Ducati Monster Forum

I've been riding Dynas for a few years and am considering making the move to a different kind of bike. I've owned three Harleys, so I've ridden enough to know no one can make the choice but me. That said, getting input from others can still be useful in helping to make more informed choices.

At the moment I'm considering either a Monster or a BMW R Nine T. I would like to test ride both -- which is the best way to buy a motorcycle -- but in this case it's not really practical. The R Nine T is impossible to get a test ride on as you have to pre-order it 6 months to a year in advance, and the local dealer has no Monsters for Demos. So...

I'm not a super aggressive rider, so I know I don't want something like a Panigale. I like to zip around the back roads here, but sometimes I also like to relax and enjoy the scenery a bit. My Dyna actually does both of those things, but the brakes are crappy and I'm really just ready to try something different.

I've looked at the Monster 821, Monster 1200, 1200S, and R Nine T in person. I have (briefly) had an opportunity to sit on all of these bikes, and each seemed pretty interesting in its own way. I'm 6'1" and 220lb, and I have been a little concerned the R Nine T might be too small for me as it's about the size of a Harley Sportster, and I'm a tad large for a Sportster. I do like the looks of that bike a lot, and I also like that it can be easily modified if necessary.

Of the Monsters I sat on, the 1200/S seemed to be the most comfortable. To be honest, here is where I'm a little out of my element as these bikes are so totally different than anything that I've ever ridden in the past that I sort of don't know how it ought to feel, other than in a very general way. The R Nine T felt okay too, but the seat felt very thin and narrow compared to what I'm used to on a Dyna. However, the seating position is so different maybe that's not an issue? Not sure.

The same questions I'm asking here I've asked of the R Nine T guys on a different site, and (predictably enough) they all said the Monster is an okay bike, but I'll probably be happier on the BMW. The reasons: A) Seating position is less aggressive and will be easier for me to adjust to. B) More forgiving brakes. C) The R Nine T has a lot of low end grunt and doesn't need to live in higher revs, making it vastly more manageable at low speeds, in the city, or for a rider new to this kind of bike. D) The BMW will be more reliable and less expensive over the long run. Bear in mind this is the feedback I received, not my own thoughts.

That last point is of particular concern to me. My Dyna, with stage one and V&H pipes, puts out a solid 80hp and tons of low end torque, so it never flounders and dies in the middle of a traffic light, and is totally forgiving in that respect. It will certainly move with a purpose if you hammer the throttle, but it's a manageable, predictable type of power that isn't going to pull your arms out of the sockets if you get a little more aggressive than you perhaps intended to. The BMW guys I talked to were of the opinion the Monster would be a much more difficult transition for me. They also seemed to feel the Monster would be good for tearing up the back roads, but not very enjoyable for those times when one wants to tone it down some and just enjoy a bit of more casual motorcycling.

Neither the Monster nor the R Nine T is a cruiser, and I get that. So now that I've heard from the BMW guys, I would like some feedback from the Ducati guys.

Any and all feedback is welcome. The thing is, these bikes are so different than the Dynas I'm used to that I'm not entirely sure what's important and what isn't.

We've got some folks with Harleys here, and at least one guy with an R9T.

They'd be the ones who could give you the benefit of FHE on comparing to Monsters.

I'd recommend making a road trip to a dealer that has both Monsters available for demo rides.

There are a few guys here that either own of have test ridden the Beemer-I'll let them chime in.  I haven't ridden the 2 Ducatis you're considering, but I have ridden my brother's Sportster 1200 with pipes/chip/air cleaner and I can tell you the Ducatis have WAY better brakes, feel much lighter and nimble, and have plenty of torque to get you going.  

On both of my Monsters I would be really itching to stretch my legs after about 1.5-2 hours, but I've heard from dozens of folks that a $300-$400 aftermarket seat will increase that distance quite a bit.  

I'm sure more folks will pipe in.  I also have found that Ducatis really are quite reliable (as long as you do a little maintenance along the way), and it really isn't very expensive unless you like to put tons of miles of your bike each year.

I have the Monster 1100 EVO which puts out 100hp, probably around 85hp at the wheel but is a lot lighter than your Harley, and I have ridden the MV Agusta Brutale 1090R (which puts out close to 160hp) and honestly, I never felt that the Brutale was unmanageable in any way.  Low speed fueling isn't the greatest on that bike but otherwise it is pretty easy to ride.

I haven't ridden the new Monster 1200 but I have ridden the Diavel (which some say the new Monster is more closely akin to than the older air-cooled Monsters).  The Diavel is an easy bike to ride with excellent brakes, tons of power and an excellent chassis but more of a cruiser riding position.  My 1100 EVO has a more aggressive riding position so you are leaning a but more forward than the newer Monsters.  I prefer that position but I haven't ridden the new Monsters either so I can't really comment on how they compare.  I have sat on one but that doesn't really give you much of a clue as to how it will ride.

I'm not sure what your concern is with the brakes on the Monster.  It comes with ABS which makes it pretty forgiving.  

Also, the Monster has tons of low end grunt.  It's a 1200cc L-Twin.

I think you need to ride them though before making a decision.  Find a dealer with demo models and take them for a ride.  Post back here with your impressions/concerns after.  We would all love to hear them.

I would probably never buy a bike without getting the chance to test ride it. There must be a dealer out there that will allow you the opportunity to test the Beemer.

I have a Monster and a Harley, never rode a BMW..  Like you, I really like the R nine T.  Make sure you know how they come std. and what accessories you would want to get it outfitted the way you like.  I was surprised how much extra the must-have bits cost on top of the bike.  TBH the Duc is probably the same kind of deal, haven't priced them in a while.  BMW has a great dealer support network.  I've heard that BMW will be ramping up production of the R9T so it might be easier to get one next year.  The Monster is a blast to ride, the handling, brakes and power are great.

My local BMW dealer does allow test rides as does my local Ducati dealer (coincidentally, they are both within 1 city block of each other).  Whether BMW has the bike you want in stock on the other hand might be an issue.

I have only ridden one BMW and it was an R1150R a friend of mine owned.  Heavy bike but it didn't feel under powered, just... heavy.

What to expect that is different?

1. Chicks dig Harleys.
2. Dudes dig talking about Ducati's.
3. Italians take a month a year off.
4. Carbon parts look way better than chrome.
5. Despite what you hear you will likely spend less time waiting for a tow truck.


