Ok, after replacing all the cables and dropping the engine out to sand back the mounting contact of paint I've reassembled everything and....... it turns out I'm a fringing idiot!!!!
It's the clutch basket causing the problem! it's rubbing against the housing!
(https://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s24/martyscott717/c0d9e7f566b7aa5e12356efccc256da2_zpse85a9199.jpg)
So, the next question and I may need to start a new thread. Should there be a spacer between the clutch basket and the part it attaches to? (Primary driven gear I think it's called!)
P.S. Cheers to everyone so far for input especially ducatigirl100 as it wasn't only the basket causing the problem bad earth was also a main contributor.
I've never seen a spacer between the basket and the primary gear.
There's a spacer behind the primary gear itself, perhaps that's incorrect or missing (tho if it were missing I'd think the engine would not turn).
What is the basket rubbing on?
The clucth basket is rubbing against the housing! I'm I missing a spacer? Or is there a problem with the primary driven gear? (It moves back and forth just slightly)
The damaged basket:
(https://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s24/martyscott717/c0d9e7f566b7aa5e12356efccc256da2_zpse85a9199.jpg)
The primary driven gear can be pull outward slightly with a bolt in place to pull on:
(https://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s24/martyscott717/dff05e0d70bcd873587ff3f5033e1c91_zpsddd86973.jpg)
Quote from: MonsterMadMarty on January 09, 2015, 10:10:53 PM
The clucth basket is rubbing against the housing! I'm I missing a spacer? Or is there a problem with the primary driven gear? (It moves back and forth just slightly)
The damaged basket:
~~~SNIP~~~
The primary driven gear can be pull outward slightly with a bolt in place to pull on:
~~~SNIP~~~
I suspect something's wrong there, yes.
That hub seems like it's not protruding enough.... but I'm working from memory, I don't have an early 900 that I can compare it to.
When it's as you have shown in the pic, you can pull out/push in the primary a bit, as you don't have the hub and nut holding it in place.
Exactly which one of your herd is this?
If you attach the basket to the primary gear, will it wobble around if you try to rock it?
It should be pretty solid, just a little play.
It's the '93 there is no wobble (side to side) it just pulls back and forwards a little I'll measure it later. I might pull the '95 clucth apart to compare unless someone has a definitive answer in the mean time ;)
That sounds good that there's no wobble.
Pulling back and forward a little (without the hub on and nut snug) isn't an issue, no benefit to measure it.
If there is back/forward play with the hub on and nut snug, then there's an issue deep inside.
Seems that since this engine has an issue, it'd be the one to pull the clutch cover off of, rather than the '95.
I was wondering how you were going with this....
This may help, But I'd guess you allready have it.
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q41/monsta904/engine_zps5bef2f6a.jpg)
Cheers Speeddog,
Once I pull the clucth cover what should I be looking for? Is there a spacer that maybe missing? I did replace the clucth cover as the orginal one had a really dirty sight glass that I couldn't get clean, it was simply easier to replace the whole cover with a spare one I had.
I merged the clutch stuff in here from the other thread.
You'll be looking for Item #21 on Monsta's image of the parts catalogue.
A spacer on the shaft, behind the primary gear.
Cheers again Speeddog [thumbsup]
Would you happen to know the part number and possibly the dimensions of the spacer?
I have an old '96 900 engine that I pulled apart and kept for spare parts, I was reasonable careful in keeping parts that went together together, bagging up and labelling. I've been through everything this morning but can't find a spacer only what looks more like a shim that's 0.4mm thick ID 25mm & OD 32.5mm. The ID is good for the shaft it's just the thickness doesn't seem enough! Aother random spacer that was bagged and with the gear shaft is 1mm thick but the ID is 32mm too big for the shaft!
