Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: memper on October 09, 2014, 08:35:37 AM

Title: Custom Starter/Run/Kill assistance
Post by: memper on October 09, 2014, 08:35:37 AM
1999 m750

Starter: Brown wire and  Red/Blue wire.

Run/Kill: Brown wire and Red/Black wire.

Is brown ground? They go to coils and ignition units.

Red wires hot? They go to starter relay, fuses, and regulator.

Pretty sure I'm reading this right but it never hurts to check before accidentally frying something.  [bacon]

Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: DarkMonster620 on October 09, 2014, 10:17:10 AM
Most European use Brown as ground and according to what I can see in electrical diagram for your bike, brown to have the "earth" simbol
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 09, 2014, 12:08:37 PM
Got it. Thanks
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 13, 2014, 11:05:35 AM
Im at a dead end here. I've gone and got myself into yet another project on my bike. Decided to make some trick starter and run/kill buttons. Starter was no problem. Got a simple illuminated (angel eye) round, sealed, black stainless momentary. 12v/10a. I've got it mounted in the holes in the neck gussets on my frame. Great.

Been looking and looking for a match to run on the other gusset but I'll be darned if I can find a 30a(or greater) 12v latching push button switch that will fit in the frame hole (3/4").
I suppose I could run a toggle with the ratings I need and not mount it there but kills my plan. And toggles look silly IMO.

So I come here. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: ducpainter on October 13, 2014, 11:21:37 AM
Why do you need a 30a switch?

The kill switch only kills ignition.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 13, 2014, 11:49:26 AM
Bc according to my Haynes wiring diagram the engine stop switch has a 30a fuse. Starter has a 7.5a fuse.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: Speeddog on October 13, 2014, 11:57:32 AM
The run/stop switch supplies power to the ignition coils and ignitor boxes, and the starter switch.
That's all.

Either the Haynes manual is incorrect, or it's pilot error.
That circuit has a 7.5A fuse.

Run the same version of momentary switch, but wired opposite.
You'll have to hold the button down until the engine stops running.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 13, 2014, 12:26:34 PM
I have the latching version but its rated at 10a so I thought I couldnt use it. Heres a pic of my fuse legend:(http://i61.tinypic.com/29nfrjk.jpg)
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 13, 2014, 12:49:30 PM
According to this old thread we had discussed using a 15a switch for the run/kill and a 10a switch for the starter.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=63865.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=63865.0)

It would be sweet if I'm being a dumbass and the 10a latching switch I have for the shutoff could work.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: Speeddog on October 13, 2014, 03:37:53 PM
That wiring diagram is not applicable, as it shows a fuel pump as load on fuse 2.
1999 M750 did not have an electric fuel pump.

It would be prudent to get the proper wiring diagram for your bike.

Those switch capacities sound fine.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: ducpainter on October 13, 2014, 05:13:43 PM
I have the one from my 96 M900 if you're interested.

Not sure if it's exact, but it doesn't have a fuel pump on it. :P
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 13, 2014, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 13, 2014, 03:37:53 PM
That wiring diagram is not applicable, as it shows a fuel pump as load on fuse 2.
1999 M750 did not have an electric fuel pump.

It would be prudent to get the proper wiring diagram for your bike.

Those switch capacities sound fine.

Agreed. I will look around. Though now my bike does in fact have an electric pump.
Switch capacities sound fine... you mean 15a for the run and 10a for the start?
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 13, 2014, 09:03:26 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 13, 2014, 05:13:43 PM
I have the one from my 96 M900 if you're interested.

Not sure if it's exact, but it doesn't have a fuel pump on it. :P
Sure send it on over. Thanks!
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: Speeddog on October 13, 2014, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: memper on October 13, 2014, 09:02:41 PM
Agreed. I will look around. Though now my bike does in fact have an electric pump.
Switch capacities sound fine... you mean 15a for the run and 10a for the start?


Well, with an electric pump, then that should be taken into account, especially in regard to the switches and fuses.

Have you used a relay to switch the fuel pump?
What circuit is it on?
Do you know how much current it draws?
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: ducpainter on October 14, 2014, 03:20:46 AM
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8097/8588506343_752a27f812_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/e5WkHz)Monster wiring (https://flic.kr/p/e5WkHz) by nh_painter (https://www.flickr.com/people/26408631@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8379/8589606590_6426743903_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/e62YMm)Monster wiring key (https://flic.kr/p/e62YMm) by nh_painter (https://www.flickr.com/people/26408631@N02/), on Flickr