Have fun, great bikes with a ton of soul  :)

I own both and can tell you that the Ducs you're considering are every bit manageable with respect to torque.  I've ridden Beemers but not the one you're considering.   My personal opinion is that the Duc will satisfy that torque need and be nearly as content riding a slower pace.   The S4's of old are not so friendly so stay in the 1100 or newer engines.   If I were you I'd keep the Dyna and add a stable mate.  Brembos are made to fit Harley's too ya know.  My Electra has them and stops on a dime.    [Dolph]

The 2v Monsters are in need of more "shifting" compared to a high torque HD. At least with the stock front sprocket (like I have in my 1100 EVO).
The new 4v Monsters are much better in that, on top of having a lot more power.
But in general Ducatis are more "nervous" WRT HDs.

Thanks for all the replies.


With regards to test riding the R Nine T, that just isn't possible. This particular bike is a limited production run which is currently only available by pre-ordering one from the production line. And according to BMW, as soon as the last of the engines are gone, that's it. 2015 is the last year for the R Nine T. Hence, the huge waiting list for these bikes. I consider myself fortunate I had the opportunity to see a sold one when it arrived. Demo rides just aren't possible.


I know the brakes on both of these bikes are going to be way better than my Dyna. If I understood correctly, the BMW guys were implying there is a learning curve to these brakes, not because they're weak, but because they're so strong. How different the brakes would be from the Monster to the R Nine T I don't know.

The guys at the local dealership seemed to be steering me toward the 1200 over the 821. Just wondering if you guys have any input on that.

Stop using your head and use your gut.
Motorcycles are visceral and make no sense.

Mentioned above, have you considered the Diavel?  The Diavel might be a better step for you than the monster.  More expensive I know, but better suited for what you are expecting out of your new bike, IMHO.  Brand new refresh too.

If you think the BMW is too small, I doubt you'll find any Monster feeling bigger.


I never understood this sentiment.  Motorcycles are smaller, easier to park, overall more economical, less expensive to operate, easier to work on and more fun.  Makes perfect sense to me.  </shrugs>

Were you thinking about parking and economics when you bought your S4R?

hmmmm? ;D

Parking was at the top of the list.  Red bikes are a tad easier to park.

How about hearing from a long time Harley, BMW, Guzzi guy who also has a Duc and a Buell?

First let me directly answer the questions or point you've been told:


A. Seating position on both the Monster and the 9T (I've stood the later up but not ridden it) are, for all intents and purposes the same (i.e. are both radically different from a Dyna). You are going to have to figure out if EITHER works for you long term. Best way to do that is a rental of something similar, spend a day or a weekend. Or at least try to get a demo ride (maybe on something used).

But for example, the seating position of my Harleys (mostly Sportys, but I've had Dynas and an RK around too) or some of my Guzzis (California, or V7) are basically the same. You sit upright, knees in front of you and about right in front of your hips, feet somewhere below the knees, maybe a tad forward or tad behind. This is VERY different from the seating position of a Monster, 9T, or a plethora of other Sport or Sport touring bikes (like my old BMW R1100RS) where your knees are below your hips, feet tucked somewhere behind your knees.

The later position tempts you to put weight on your wrists, can lock your knees into a position that cramps after 100 miles or so (used to be 200 miles or so, but I'm getting older I guess) and distributes your weight more towards your crotch than your butt. Also depending upon your upper body this position CAN put more strain on your neck.

Some people are fine with either position, some prefer one or the other. IF you're going to sell the Harley and ONLY have the Duc or BMW, then you should probably find out if the later is good for you. The only way to do that is spend a day or two riding something with that position.

As much as I've ridden in the later position (easily over 100k miles) I've found over the years that I really just prefer the former position (I've easily got double the miles in it). I put 100 miles on the Duc yesterday and as much as I do love it, my left leg was cramping up by halfway through that. Granted the 696 is smaller and even more aggressive a position than you're talking about, and I COULD do something about it with a better seat. But then again, the Buell with the Corbin does it to me too...as did my Guzzi Breva 1100 with what was probably one of the best motorcycle seats I've ever owned. The seat didn't change the legs being basically locked into that bent position.

B. The brakes on either the Duc or the BMW are not MORE FORGIVING. Hell, if they don't have ABS they are LESS forgiving. They are more powerful and have better feel and you will probably come to prefer them over what you feel on the Harley. That said, unless you're going to become a road racer the difference between the Duc or BMW probably doesn't matter in the least.

C. BAH, probably much ado about nothing. They're both twins. They're both twins that like to live at revs a couple thousand higher than what you are used to on a BT. So whereas you're used to putting around a 2-3k, the BMW might like to live at say 4k and the Duc closer to 5k... big deal. You would get used to either. Around town or at low speeds you simply slip the clutch when necessary. If the rpm range of the Duc is an issue it IS a chain drive bike so you would have the option of changing final drive ratio to gear it down if you wanted anyway. If you've owned a couple of Harleys (and hopefully that means you've ridden them 10's of thousands of miles not just OWNED them) then you're not a newbie and you'll learn either just fine. This isn't rocket science.

D. FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. Ducs have become more and more reliable over the years so that it seems to me they are damn near bulletproof if given reasonable maintenance. BMWs have become less and less reliable over the years (late-models having CANbus issues or exploding final drives). I know more than one FORMER fellow BMW owner who has moved on to other brands. And IF you rely on dealers for service it's not like BMW has the reputation for being cheap. I'll say this, our Duc (a relatively low mileage member of our fleet) has literally been FLAWLESS. I think the biggest thing you'll need to ask yourself is how you feel about cleaning/waxing/checking/adjusting a chain every 500-1k miles vs. an otherwise nearly maintenance free shaft drive (personally I hate chains but they're the price of admission for a Duc). AND if you plan on doing more than just oil changes yourself do you want to tackle the timing belts and valves of a Duc vs. the relatively easier valve adjustments of the BMW (at least the damn heads are sticking out there).


I'll say this. In all the years I owned BMWs I TRIED and TRIED to click with them. But I ALWAYS sold them because they were too vanilla, too sterile, too appliance-like. The longest I ever kept one was my R1100RSa because it was so damn useful (fairing, adjustable windshield, adjustable seat, adjustable grips, heated grips, ABS, etc.) and I STILL got rid of it by 40k miles.

The Ducati motor has SO much more character. The smile/mile factor. It sounds and feels wonderful as opposed to the relative balanced sewing machine of the opposed BMW twin. And don't get me wrong, I may buy another BMW one of these days, I do appreciate the efficiency of that twin. But compared to the Duc forget about it.

I will say this, not to bugger your plans or anything. I'll throw another wrench into the mix. Have you considered a Moto Guzzi Griso? The BMW 9T is basically a Griso wannabe anyway. But the Griso is a little more upright, has a proven final drive, and has that Italian character and Panache.

