So I mastered the old 8mm monster valve adjustment but as I'm moving to the newer 1100 EVO I'm noticing issues with application of the knowledge from the old bike to the new.
Biggest hurdles
1) I do closers by feel. In the past I would slide over both opener rocker arms on the respective 2V head and spin the cam pulley freely to measure drag. This is of course after removing the timing belts. This would allow me to do a perfect valve adjust.
On the new bike. I'm having trouble sliding both over the rocker arms over to do the same. Am I missing something? How is this accomplished on the newer monsters?. If I cant slide both opener rocker arms how to I effective measure drag on the new bike?
2) On the old bike, I could use an allen wrench to lock the closer down. It was either an 8mm or 10mm allen that would slide right into place. How do you do this on the newer monsters? Need some input on this
3) Is there any way to lock the cams in place while putting the belts back on? In my old S2R, there were screws that would go thru the timing belt housing that would fit into a notch in the pulley. This doesnt exist anymore on the new bike.
It seems like making this new bike servicable was an afterthought at Ducati. You'd think that going from an older bike to a new bike, you would see lessons learned and improvements. Its almost as if they went in a backwards direction.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
on the left side of engine, on the shaft cover, there should be a "plug" take it out, if not mistaken an M6x1 threaded tool goes in there . . . sadly, cannot show you a photo since work laptop decided on the 30th that is was OK to give me a bluescreen . . and we all know that a blue screen is a no good thing . . .
if you are in no hurry, and IT dept returns my laptop or gives me anew one with "spyware" back tomorrow or Monday, I'll give you the part number of said tool . . .
Thank you! I found a 2012 Factory service and saw the tool. We can scratch item #3 off the list. I get what you are saying. That should be pretty simple to manage so long as I have a long enough bolt. I referenced the tool part number in the manual. Worst case scenario, I may need to strip the threads off the end using a dremel to slip into the slot. Either way that is pretty easy to manage.
Item 1 and Item 2 still concern me greatly.
Quote from: EEL on January 02, 2015, 05:24:06 PM
Thank you! I found a 2012 Factory service and saw the tool. We can scratch item #3 off the list. I get what you are saying. That should be pretty simple to manage so long as I have a long enough bolt. I referenced the tool part number in the manual. Worst case scenario, I may need to strip the threads off the end using a dremel to slip into the slot. Either way that is pretty easy to manage.
Item 1 and Item 2 still concern me greatly.
Gotcha . . .
Use the manual's procedure . . . for 1 & 2 . . .do not take the belts off . . . and remember, to replace belts, loosen the screws on the belts gears AFTER you have locked the camshaft . . I already lived thru a camshaft turning and not noticing to which side [bang]
Quote from: The Last In Line on January 02, 2015, 05:33:01 PM
Gotcha . . .
Use the manual's procedure . . . for 1 & 2 . . .do not take the belts off . . . and remember, to replace belts, loosen the screws on the belts gears AFTER you have locked the camshaft . . I already lived thru a camshaft turning and not noticing to which side [bang]
Too late for that. the first thing I do is remove the belts. I've never in my life adjusted valves with belts on. Setting time is not an issue for me so I can just reset if necessary.
The manual says to stick a feeler gauge between the closer shim and the closer rocker arm. I'd love to see a mechanic actually do this in real life. Its practically impossible in the space provided. Maybe if the head was sitting on a bench somewhere. I could do the additive method of measuring closer + opener together and then subtracting opener but its still not as accurate of feeling drag on the cam. Really hoping someone can still provide insight on this method on newer monsters.
No mention in the manual about how to lock the rocker arm down to allow removal of the retaining rings.
1) You can pull out both opener shims, that'll help.
I don't think you can get both opener rockers off to the side on the 'DS' style heads.
The plain bearing heads have more drag than the ball bearing heads, be aware of that.
2) Dunno what tool would work for that.
I've got a tool I made for holding the closer down to get the half rings off, or to negate the closer spring to get a feeler gauge in between the closer shim and rocker.
3) I don't lock the cams for putting the belts on, I just use the spanner tool on the nut to hold the vertical if I can't get it to 'hang' in the right position.
If you do the 'pin ended bolt' on the other end of the cams, make double sure you've got those things out before turning the motor.
IMO, those are a beartrap that you set yourself up to step on.
Serviceability has been going backward pretty steadily since '03 model years or so.
At least they got rid of those diabolical head sideplates and cam end seals on the **9 Testa motors.
FINAL Summary
Ducati sells a cam locking tool for 28 bucks. Kindly give them the bird for the highway robbery and get one from CA-Cycleworks for 9 bucks.
As for the locking the closer down, I was unable to do this but EMS duc has a modified tool to hold the closer down. You could use a screwdriver but it gets in the way and there is a risk of slipping and hitting the valve seal below the closer.
http://emsduc.com/product/rocker-holder-tool-2v-7mm/ (http://emsduc.com/product/rocker-holder-tool-2v-7mm/)
It cost 28 bucks but it worked fairly well but it takes getting used to & should come in handy for adjustments in the future.
As for the closers. I was NOT able to rotate both opening cams off to the side. This is not possible on the new motors. Only one at a time. As a result, I couldn't do the drag adjustment as I did in the past. Instead I used the EMS tool to load the closer and measure the clearance directly below the closer (like the factory service manual suggests). I didnt measure the closer clearance at the opener like others have suggested on other posts. Too much error propagation.
New shims ordered from EMS for out of spec items. Hopefully I can put this learning experience behind me and the next time it will be easier.
You can shove a 8mm key from the opposite valve to lock the closing rocker arm in place once you depress it. just make sure you are at TDC so the valve drops and hits the top of the piston.
ive done this on the DS1000 and the new 1100EVO. works without an issue.
What sucks is the timing sights though, I wish they kept it the old way instead of with that plug.
it would look like this: The valve being adjusted is the one not shown.
(http://kuixihe.com/mygallery/Tutorials/Valve%20Adjustment/slides/Valve%20Adjustment%208.JPG)
Wow that would save me a lot of time. I've still got the valve covers open while I wait for shims to arrive. So you wedge it under the return spring?
I have to ask, how the hell did you figure that out
Confirming that this method works perfectly on the 1100 evo motor. As mentioded by He-Man, I'm willing to bet that it works for the 696 and 796 motors as well. Tested it on the vertical cylinder and the closing rocker arm stayed down. This is a huge efficiency booster because many times the closer shims and the retainers seem to bind onto the valve. When you're holding the closer rocker arm down with one hand, you're restricted to one hand to remove the closer shim and half rings.
The vertical cylinder is easier but the horizontal intake has poor access due to interference with the trellis and and the horn, and misc crap above. That and the valve's propensity to drop down make its really hard to remove the closing shims without having two hands. Highly recommended tip [thumbsup]
i remove the opening rockers to allow the cams to be rotated fully.
i use the piston to hold the valve up, works a treat.
you can use a hex key from the side you are adjusting to hold the closing rocker down, it's just a matter of hooking it in under the rocker when the valve is pushed down. i can't describe how to do it without actually doing it, but the hex key ends up being very close to the valve.