After researching for the last week or so, I think I'd like to try and attempt (or have a shop attempt) HPDMonster's 'showa blues' mod using the shim stack from Ktech. It is time for me to change my fork oil for the upcoming riding season and I'd rather give the forks a meaningful upgrade while they are cracked open. I'm planning on 2 track days with my monster this year and it would be nice to have forks that are fully adjustable.
Reasons why I feel like showa blues mod is the way to go:
- I already have showa 50/54mm adjustable forks on my 01 900s
- Ohlins $1500+ fork replacement: too much money
- SBK swap: tempting, but I don't want to run clip-ons over my suburban machinery bars. Also, once you factor in prices and additional costs (for example my CNCracing headlight mounts are 54mm, SBK forks i'd need new headlight mounts) I am calculating time+money to be close to $800-$1000.
- Monster 1000s, s4, s4r fork swap: Still would need to be tinkered with for 'optimal setup'.
So... two questions for the DMF:
1) Can anyone in the US recommend a shop that has done a mod like this before, if i provided them with the ktech shim kit HPDMonster recommended?. Think a shop would do this for a little more than the standard price of a shim kit? ($500-$600). There is a good suspension shop close to me (michigan) that does a lot of sportbike fork work but i'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to touch a project like 'showa blues', with little instructions etc. I also did contact Eric at clubhousemotorsports, he was super helpful and extremely informative - after talking with him SBK forks seemed like the path to go, however i would rather just attempt showa blues which didn't seem like something he would do.
2) has anyone in the US on this forum done this mod?
Thanks for any comments/feedback.
PS - I'm planning on also respringing my stock Sachs rear fork to my weight (195 w/gear)
Eric did my Showa non adjustable forks, but he typically uses Race-tech parts, and has years of experience doing them that way. His suspension notebook is quite the piece of work. The difference with Eric is he builds his own stacks based on the type of riding and the road conditions the customer will typically see. You need to be honest about your weight in gear.
Once he was done with them there was no need for any adjustability.
I'd let him do his magic on your adjustable Showas. You won't believe the difference.
I can understand his reluctance to try an unknown, or any shops', when they have a tried and true method.
^ Please, if reasonably close to your budget, let an expert with relevant experience do it [thumbsup] Getting a solution that you know is spot on, from day one, is (almost) priceless.
Another plug for Eric at Clubhouse Motorsports. The before and after with the stock "adjustable" showas on my s2r1000 is amazing.
Thanks for the input everyone. I definitely understand the value of having someone experienced with monster setups do the suspension refresh/valving.
I guess my primary concern is that I'm performing modifications to an already 'suspect' design, but that is probably just my critical mind being too critica... I definitely don't want to perform a SBK swap so having my forks revalved/resprung with the existing layout is really the only other logical option (if showa blues is too much work for little gain). It's just too bad 'adjustable' shows aren't 100% adjustable.
Thanks for the advice [thumbsup]
Baz its not worth wasting your time and money on those forks as the rebound circuit is one way only and the needles are ineffective the forks are rubbish ... i chucked mine away and went for 996 sbk showas that were revalved and resprung ,,, almost as good now as ohlins .
What about those compared to te stock marzocci ones? I found some that are a direct replacement. More adjustable that the spring in a stick I have now. Can't get much worse.
The Showas have parts available.
As supplied they're not great.
I just realized my bike currently has the forks a good 12 mm higher in the top triple than where they are supposed to be (measuring from the fork top to the lower triple bottom)... PO must have lowered the front?...
Going to call Eric back tomorrow, try and find some used 748 forks, and then see if i can get those forks to fit with my current suburban machinery bars. It will be a tight fit but i think it will work... SBK forks really seem like the best long-term route. I figure I'll get the used forks looked over (and resprung?) before installation.
Well, I suppose I'm a little biased on this topic, and I'm not saying that my solution is the only solution, and there's no money in it for me.
However, if you do go the "Showa Blues" path, the 50/54 adjustables will functionally be the same as a set of SBK forks, no better, no worse.
The K-Tech compression and rebound pistons are a bit track-biased, but they still work great on public roads as well, compared to the stock set-up. If you contact K-tech they might sell you the rebound piston holders/needles/springs/nuts and you could use RaceTech Gold Valves on the compression, and the stock rebound pistons with shimming to suit your riding. As far as I know, there's no-one except K-Tech doing these rebound piston holders.
Someone may be able to get the stock set-up to work better without modifying them as per SB, but the basic design is still flawed and, in my humble view, not worth spending money and effort on.