Well, that's all I've got for now... ask away if there's something more you want to know.

Kev

PS - can you keep the Harley? Trust me, it's nice to have both.

Than what?  A Ferrari?

My Camry Hybrid is way less expensive to operate than my Ducati.

+ 1

I didn't think it was hard going from Harley brakes to Ducati or BMW brakes. Just remember that now you will use 2 fingers instead of all 5 fingers.

Agreed.

Motorcycles are objects of the heart, not the head. If one was to be perfectly rational, then riding wouldn't be part of the game plan in the first place.

Go with what moves you.

+1 Brazilian.

EVERYTIME I've bought with my head over my heart that bike got sold a lot sooner and with fewer miles than one I've bought with my heart.

Kev, thanks for all the detailed information. That was very helpful.

I have no experience dealing with chains. How much of a pain is it to do the regular maintenance on that? Are a lot of special tools or stands required, or is it something that's pretty straightforward and easy to do?

As for keeping both bikes, I could probably do that if I wanted to. But to be honest, if I get a BMW or Ducati as a fun bike, then I would want to trade the Dyna for a Street Glide or something more suitable for longer rides.

I definitely want to get a test ride on the Monster if I can. Several people here have also mentioned the Diavel, and I did see one at the dealer and it's a very cool bike (in a Batman sort of way). I sat on it for a moment and I get that the riding position is a bit more familiar to me, which isn't an altogether bad thing. But the sheer power of that bike is a bit intimidating, especially coming from the cruiser world... Not that the Monster isn't also a seriously powerful bike.

It's NOT difficult at all. But you do have to keep on top of it.

Technically you're supposed to clean and oil (or wax, I like wax) it every 500 miles OR after every time you ride in the rain.

You don't NEED anything special, though a wheel stand or a wheel roller is handy. I've got a small portable wheel roller from Aerostich that I used for years:

http://www.aerostich.com/wheel-jockey.html (http://www.aerostich.com/wheel-jockey.html)

just under $60

(http://lghttp.26404.nexcesscdn.net/80B717/aerostich/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/450x450/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/6/2697_1b.jpg)

If you don't want one that is portable you can get something at Cycle Gear for half that price (and more than double that size).

I've finally got a bike lift with a drop out rear panel and a roller plate so I can do it there too which is even more convenient.

I think many people all but ignore their chains and leave them alone for thousands of miles at a time.

I guess it depends on conditions (how wet, how dusty/dirty etc.) how well you get away with that.

Personally though belts are set and forget, and shafts you just change the oil, and I like that.

But maybe that's because when you're maintaining 4-5 bikes it's just nice to have fewer tasks to worry about.

A CENTERSTAND would have been nice though  [laugh]


Ironically as someone who prefers the cruiser riding position a bit more I didn't really like the Diavel.

I road it back-to-back with the new Guzzi California 1400 at FBF when they first came out.

The Diavel is a wonder of a motor and I liked it MORE after riding it, but I don't love the looks and the riding position feels like an uber-scooter to me. I'm sure it's a fantastic bike and those who buy them seem to love them so I can't fault it there. But it just wasn't "me".

Which, in the end, is what you really need to figure out - what is "you" and that's all that matters.

But for ME, I figure if we're gonna own a Ducati, it might as well be a Monster which is closer to the style/performance and yes, riding position, that for which Ducati is known.

Though maybe if we owned a Diavel I would chose to ride the Duc more often than the Harley or Guzzi.

I've ridden it and it is an easy bike to ride.  Handling is excellent, brakes are excellent, chassis and engine are also excellent.  I'm pretty sure it has 4 power setting modes too so you can tame it to make less power if you feel overwhelmed by the thrust that engine generates.  I was amazed by it but never overwhelmed by it.  If you really crack that throttle though you will definitely feel how powerful it is.

For chain maintenance I have a Pit Bull rear stand.  Makes chain maintenance a breeze.  The only drawback is time and it is messy.

Edit-Looks like it has 3 power modes:

+1 to SD.

I've ridden a number of high hp bikes (like approaching 200 hp) and never once felt intimidated by them. Granted, I never really pushed them (I just don't have the skill or a suitable environment), but I ridden them more than around the block.

I think once you get over the first couple of years of riding developing basic clutch control, coordination for throttle/shifting, a sense of balance etc., then there probably aren't many bikes that would be intimidating anymore... at least approaching legal paces.

Looks like Kev saved me a shitload of typing.  ;D

I'm 6'1", and my old M900 was on the verge of being cramped. Otherwise, I had no problems adapting to it. I kind of wish I had kept mine, and if I ever win the lottery a new Monster 1200S is on the short list....

the main thing for me was getting used to the weight difference, it freaked me a little at first how lite a duc was in comparison but after u get past that they are a blast

Or you could find yourself one of these: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2006-harley-davidson-vrscr (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2006-harley-davidson-vrscr)

These days they're cheap. Closest to the best of both worlds you will find. Love mine, it's a keeper.

Never DID "get" the Hardley thing, so totally UN-qualified to comment. I AM surprised that no one has suggested looking at a 1200S vs the newest 2015 R1200R..., which, wait for it, even has a REAL fork!  ;D The old ones have a decent record I believe and you can hang OEM bags and tail case on it if the need arises. R-Nine-T has always impressed me as a marketing gimmick rather than a workhorse, and the specs are well below this new R1200R. Weights 40# more than a 1200S though which still has better specs but will cost a bit more to maintain I'd guess.

No idea when these will hit showrooms though. A good dealer should offer a ride as Ducati dealers do with a 1200S. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_r1200r%2015.htm (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_r1200r%2015.htm)

Meh. I just figure if he's aware of the 9T he's probably considered the rest of the line.

Warning physics nerd comment

I have ridden a number of Harleys and presently ride an 07 S4RS. Everyone else hare has described the differences so I don't need to reiterate. Just a comment on harley's low end torque which is always what you hear said about the venerable 45 degree v-twin.

What people are really experiencing is conservation of angular momentum, or flywheel inertia. Although it is true that Harleys typically reach  their torque peak at lower RPMs that really doesn't equate to "Plenty of low end torque" Plenty of torque results in acceleration, so plenty of torque more correctly describes the Ducati V=twin, which twists so hard it rotates the bike back over the rear wheel

You must be doing something wrong.

I'll accept your physics as you obviously know it better then do I.

