers and if he swapped the rear sprocket... there would have been no real functional difference.

Same here.  Use white glove delivery and please keep it in a climate controlled garage too so it is pristine when you finally sell it to me.

The KTM mentioned above wasn't sold though...he had just put a deposit on it. Sold means paid for, which it wasn't. People back out of deposits all the time.

I don't see what the problem was anyway. When he picked up the bike it would have been completely brand new either way. Who cares if the rear wheel and tire were installed at the factory, or at the dealer? It's not like the wheels and bike are magically paired together at the factory, and no other wheel and tire will work correctly.  :P The bike was still entirely new. Care doing the "transplant"? It's only changing a friggin' rear wheel!! The bike required the dealer to do more than that when it arrived in the crate before it could be sold!

The slightly used sprocket comment doesn't make sense either. Why would they have left a used sprocket on it if they had ordered a completely new rim and tire? I'm sure it would have been all replaced new.

There's no logic to refusing the bike IMO.

expecting logic is a sure path to disappointment.

[clap]

I guess I'm in the minority here but I don't think the bike with replaced parts should be sold as new without full disclosure, and I feel refusing it for this is not unreasonable. Reason being pretty simple...I want my new Ducati assembled in Bologna, on Ducati's assembly line, by Ducati's employees/techs who are hired, trained, and paid for that purpose and rubber stamped by Ducati's quality control process. Is that really so unreasonable and irrational of me, even before we begin discussing the amount of incompetent dealers out there? Seems legit to me.

Also, rationalizing treating a customer's bike who puts a deposit on it any different than one whose bike is paid in full isn't ethical at all. Defeats the whole purpose of leaving the deposit in the first place. That's a demonstration of good faith on the customers part and it needs to be reciprocated.

Rejecting the bike because it had a rear wheel changed is unreasonable IMO. Pretty much anyone can swap out a rear wheel. It's not like they swapped a motor or a swingarm or something. It's a rear wheel...something that will be taken on and off again dozens and dozens of times. C'mon...QC process...really?? 

You realize that dealers have to do some prep. work to bikes before they are delivered, correct?

When you have to disassemble the bike to this point just to adjust the valves and replace the belts you'll have to excuse me when I chuckle at what you just posted.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/243lshd.jpg)

You probably won't want to buy my bike.  I did this work myself and I'm not a "hired, trained, and paid for" Ducati tech.  :D

That logic doesn't compute unless the dealer has to adjust the valves and replace the belts as soon as it's removed from the crate ;).

 It's not even to be nit picky, when you buy a brand new bike you're paying a premium for a brand new bike. otherwise, if one follows your logic, buy a used bike and save $3000+.

Also...there's a LOT of home mechanics I trust more than my local dealer and the "trained" Ducati "techs" that get paid to "work" there. ;)

Meh, if they can't remove a wheel and reinstall it correctly they have no business selling motorcycles in the first place.

Oh it was just a wheel? I was lazy and didn't investigate the thread before posting.

Funny you mention that.  A friend of mine ordered a set of brake lines for his Sport Classic from a Ducati dealer (I won't mention any names-it wasn't Moto Forza though) and when they came in he rode down to have them installed but the lines they got in didn't fit so they ordered another set, which also didn't fit so they tried to modify them to make them fit by trying to bend one of the fittings which promptly broke off.  Needless to say, my friend was less than impressed with their attention to detail and attempts at making a critical part like a brake line work on his bike.  He decided to do all his own work on his bikes from then on.  [beer]

That was one of the latest response in this thread, guy said he refused to buy a bike because they had removed the rear wheel from a bike he had put a deposit down on and installed it on a customer's bike.  The parts removed from the bike in the original post were the ECU and the throttle bodies.

ECU is no big deal, it is pretty easy to remove and they're all loaded with the same map from the factory anyway.  The throttle bodies?  I can kind of see where you wouldn't want them messing around with that but as long as the bike runs fine it probably wouldn't put me off buying it.  What would concern me more would be the problem they were trying to cure on the customer's bike... is this going to happen to my bike?

I agree. A deposit mean's it's sold until the buyer declines the bike for whatever reason. I just bought a car that someone else had placed a deposit on. The dealer wouldn't even drive it out onto the front lot to show it to me until the buyer lifted the deposit and said he didn't want the car. They considered it sold and untouchable once that deposit was placed.

Before you guys get all excited putting the factory up on a pedestal.....

I bought my '02 S4 brand new.
Nobody went inside the motor before I did.
I found a stray half-ring on the drainplug magnet when I did the 2nd oil change.

Interesting. Car sales may be very strictly governed in some states. Not sure the same restrictions apply to bikes, boats, etc. Where I sold expensive cars for 40 years, a valid deposit held the car based on the terms of the pro forma sales agreement. Technically they were non-refundable although we never exercized that except for special orders. By the same token, I could not refuse to sell a vehicle in my inventory if you were willing to pay the asking price UNLESS it had a valid deposit. If the deal were shaky though, pending credit, flaky buyer, etc., I'd have been happy to take a back-up deposit and the local law allowed that.

I'd have been OK showing you a sold vehicle. Given Murphy's Law, I'd have never let you drive it nor would we drive it either except for PDI and for fulling the tank. Even doing THAT, Murphy would occasionally strike!  8) Enough can "go south" without giving Murphy a shot!  ;)

Nothing wrong with spare parts :P

True that.

Would have been less distressing if they had presented it in a plastic bag at bike purchase, but you take what you can get.