I think you could talk to Cogent Dynamics (http://www.motocd.com/mc/ (http://www.motocd.com/mc/)); I think I read a comment from them on the 50/54's that coincides exactly with my view. They might be able to help you.
I've read a few threads about swapping internals with Showa forks for a Suzuki GSXR 600 / 750:
http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com/2014/07/gsxr-fork-cartridges-in-41mm-showa.html (http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com/2014/07/gsxr-fork-cartridges-in-41mm-showa.html)
I just finished doing the gsxr internal swap, using '00 GSXR 750 internals in a set of '00 900Sie forks.
The work is pretty straightforward, except that with the Monster forks, you'll need to move the GSXR shim stack onto the Monster holder (because the adjuster is in the retaining bolt and not the fork leg. The stock GSXR springs will fit in the Monster forks as well (43mm), and happened to be the right weight for me (.8).
I haven't had to test them though, as the bike is still apart.
The GSXR cartridge route is also very good; I've done it in 2 sets of Showa 43 mm forks with just shortening the cartridge rod, making a bottom spacer to locate the cartridge in the fork foot, and as Obaa mentioned, swapping the compression stack onto the Duc valve holder. Works great, and if you are a believer in bigger-diameter-cartridge-rods-is-better, the GSXR cartridge offers this as an extra bonus (12 mm vs. 10 mm).
This can be done on the Showa 41U's too ?
Yes.
I was going to go the GSXR internals route but found a super deal on some Superbike forks. Having them shipped to Eric at Clubhouse Motorsports. Will be shipping my forks and shock for a swap and service.
Quote from: jduke on March 30, 2015, 05:16:32 PM
I was going to go the GSXR internals route but found a super deal on some Superbike forks. Having them shipped to Eric at Clubhouse Motorsports. Will be shipping my forks and shock for a swap and service.
you will not be disappointed.
Quote from: jduke on March 30, 2015, 05:16:32 PM
I was going to go the GSXR internals route but found a super deal on some Superbike forks. Having them shipped to Eric at Clubhouse Motorsports. Will be shipping my forks and shock for a swap and service.
Nice! I'm still looking for my deal... [coffee]
If anyone is thinking of swapping Superbike internals with their stock Showa's, there's a set of damaged forks on Ebay that should be good for parts. Ebay # 121593471479
Just picked up a local set of 996 Showas with ti-nitride sliders from forum member eyduc. Next step - package them up and send them to Eric to be given a once-over and resprung for my weight.
FYI - for future reference, i have a 2001 monster 900s i.e. and the current forks that are on the bike (stock) are 717mm from center of axle bolt to the top of the fork tube. This is the EXACT same length as the SBK forks i just bought.
I won't need to move to clipons, like has been suggested from other members and their monsters. My stock bar risers and suburban machinery bars have more than enough space to clear the forks, so it won't be any different with the current setup (other than having to bore/shim my triple trees). Overall this is looking to be a very simple swap [Dolph]
current forks on 2001 900s and stock risers with suburban bars. The 996 forks are a direct drop-in height-wise (no change from axle bolt center and top of fork body) to the forks pictured.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll215/aerobaz11/IMG_8859_zpsckuffzv7.jpg)
And the new 996 forks, after cleaning them up with some scotch-brite. :). There was a fair amount of grime/sap? caked on one of the slider legs, and i probably will do another pass at cleaning, but they came out clean.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll215/aerobaz11/IMG_8866_zps3dvph5xi.jpg)
if you swap the outers and caps they'll go straight in.
Baz, what kind of fork lowers do you have?
Quote from: brad black on April 09, 2015, 02:26:10 AM
if you swap the outers and caps they'll go straight in.
I don't have any fork legs to measure, but the slide bush (the one on top of the inner leg) is 44.7 mm outer diameter / 1.5 mm wal thickness on all SBK forks later than 888 that I've done, an 43.7 mm / 1.0 mm on all of the 54/50 mm forks. Thow would indicate that the inner diameter of the forks is different, so possibly you'd have to swap the bushings as well. Or at least check how things fit together.
Quote from: jduke on April 09, 2015, 05:58:55 AM
Baz, what kind of fork lowers do you have?
The lowers are 65mm caliper spacing, non-ti nitride as they are a monster 900s fork. 25mm axle diameter
Are there any board sponsors that would machine the upper triple to 53mm for me? I'd prefer to ship it out and get it done through someone with some experience rather than take it to a local shop.
Quote from: baz on April 12, 2015, 07:24:48 PM
Are there any board sponsors that would machine the upper triple to 53mm for me? I'd prefer to ship it out and get it done through someone with some experience rather than take it to a local shop.
PM Monsterlover