However, one point of order, if you glance down the performance specs page of Motorcycle Consumer News you see the 30-something Ducatis tested over the past decade or so are rated at peak torque figures ranging from 37-86 ft lbs, with an average in the 50-60 ft lbs range and only the Diavel, Panigale, 1098S, and StreetFightet S even breaking into the 70+ range.

Now perform the same exercise for the Harleys the range is a slightly higher 42-86, with all but 3 bikes at 60+, and more then half at 70+.

And I wager those peaks are generally higher in the rpm range than with Harleys.

So I'm asking, aren't you ACTUALLY feeling that generally greater low rpm torque on the Harleys cause it's there?

Let's see, my Camry Hybrid averages about 38mpg, the Ducati around 35mpg.  I've done 6 oil changes on the Camry in 34,000 miles costing me a whopping total of $125.  I have 15,000 miles on the Ducati and I'm on my 3rd set of tires, 4th oil change, second valve adjustment and first belt change.

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and stand by my statement.  Feel free to try to pick it apart if you want... good luck with that.   [thumbsup]

I can't think of a better way to describe it.  Something about the weight of the Harley's front end - that torque pushes the bike forwards at low RPMs instead of lifting the front end (the dyno numbers don't count when you need to back off the throttle to keep from flipping an S4Rs)

I made the move in 1996 and never looked back.

Well that's reasonable. I mean both the dyno readings AND the 1/4 mile times tell us the differences and results of the motor (and chassis) differences in the end. But there is that PUSH, that locomotive feeling of a Harley, which is part of the fun. It's completely different than the feeling of a Duc, and that's great too.

I like variety.

I don't eat the same thing every day, and I don't want to ride the same thing every day either.

Would be nice but I can't afford a garage full of motorcycles so I only have one.

I guess I'd rather eat pizza every day than hamburgers.  [wine]

I love pizza - mmm, two of the ones we make on family pizza night would be:

Mushroom, caramelized onion, and bacon

and

Red pepper, garlic, and smoked Chorizo (sometimes with a Queso Blanco instead of Mozz).

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

But man, I also like my burgers too.

Often make them with a blend of meats including hot Italian sausage or a fresh chorizo.

You can add spices, cheeses and lots of other things to them.

As such, I don't want to give up my Pizza or Burgers...


...or HOT WINGS.... mmmmmmmmmm


Damnit - hungry now.

I need some beer after reading that  [drink]

+2 and . . . I'm hungry now . . .

Just to be clear, as far as Italy/USA compares. What you are describing here, has nothing to do with Italian pizza  ;D

I can almost hear your arteries hardening through my computer monitor.  ;D

Right, what I'm describing is better than what you'd get in Italy... at least that's what I remember from the last time I went.

Now if you want to talk about a nice traditional Risotto that's a different thing.




Meh, a little Simvastatin and a couple of 5k runs per week should help... 

With the Monster, be ready to turn at a thought. I came off luggin' Harleys around and went onto an M900. Nearly crashed on the first turn on the inside! [laugh]

You clearly have never eaten good pizza.
And no, good pizza is not the Lasagna Pizza, the Oreo Pizza, or the heart attack deep dish one  ;D
Good pizza is made with good flour, "dark as used Motul" extra virgin olive oil, fresh tomato and basil, and fresh mozzarella (buffalo one, or cow one).

I just came back from Rome a few months ago, and I used to live in Germany. So on this latest trip, I wanted to see how the pizza in Rome compares to what I was accustomed to in Germany.

In truth, it's very similar, but thinner. There are some small differences here and there, but there are differences from pizza shop to pizza shop, so that's to be expected. The good news is, the pizza in Rome is excellent. I lived for a year in Philadelphia and I wish I could lie and say the pizza there was just as good, but make no mistake, that would be a lie. Capricciosa is my favorite, I think.

We have a couple really good pizza places near where I live, but there nothing like the pizza over there. On the plus side, I learned to cook Bucatini Carbonara while I was there, and I can get it very, very close to what they make in Rome.

I really wish we had those Umbrella Pines here in the states. What a cool tree.

Saw a ton of bikes in Italy, though most of them were pretty boring. A lot of Ducatis, but perhaps not as many as you might think. A fair number of BMW's as well, and quite a few Harley sportsters of various models. And vast quantities of scooters of every description, including some that straddle the fence between motorcycle and scooter, and some that are just downright bizarre.

Different parts of Italy, have different styles.
In the Naples area, where "modern" (the one with mozzarella, just to be clear) pizza born, they do a thicker crust. Which I kind of prefer.
But really, the secret is all about the flavor of the base ingredients.
Myself, especially when I go in places where pizza really kicks arse, I get a simple Margherita. Also, if you speak with professional pizzaioli, for them Margherita is "the" pizza too.

Nah, you assume too much, I'm a second generation NY Italian who is also a foodie. I'm relatively well traveled to boot and have had the pleasure of touring the motherland with my grandfather when I was younger.

The best majority of pizza I chime across doesn't cut the mustard. But I've found some truly excellent examples in the US almost always from small first generation Italian family run places (the type that make most or all of their ingredients from scratch, not just their dough and sauce, but even sausages).

That doesn't keep me from making my own interpretation using some fresh dough with my family on a Friday night.

Variety is good!

Is this a Harley/RnineT/Duc thread or a pizza thread?

I've lived all over, including Asia and Europe, and I've spent a significant amount of time in various parts of the Middle East. Lots of different types of food. And I always say I don't give a damn about authentic. What is "authentic" anyway? I care about good.

Oftentimes, more authentic food is good, but sometimes bastardized types can be even better. When I lived in Germany, I lived very close to a guy who had immigrated from Italy and ran a gasthaus in the local village. He was generally pretty traditional, but would mix things up a bit here and there. Let me tell you, I would commit crimes to have his food here.

On the subject of motorcycles, I wouldn't ride in Rome if you paid me. Driving in Germany is great. But Italy is an entirely different matter.

Yes


DM - absolutely!

This could possibly become a locked thread.

OP - have you at least sat on each bike yet?  How did the bike sizes compare?



There are some folks here who are stuffed full of so much knowledge they long ago forgot how to shut the make the beast with two backs up.

I have sat on both. As for how they compare, that's hard to say as this is a very new seating position for me. The BMW felt smaller, lower to the ground, and the bars put your wrists at a slightly different angle. The Monster definitely felt "bigger," if that makes any sense. Not having ridden it, the seat on the Moster 1200 felt more comfortable. I have forward controls on my Fat Bob, so having my knees tucked up under me feels very strange, to say the least.