21 066016145 SPACER 25.2X33.7X2.8 7.63 USD
Quote from: The Last In Line on January 10, 2015, 05:33:52 PM
21 066016145 SPACER 25.2X33.7X2.8 7.63 USD
Gold - thank you heaps [thumbsup]
you have no idea how long it took me to find and copy paste and write this
Quote from: MonsterMadMarty on January 10, 2015, 05:14:44 PM
Cheers again Speeddog [thumbsup]
Would you happen to know the part number and possibly the dimensions of the spacer?
I have an old '96 900 engine that I pulled apart and kept for spare parts, I was reasonable careful in keeping parts that went together together, bagging up and labelling. I've been through everything this morning but can't find a spacer only what looks more like a shim that's 0.4mm thick ID 25mm & OD 32.5mm. The ID is good for the shaft it's just the thickness doesn't seem enough! Aother random spacer that was bagged and with the gear shaft is 1mm thick but the ID is 32mm too big for the shaft!
That 25mm ID shim is likely for shimming the inside of transmission.
If the large ID shim has a chamfered ID, it's likely a main crank shim.
That shim of the dimensions that TLiL noted sounds the size of what I was thinking.
If you've still got the primary gear set from the motor you tore down, the spacer may be stuck to the engine-side bearing in the big primary gear.
Quote from: The Last In Line on January 10, 2015, 05:33:52 PM
21 066016145 SPACER 25.2X33.7X2.8 7.63 USD
Found it ;D. It was in a bag with the guide (part 31 on the diagram).
Now fingers crossed when I pull the clucth cover off tomorrow that the spacer is missing otherwise it's back to the drawing board!
P.S. Where can I find a parts catologe with all the diagrams for the M900 series?
pm sent
GREAT NEWS..... The spacer was missing! [bow_down]
So spacer fitted cover back on and I'm replacing the clucth itself with a DP Slipper clucth! The instruction state apply Loctite 510 to the eight bolts that hold the basket onto the primary drive gear and tighten to 35Nm. I only have Loctite 263 & 243 with the 263 being the high strength one. Can anyone tell me if the 263 will be ok? Cheers [thumbsup]
I wouldn't use the 263..
you'll have grief when you want to take em out again!
Quote from: monsta on January 11, 2015, 06:23:53 PM
I wouldn't use the 263..
you'll have grief when you want to take em out again!
Cheers, will the 243 (mid-strength) be ok?
I use 272 and never had problems.
dunno how difficult it would be to remove bolts with 243, but because of the higher temp rating, if you have trouble getting em out, heating them to remove will be 'that' much more harder.
Quote from: monsta on January 11, 2015, 06:42:23 PM
I use 272 and never had problems.
dunno how difficult it would be to remove bolts with 243, but because of the higher temp rating, if you have trouble getting em out, heating them to remove will be 'that' much more harder.
I use 243 a lot on pushbikes it's fine, as for removing again I hope I never have to! Ha ha.....
The other issue is Loctite 510 is a gasket sealant! Is it normal to apply gasket sealant to a bolt thread? If so, could I apply Threebond or Loctite 596?
Dunno why they specified 510 for the bolts, that's odd.
243 will be fine.
Quote from: Speeddog on January 11, 2015, 07:00:23 PM
Dunno why they specified 510 for the bolts, that's odd.
243 will be fine.
Cheers [thumbsup]
Yea, had me confused! The fitting instruction (Cod.ISTR-70UK Page 3/5) state Loctite 510, but then again there are some other errors in the labelling of parts!
There's oil on the other side of those (thru) holes, hence the 510 spec for it's sealing characteristics. I don't think it's an error. I sourced a tube when I did my last basket replacement on the 749s per the factory manual. That basket will be coming out very soon to make room for a new slipper! I'll bet med strength locker compound would essentially accomplish the same thing, as speeddog says. 510 can be hard to find.
BK
it's a sealant to stop oil coming through the threads, not a thread locker. but it does both jobs to some extent, as would a low strength thread locker. torque them to spec and they'll be fine.