Click the images to go to flickr and expand so you can see them.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 14, 2014, 06:05:38 AM
Thanks for those DP.
Speed- the pump is a stock in-tank pump for my '96 ss tank. It turns on the same time I turn the key.
My fuse box is set up just like the diagram I had posted.
I tried to use the latching 10a switch on the run/kill but only the light turned on (its an illuminated switch) and the start button was silent when pressed. Fuel pump ran as usual when the key was turned.
My guess is that at 10a, the latching switch isnt letting enough current to pass by, allowing the starter button to engage properly. Would that be a correct, albeit, over simplified explanation?
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: ducpainter on October 14, 2014, 06:19:32 AM
Did your 10a kill switch stop the pump?
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 14, 2014, 06:44:57 AM
Nope. Should it?
Under stock switch conditions the pump runs until the key is turned off.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: ducpainter on October 14, 2014, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: memper on October 14, 2014, 06:44:57 AM
Nope. Should it?
Under stock switch conditions the pump runs until the key is turned off.
No...

but I don't think the load on the trigger wire for the solenoid is anywhere near 10a. I think you have a different issue.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: Howie on October 14, 2014, 02:59:54 PM
Pump should turn off with the kill switch, which is why bikes with an electric pump do not need a petcock or vacuum shut off for fuel.  The pump for a carburated bike draws much less amps than an FI pump.  Can you give us the schematic for your bike? 
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: ducpainter on October 14, 2014, 03:44:54 PM
There is no such thing as a diagram for this bike howie.

It's a 750 Monster with an SS fuel tank grafted on.

He's the only one who knows how it's wired.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: Howie on October 14, 2014, 04:12:36 PM
Yes, I meant his wiring diagram.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: ducpainter on October 14, 2014, 04:29:06 PM
Well...

he obviously has the pump wired to the ignition switch, and not the kill switch. :P
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 15, 2014, 04:11:54 AM
I think as a troubeshoot I will hook up the stock starter swich and see if that starts the bike.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 22, 2014, 10:06:47 AM
So I hooked up the stock kill switch and the new momentary and still no go.
The momentary from Plasmaglow has four wires. No directions except for wire explanation:

10A max current
Blue: +
Black: -
Yellow: Output
Red: Switch light

On the momentary switch I have the Black going to the harness Brown (-) and the Blue going to the harness Red/Blue (+)
On the box for the switch is says: "connect Red with Yellow for LED lit when pressed, or connect Red with 12v(+) for always on LED.
I have the Red and Yellow joined. Am I supposed to tie that in with the Blue (+) that goes to the harness Red/Blue (+) ?
Currently they are only joined to each other and the switch pos/neg are going to the harness pos/neg. Is this my problem area perhaps??

When I turn the key and hit the run switch, then press the starter, only the light on the switch turns on. All else is silent meaning no turning over, no clicking.

Also, I found the red owners manual with the wiring diagram. The fuses go: 30a main, 7.5a ignition, 15a headlight, 7.5a indicators, 7.5a stop, horn

So correct me if I am wrong, but the run/kill switch is a 7.5a line. In which case my two new 10a switches should be fine to use, no?

*EDIT* Just called the Plasmaglow company and indeed I am supposed to hook up all 3 wires to the harness (+): Red, Blue, and Yellow. Yeesh I'm a dunce.  [shot]
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 27, 2014, 12:24:19 PM
Wired up the three mentioned wires to the positive on the starter. Still nothing. But this is with the new run switch. I guess what I will do is hook up the stock run switch and see if the new wiring configuration on the starter has any effect. In the mean time I will order up a new metripack.
Title: Re: Starter/Run/Kill wire clarification
Post by: memper on October 28, 2014, 10:10:02 AM
Finally got the wires sorted out.
As a test I hooked up the stock run switch and the new momentary starter. The light on the momentary starter was very bright and the bike started. Yay!
So I then hook up the new latching run switch and when I tried starting the light on the starter was dim and flickering. While the engine was turning over, it would not catch and start up.

This leads me to believe that the new run switch is not adequate at 10A even though that line is said to be a 7.5A switch. Or its just human error. Thoughts?  [coffee]
Title: Re: Custom Starter/Run/Kill assistance
Post by: ducpainter on October 28, 2014, 03:03:55 PM
By the numbers the 10A switch should be adequate.

Bad connections, or a faulty switch could cause your problem.
Title: Re: Custom Starter/Run/Kill assistance
Post by: memper on October 28, 2014, 05:38:15 PM
Well a new metripack kit is on the way (destroyed the male half of the plastic housing bc the male pins didn't wanna budge). After that if still nothing then maybe the company will replace the switch.
Title: Re: Custom Starter/Run/Kill assistance
Post by: memper on October 29, 2014, 06:59:42 AM
To bench test the latching switch, use a meter set to continuity?
Title: Re: Custom Starter/Run/Kill assistance
Post by: ducpainter on October 29, 2014, 10:23:33 AM
That would work.

You shouldn't see much resistance.