Some other things I noticed right off the bat are the thin grips on these bikes. I'm used to big, fat ISO-style grips, so I'm not sure how that will affect my hands. I understand there's a bit of a adjustment in learning to use your core to hold yourself up rather than putting all your weight on your hands when riding a bike with this seating position. Not sure how I will adjust to that over the long term, and even a demo ride is unlikely to answer that question completely. Another thing I noticed is the extreme light weight of these bikes. When I first grabbed the Ducati to sit on it I thought I was going to drop it just for a split second. I'm used to 770 lbs. of bike, and the Ducati almost felt like a toy when I grabbed it. I have to believe that translates into a BIG difference in feel on the road, as a Harley just feels like it's planted on the ground. In theory, a lighter weight should be a good thing, but I have no doubt that's going to take some getting used to.

Right off the bat I like the instruments on the BMW better. I've heard a lot of people complain the screen on the Ducati is almost useless in sunlight, and we have a lot of sunlight here in Texas! But in truth, I was a little surprised and disappointed by the instruments on both of these bikes. Incredibly, my old Breakout had a better display than either of these bikes, especially after I upgraded it with the one from the Harley catalog. That simple digital display showed everything these bikes do, plus it had a very nice fuel gauge and gear position indicator. Why in the holy hell anyone is still producing motorcycles in 2014 without a functioning fuel gauge is completely beyond me. The machine runs on fuel for gods sake!!! By what insane rationale would one NOT want to know how much fuel is left? Bizzare. And while a gear indicator isn't something you use often, there can be times where it's very handy. I was just shocked to learn that my bare-bones, old school Harley-Davidson was ahead of BMW or Ducati compared to these two modern bikes as far as instrumentation goes. I can't lie and say those things don't irritate me because they do. And since both of these bikes sport advanced digital readouts, it's completely bizarre that they show all kinds of completely irrelevant fluff and yet fail to display basic operator information to the rider. Would you buy a car that didn't have a fuel gauge? Would you fly in a plane where the pilot told you the plane wasn't equipped with a fuel gauge, but not to worry because he could get a pretty good estimate with a trip indicator? Wake up Ducati.

I like the look of the R Nine T, but not sure I'm crazy about spoked wheels with tube tires. I know they were going for a vintage look and all, but that was probably a poor choice and a lot of R Nine T owners are already changing those out. Needless to say, that's NOT cheap.

BTW, the local Ducati dealer said I could take any of the Monsters out for a test ride, but no way for the R Nine T. That's great, but I hate riding downtown in really big cities, and this particular dealer is located right off a five lane highway and there are hordes of morons here. I asked, and they said for demo rides they send people right out onto that highway because it's the only road they have access to. Hmmm. Not sure it's a wise policy to send people who have never ridden a sporty bike right out onto a busy downtown highway like that, but I guess it is what it is. On a side note, I found it interesting that a couple of the guys that work there don't ride on the street any longer as they were in bad accidents and now only ride on dirt. Not reading anything into that, but I thought it was interesting.

Cars are built for the lowest common denominator, bikes are not. Plus bikes didn't NEED a fuel gauge for most of their history because a petcock told you when you were low.

Riders were expected to just use the gray matter between their ears and the odometer to track their mileage and therefore always know how much fuel is left.

There's really no need to complicate things further by adding a gauge.

You seem to want to have it both ways, Kev. First you argue that motorcyclists are smart enough that adding extra complication by forcing the rider to do some math isn't a problem. Then you turn around argue a fuel gauge actually makes things more complicated.

Wat?

The way I see it it's pretty simple, folks. The machine runs on fuel. I want to know how much fuel is in it. Call me old fashioned. It is 2014, and at this point even my 100 dollar push lawnmower has a better fuel gauge than a Ducati. Seriously. The new Monster has a ridiculously large digital readout, and a simple fuel indicator up in the corner would be a hell of a lot more useful than some of the other crap on there.

Sure, I can live without it. But when a lawn mower or a stripped down Dyna has better instrumentation than a $15,000 modern bike, something is wrong.

Based on the prices of Harleys vs the Duc, or BMW...

I'd rather do a little math than have to carry an anchor to stop.

Wait...that's right...unless you modify the engine it barely goes...

no need for brakes then eh?

Seriously...if a fuel gauge is that important to you, you should buy a bike that has one.

Nope, one is user interface, other is cost and complexity of both manufacturing and repair.

You want a fuel gauge, get a bike that's dumbed down for the masses (and yes, that includes most/many Harleys).

Old fashioned would be to forgo the gauge like most bikes for the last 100+ years.

Have you ever owned a carbureted bike?

Awe hell, do you reset your tripmeter each fill up?

As for your lawn mower it's a horrible example as it doesn't have an odometer to track mileage.

The OP may not be aware that the Ducatis start counting the miles when they hit reserve, so you KNOW you've got 30 - 40 miles before you risk running dry. The last bike I had with an accurate gauge was my 1991 BMW K100RS 16/ABS. If they are leaving them off BMW's there days, it's probably not over the cost.  8) In general I know I have ~ 125 - 130 miles before I hit reserve and the countdown begins.

Maybe the OP is more concerned because the next town in TX is 400 miles?  ;D The more touring-oriened BMW's have a range of ~ 250 miles due to their larger tanks.

As for Harley's being "planted", planted like an aircraft carrier? I've observed they have "same day" steering. The newer Ducatis go where you "think" them, RIGHT NOW.  ;)

As for the fat grips, neither Ducatis nor most BMW's have major "vibes". Thin grips are probably a lot better for fine-tuning throttle inputs, because twisting that thing will also make things happen FAST. BHP per ton numbers might be interesting to compare...

Seems like comparing apples to kumquats...

Well, I can do pretty much anything on my Harley that I would chose to do on my Duc on the street, but the Harley IS more stable in crosswinds and turbulence.

As for gauges, maybe the op forgets how much fuel sloshes in a motorcycle. I dunno, I've had bikes with gauges, like my 96 EFI RK. But the gauge sucked and I used the trip meter and low fuel light more anyway.

I dunno, I've had eight EFI bikes I can think of since 96 and I THINK TWO had a fuel gauge, the rest meh, I didn't miss it.

Saying you prefer to rely on the trip meter is a perfectly reasonable position.

As for being dumbed down, every BMW I've run across has a fuel gauge. And most have gear indicators as well. I was a career military aviator, so I know a thing or two about calculating remaining fuel range. It's necessary in some situations, but I would still prefer to have a fuel indicator on the display, especially since the capability is obviously already there.


Fair enough. But I would really rather not have to do either, at least not all the time.


I mentioned Harley by way of comparison as that was, at least in part, what the thread was about. At no point did I ever bash either brand. I merely observed I would like a small addition to the existing interface, and I don't consider myself dumb for wanting that.


Wow. Just wow.


Thanks, Curmudgeon. I didn't know that, and that certainly helps. That's the kind of information I was looking for.


Exactly. Everything is FAR apart here. Texas is the size of Germany, and I've been out of gas before due to various reasons. Not going to happen again.


That's certainly true. ;D Which is (partially) why I'm here. I'm planning on a Monster test ride next week, and I'm very curious to see how a bike like this feels to me. Hopefully, I'll love it.


Okay, I didn't think about that. I'm used to having fat ISO grips to dampen the hand-killing vibes, but if that's not a problem, so much the better.

That's funny, I've owned a number of BMWs and most (if not all) haven't had a fuel gauge or gear indicator.

I simply don't remember about the RS, if it had either it was irrelevant.

Honestly I'm not trying to give you shyte so much as point out the reason for the convention.

It's just not necessary. Every single motorcycle I've owned or ridden for any length of time was unbelievably consistent in range. You get to learn it, and quickly.

And if the low fuel light goes off early you know how it effects your range.

I just don't have a need for a gauge.

I SUSPECT that if you ride enough without one, you won't either.

I'm not bashing a brand...Stock Harleys are not noted for their power. That's a fact.

You're the one whining about a fuel gauge not being included on a Ducati.

You should buy a UJM instead of a Duc or Beemer.

I hear most of them have fuel gauges.

PS, it's a bike, not a car (boring and easy) or plane (that kills you if it runs out), it's a throwback machine.

It's an impractical, romantic, less than ideal in most categories but fun machine.

A fuel gauge is, well, just not in the mission statement.

Thanks. I guess.

You come to a Ducati forum asking opinions about whether you should buy a Duc or a Beemer.

I thought the replies you got were well thought out, and fair. You have to realize we're going to be biased, just as the guys on the Beemer forum were.

You understand the purpose of your Harley, and you want a different ride. That's great. I didn't comment until you started saying your Harley was in some way 'superior' because it had a fuel gauge. That isn't what the Duc, or the Beemer in that configuration, is about.

They are not cruisers. It isn't about fuel mileage, or knowing how much fuel is in the tank.

It's about going...sometimes fast. Stopping...sometimes quickly. Turning on the thought of it. The Duc has that ability. The Duc is a great package for its intended purpose  I can't comment about the BMW.

My friend... We're hear for you. But since most of us have lived without a fuel gauge for our whole lives, you're probably pissing in the wind.

Seriously, don't get lost in the minutia, you're on an exciting quest. Enjoy it!

No matter what your final choice, have fun and ride safe!

To the OP, the gauges are hard to read in "some" bright light. Depends on the angle of the sun. You can always see the tach barograph. it's the numbers which can be hard to read, including speed.  ;D You'll see when you ride it. Bright sun behind you is clear as can be. Dull days, no issue. Maybe the 1200S is improved over my 796 as well.

For stuff like the reserve miles countdown, you can read in the manual which you can download from Ducati here: http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do (http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do)

[laugh] Now we're talking about fuel gauges?  Seriously? 

Man, I've never owned a motorcycle with a fuel gauge.  Would be kind of nice I guess... if they worked like car fuel gauges, but they don't.

This will be my fourth bike, and I've never owned one without. Don't remember on my first one, but the last two the fuel gauge was as dead on as the trip meter.

Tank slosh is only an issue if you're checking the gauge while running twisties. My helicopters had a tendency to move around just a tiny-weenie bit too, and the gauges on those are accurate down to the pound. It's not rocket science to make a gauge that works.

But Ducati doesn't so it is what it is.

You ever put any miles on those bikes?  And really?  You're going to compare a motorcycle to a helicopter?  [laugh]

One of my neighbors has a custom chopper with 2 extremely tiny fuel tanks, no gauges on that bike at all.  He has run out of fuel a few times.  I ran out of fuel once on my last bike, a Suzuki, after 199 miles and the fuel light had been on for a good 40 miles+.  I honestly thought I could make it to the next exit (I was on the freeway in the left lane at 6PM in San Diego traffic).  Traffic doesn't bother me and changing lanes on the freeway doesn't intimidate me either, but I have some serious experience commuting in San Diego traffic and I knew I was low on fuel and pushing the limits.  

Fuel lights work just as well as any fuel gauge.  If nothing else it gets you in the habit of resetting your trip meter every time you fuel up and knowing approximately when that light is going to come on.  I've gotten really good at that.  These days I start to question if my trip meter gets over 100 miles and the fuel light hasn't come on, it's called experience.  My bike holds 3.5 gallons of fuel (1100 EVOs hold very little fuel, one of my biggest gripes about my bike) and I can go about 90-100 miles max before the fuel light comes on at which point a trip odometer starts counting the miles you've ridden since the fuel light came on.  My Suzuki didn't have that.  On that bike the fuel light comes on and it stays lit until you refill the tank... even if you run out of gas.  There are no second warnings and no countdowns from when the light came on.  The bike I had before that had a petcock, no fuel light (also a Japanese bike). That will teach you to monitor your miles ridden since the last time you fill up.  [thumbsup]

I guess if that's important to you then get a bike with a fuel gauge.  And Ducati does make one at least that I know of, it is the Multistrada.  Personally, I couldn't care less if a bike has a fuel gauge or not.  Would it be nice?  Yeah, sure... I guess.  Is it a deal breaker?  HELL FREAKING NO!!!   [cheeky]

No, a fuel gauge is hardly a deal breaker and I never suggested anything of the sort. It's something I would have liked to have had, but since it's got a fuel light with a countdown meter, well, that's about half a fuel gauge anyway so that will work.

Question: If you had to choose between the 821 and the 1200, which would you choose and why?

Honestly, I couldn't make that decision until I had ridden both bikes.  I haven't ridden either of them but the suspension on the 1200 S will be a whole lot better than the suspension on the 821 so I'd probably go with the bike with the best suspension.

He's right, but he greater torque of the big bore might  sway you.

Neither. They're both ugly.

Re Fuel Gauges:  I spent a week touring on a 2012 Multistrada.  The countdown to out of fuel feature is really nice.  Of course it changed miles I would make it, almost as constantly as I changed throttle position.....

A light is a bonus.  Spent a lot of my time reaching down counting mileage and turning the petcock to reserve......

My former Hayabusa had a fuel gauge which was nice, but since switching to a Monster 1200S, I've gotten use to just resetting the trip counter with each tank of gas.  It's very easy to do on the monster.  So that, combined with the instant mpg reading & count down once the fuel light comes on works quite well for me.  As for a gear indicater, I thought of buying one, but have become familiar enough with my bike that I can just look at rpm vs speed and know what gear I'm in.  In fact, I'm starting to get to the point I can tell by feel.  I just love the traction control and ABS brakes though.  :-)

I've had both, I had a Bandit with one, it was 5 bars across the bottom of the little digital display.  Basically, when you saw it go from two to only one bar, hit reserve, look for station.

With my M750, no gauge, but basically if I'm at riding instead of commuting, I start looking for a station at 150 miles on the trip, fuel light usually comes on shortly after the 150 mark.  Commuting for a whole tank, I start looking for fuel around 125 miles.

JM

My old Kawasaki and Suzuki do not have either.  You turn the petcock to 'prime' to fill the float bowls and then to 'on' to ride it.  You're only warning is when the bike runs out of gas and then if you catch it in time you reach down and turn the petcock to 'reserve' and start looking for a gas station, hopefully within 30 miles.  It works - but I've made the mistake of forgetting to set it back to 'on' after refilling and then you're SOL when it runs out the next time.

Been there, done that. Sucks.  Thank goodness I was riding in familiar area and I knew if I pushed the bike to the top of the hill I was going up, I would be able to coast to a gas station that was a couple miles away.

JM

Well we certainly have the fuel gauge / lack thereof covered.
Obviously those posting here have had some amount of joy during their Ducati ownership.

One thing OP mentioned was riding position, and yes it's different, but if you're average sized
or particularly determined, you'll get used to the riding position after several hundred miles, it's
not that extreme. OP you were observant to note this. While it might feel less comfortable, there's
a lot of control available as has been mentioned. Comfort will come (your ass will give up first).
I haven't ridden (driven?) a Harley / Cruiser, but my the Monster
is so much easier to turn that my  first bike from years ago (KZ 440 LTD with the buckhorn bars).
The Monster is a much more involved experience - good luck.

so for a just shy of hijacking thread being derailed - a bit, what did you decide or are leaning towards?  If you can jump on a good used Multi Strada DO IT.  That's my next bike but the Electra Glide stays with me forever and ever.

YES, what will it be - Burger, Pizza, or Wurst?

[thumbsup]  I said after I first rode the Multistrada 1200 S that if I could have any 2 bikes on the planet that the Multistrada would be one of them.

I still haven't made a final decision on which bike to get yet. It's between the R Nine T, the Monster, and the GS Adventure. But on the subject of riding sport-oriented bikes, I found this helpful video which shows some important details.

Body positioning on a Sporstbike when cornering demonstrated by a Sexy HOTTIE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSz2edKnu78#)

Cute but dumb as a rock... she should probably go back to porn.  ;)

Did you ride a Multi yet? 

That video was very useful.  [evil]

Indeed. She helped with my posture a lot!  ;D
Though, she missed to talk about the ass position on the seat. Next episode?  [coffee]

As any good racer knows part of every lesson on riding well should include a lesson on getting off as well..........   


off to the ban myself thread.................

well played Sir.   [clap]

Rode the Monster 1200S today. Unfortunately, the dealership is downtown in the middle of a major city, and traffic in that area is frequently bumper to bumper throughout the day. And that's the way it was today, so it wasn't the most ideal conditions for testing a new bike. Still, I was able to ride around some of the streets down there for a little while, enough to at least make an initial impression.

The brakes are excellent. Nothing much I can add to that. I was able to stop with one finger and I didn't find the brakes to be grabby or over-sensitive in any way. This was the S model, so I'm not sure how that compares to the standard 1200 model.

Stiff clutch. The clutch was kind of stiff compared to what I'm used to, but I'm told that will likely loosen up a bit as everything breaks in. I was in stop and go traffic for about 30 minutes (barely moving, but not stopped), and it was really starting to kill my left hand. Riding in those conditions always sucks, so I won't hold that against the bike. However, I did tell the dealer I had a hard time finding neutral at the lights and so I just ended up holding the clutch the whole time, which was not fun in that traffic. And he told me that several people have complained of the exact same problem on many of the new Ducatis they have in stock and that it should go away after the bike gets a few miles on it.

The seat was fine. The seat was nice and wide and I was reasonably comfortable the whole time, so no problems there.

Balance is superb. I was perhaps a tiny bit unbalanced trying to hunt for those rear pegs every time I started rolling from a complete stop, but remember that's an entirely unfamiliar riding position for me. All things being equal, it was fine and I didn't have any problems riding the bike. If I had one comment here, it's that once you're actually on it and moving, the riding position on the Monster is perhaps a little more pitched forward and aggressive compared to how I thought it would feel just judging from pictures. It wasn't bad or anything, but I kind of did feel like I was looking down at the front tire. Another thing I noticed is that it is most definitely more work to keep your head lifted up and to turn and check traffic in adjacent lanes compared to the cruiser seating position, where everything is relaxed. I didn't dislike it, but there's no question it makes riding a Monster considerably more involved than riding my Dyna. Could I ride it more than an hour or two? That's a damn good question, and I wish I knew the answer. My guess is this bike would start to get pretty cramped and uncomfortable after about two hours. But that may be a wash because I start to feel beat up on my Dyna after two hours. The softail I used to ride was comfortable for longer periods.

The display is hard to read. I found I could barely see it half the time and ended up just ignoring it mostly. It's high tech and cool, especially for demoing it on the showroom floor. However, I didn't find it especially well designed for real world use.

The modes work. There is a tremendous difference between the various modes, and the Urban mode seems invaluable in stop and go traffic. However, I'm baffled by the way the display changed for Urban mode so that it essentially shows, well, nothing of any importance. Touring mode is much better in that respect. Overall, I thought the display detracted from the modes a bit. A gear indicator would have been a welcome addition, even if it was just for Urban mode.

Exhaust note was excellent. Honestly, I generally hate the way many non-Harley bikes sound. They may be powerful and well designed, but they sound like a sewing machine on steroids to me. And personally, I hate not being able to HEAR what gear I'm in. Well, I'm happy to report that's not a problem on the Monster 1200S. This particular example was equipped with a Termi exhaust, and it was loud and powerful. In fact, I would say it was actually a bit louder than my Dyna with V&H Big Radius pipes. THIS is what a sporty-type bike ought to sound like! Very cool.

Bike was very light. In fact, it turns so amazingly well that I was really trying to be careful because it was such an unfamiliar feeling. My Dyna is one of the most maneuverable, best handling bikes in the HD lineup, but it's a truck compared to this. Overall I found it pretty easy to ride, at least for the limited amount of riding I actually got to do.

So will I buy it? Hmmm, good question. My guess is that the R Nine T is a little easier to ride. However, I like some of the advanced options that the Monster offers, like traction control, riding modes, etc. The bike is big, powerful, and reasonably comfortable, but I disliked the instrument display. I just thought the display was fairly underwhelming for such an otherwise high tech bike. But motorcycles aren't about displays, they're about the riding experience.

So...I need to think about it a bit more. ;)

P.S. There is a ton of information and opinion online from guys making the transition from sport bike to cruiser, but hardly anything from the opposite perspective. Hopefully, these observations may be of some benefit to someone considering a Ducati who comes from another type of motorcycle.

Since there aren't many 1200S owners here quite yet, why don't you PM a few to get some feedback.

No BS, they take a few miles to break in and mostly should operate as slick as anything you'll find. Neutral gets pretty easy actually if you grab it just before you come to a stop.

Do you plan to ride in traffic A LOT?  ??? If not, once moving the wind will lift you out of that "cramped" position. It should also be easy to fit the Rizoma bar I'm using for more rise and a more comfortable sweep / wrist orientation. Looks better than stock too while not looking "aftermarket". I'm using MA008A, check out the dimensions. http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=562 (http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=562)

I sure hope not. I don't live in the city, but that's where I had to go for the test ride as that's where the dealership is.

I ride mostly on the country roads and try to avoid the major highways as they're just too busy, with too much construction. A lot of crazies here.

They had an 821 sitting there as well, but I only had time to ride one so I chose the 1200S. I'm wondering whether I should go back and ride it as well. I sat on it and it felt almost the same, but the sales guy said I would be switching gears a lot more with the 821.

 [thumbsup] Sounds about right.

I think you'll find that the BMW probably won't turn in as easily nor will the chassis be as good as the Ducati.  That has been my experience anyway.

The question is, are you going to buy it?

BTW-If you want a bike that is better equipped for long distance riding I'd suggest the Multistrada but that's a completely different riding position altogether.

I was checking out the new one they had sitting there, and I have to say I'm not in love with the looks. That said, looks aren't everything and it does seem like a very nice bike. I'm debating going back and riding that as well. I wonder how the power and response of the Multistrada compares to the Monster, not to mention the overall feel.

The dealer was probably right about the 821. It might do me fine but maybe not enough torque for your tastes. I don't mind shifting my 796 because the clutch is feather-light and the trans is slick.

If you ride mainly backroads, the 1200S should be dandy. Bear in mind that out-of-the-box, the suspension wasn't even set up for you riding solo, BTW. In the crate the preload in the rear is usually right for a youthful Italian and a lighter passenger.

Multi? It's like a BMW RT with more edge and a Ferrari engine.  ;D I'd need a ladder to get on one...  ;)

I just traded my Monster in for a 2014 Multistrada 1200 S yesterday.  The Multistrada is a heavier bike and you fill feel that weight moving the bike around under your own power but once you are under way that weight all but vanishes.  The Multistrada is very easy to ride at slow speeds (and at high speeds too).  I think it is easier than the Monster in fact, probably owing to the wide bars and upright riding position.  The power is similar but I would expect the Monster (1200 S) to feel faster because it is lighter.

That upright riding position gives you a commanding view of the road and if you're going to spend time on freeways I'd say get the Multistrada.  That wind protection sure is nice. 

Only reason I made this change right now is that Ducati has changed the Multistrada for 2015 and dealers are trying to move their existing stock of 2014 models.  I got mine for $3,100 under MSRP.  [thumbsup]

SDR - Say it ain't so!  :o

On the other hand. congratulations on the deal and many more miles ahead.  [Dolph]

Thanks man.  And it is so.  Would have been nice to keep the Monster but trading it and putting that money toward the new purchase made this whole deal more wife friendly.

Horrible garage pic.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2ewzcxl.jpg)

So what did they give you for the trade in?

$7500.  I thought it was fair enough.  My bike had just under 16,000 miles on it.  I've seen similar bikes sitting on craigslist for months at $8k but not as nice as mine.

Better pics.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/efkk0i.jpg)

(http://i58.tinypic.com/w63i1.jpg)

 [thumbsup]

You need to replace the horn with something which makes snorting sounds throught that nose.  8)

Is that the model with the electronic suspension? A 796 pal of mine commutes on one of those when the traffic is cooperative, but he also has an R1200RT with heat and a Bonneville. (NO wife of course... ;D)

;D If I buy any more motorcycles I might have no wife too.  ;)

Yes, it has the electronic suspension.  I think after she rides on it with me she'll change her mind about it.

I might ride it to work tomorrow.  I need to get the break-in done so I can open her up.  Dealer threw in the first service for free help to entice me into doing the deal.

Might want to change your sig line to avoid confusion..

Good call!  [thumbsup]

Thanks.

BTW-I wanted to like the new Monster but I would have had the same complaints about it as I did with my old bike... it just doesn't suit the kind of riding I do mostly.

Very sad to see it go but I'm looking forward to the journey ahead.

I still have a very soft spot in my heart for the Ducati Monster.  If I ever own more than one motorcycle at a time a Monster will be one of them.

Aww don't feel to badly for the loss.  Truth be told; had I test rode a Multi I may not have bought the Monster.  After having just spent 2500 miles on one the decision not to trade was purely economic.  I would have lost 7k in the deal, so I did not do it.

My average ride length is 250-300 miles so once in a while I regret it.  Usually though I just lump it out.  The grin I get while bearing it; Is huge. 

Have fun with her!

I guess I look at these things differently.  I had the use of a cool bike for 3+ years and almost 16,000 miles.  You're never going to get back what you pay for a bike when you buy it new.  Enjoy it while you can and get rid of it when you're ready.  The money they gave me on trade in went to the new bike so that helped quite a bit in reducing the initial cost.

Oh I never expect to get my cash back out of a toy.  At just two years of riding the Monster only for fun and occasional long three or four day ride, the newness has not yet worn off enough yet to take a big loss on it.   Not this year anyway  ;) 

Bumping this. To the OP, what (if anything) did you decide on? I'm in the same boat and am nearing the end of my decision-making process having likely settled on the new M821 or an older S4R. Curious as to what you pulled the trigger on. I'll go back to lurking now.

What ???

And

NO

Dynas are not actually very maneuverable. Maybe a bit better then a Softail, but not as nimble as a Sportster or, thanks to the reverse trees, the Touring line.

Otherwise great report.