Ducati Monster Forum

Alright, made some spare cash today selling scrap metal, so after monstermash confirmed that the 999showa shock fits on my 06 S2R1000 i just have a few questions before i buy that ebay shock.

a)I am 160lbs geared up, ducati states that the springs are suited for my weight (but i think we all know thats a lie) so would i benefit from an aftermarket spring? or is the spring fine and i can just slap the 999 shock directly onto my bike and just get it setup for me?

b) I only assume that the 999 stock showa is better than my Sachs shock, how much of an improvement am i going to see here? Ofcourse its not going to be a penske/matris/ohlins type deal, but i assume its still much better than the sachs.

c) I want to take this oppritunity to change the color of my shock, what would be the best way to do this? Would it be practical to strip and PC the spring? or shoudl i just buy another spring in the right color? (i want either black/blue/orange/red, ideally orange or red)

d) The shock i want to purchase on ebay is of an 02 999, they guy doenst know if the bike was tracked or not, but im thinking it should be serviced with new fluids and nitro, thoughts? Does anyone have a 999 shock they want to sell?

Thanks in advance.

PENSKE Shock: 749  (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=123%7CDucati%20Suspension&productID=5079&showDetail=1&categoryID=451|749%2F999%20Suspension&vendoridtodisplay=0&filterFor=&collection=168%7CEuropean%20Motorcycle%20Parts)

If you are talking about rebuilding the showa read this first

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=46688

And then save up for an ohlins or penske.

Call some REAL suspension people, before you listen to a guy who couldn't get the spring off......

No doubt the Ohlins or Penske is better.....and about 1K out of your pocket too.

wanna discount it 90% off.  :-*

Seriously though, i cant afford a penske right now. and 555spy, That thread isnt that informative, theres 1 guy who pointed out that rebuilding a showa is the worst idea ever, but i dont know why that would be true. A valve and fluid/gas change is ~300 bucks. majority of which i can do myself, all id need is a tank of nitrogen. And its a showa, they come stock on S4R, all the SBK ranges that are not S or R models and the Hypermotard. Plus my showa forks after they were rebult with racetechs are SWEET AS HELL and made riding 10x more fun.

So since most people have never done this mod, and Monstermashs 1098shock on his S2R1000 was "lightyears better than stock Sachs' then the 999 showa should be just as good.

But i still need to know, should i buy a new spring? or can i stick with the one i have? I assume the 999 is sprung for the same weight as all Ducatis are, aka 160lbs, which is perfect since that is my weight geared up. So is there a real benefit to getting an Ohlins Spring rated for 160lbs? I wil be stripping the paint of this spring, and PC'ing it, will the oven baking be fine for the spring?

Only way to really know if to install it, set the sag up, and go ride it.  The 999 rocker and the monster rocker appear to be identical, so it should be in the ballpark.

The 999 spring rate is different from those bikes that were monoposto to bi-posto

I assume they didnt mark the spring rate on the spring.  since i cannot find it on my current sachs.

Wont the external reservoir hit the sss?

I didn't know what the price of the shock you were looking at was, but figured it was a bit less than the penske/ohlins and that there was going to be an rebuild cost of a few hundred bucks, and if that was the case you might only be $200 short of the ohlins and that is a huge jump in performance for aonly a bit more scratch

I didn't mean by pointing you to another thread on the topic that it was "The" answer, it was just more info. 

I've gone through shock rebuilds on my offroad bikes and they can make quite a difference, but never as much as going up in quality of the whole component.

 Did I miss something? I had no idea they made a 999 in 2002.   ???

 He Man, can you post a link to the Ebay auction please?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Ducati-999-Rear-Showa-Shock-and-Linkage_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35592QQihZ012QQitemZ220170398535QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V the item has 12k miles on it with the 02 999.

I did some research, in 2002 999 was introduced to the US market, for sale in the end of 02. 999S and 999R came in 03 nad 04 and production continued until 2006. Though i can find no indication of an 02 999. :/ but i did find this pic.

(http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php/d/38545-6/0299909.jpg)

Quick question, is the 2004 S4R showa rear shock the same showa in the 04 999?

 I was just kidding. I KNOW Ducati didn't make a 999 in 02. At least not for the U.S. market. It may be different in Europe.

 The 999 was introduced in 2002 to the U.S. market as an 03 MY. Check any of the DP cataloges and you'll see no mention of any parts or accessories for an 02 999 because they didn't exist. They were still producing the 998 in 2002.

 If i were to guess, I would say that the shock is from an 02 998 and the listing is a typo, or just like amny of the ebay sellers, he may not know anything about Ducatis.  [roll]

Oh, It's just my opinion but that shock in the auction looks pretty beat up. If i were you I would wait for a better one to come along. For that price you won't have any trouble finding another one.

I emailed the guy and he says he has no info on the bike except it was taken of at 12K miles.

This being said, it is still a 5 year old shock. Mine looks as bad as that shock and its only 2 years old and 8K miles.

But if u think that shock isn't in good condition ill take ur word for it.

Ebay also has a 749 showa shock. 03 with 9k miles on it. (On my blackberry so I can t link u guys)

Its a bit more pricey and out of my range ( 180 shipped) I was thinking of a rebuild for the shock, but from the looks of it, I can do it myself if I just had something to refrence. So the cost would only be parts. (Race tech valves are 169 and o ring set+ fluid would be another 50.) So it would be about 350 before I can get the shock on the bike if I can find a shock for $120ish That's about 500 shy of a penske (if I'm lucky)

That's a lot more than in up for at the momment. But could I go with just droping the shock in and tuning it? If there is still a significant increase in performance at that point, I would just do that since my riding style just doesn't justify a new aftermarket suspension ( plus I'm paying for college myself at this point)

If i were you, I would wait and check ebay every day until a nice clean stock 999 Showa shows up. I would buy that and install it on my bike and not worry about the rebuild right now.
 Wait until the riding season is over and then remove it and install the new valves etc.

+1

I'm so far out of whack I NEED to get the shock done, else it won't be any improvement at all.  In your case, I'd bolt it on and ride it to see IF you might need to change anything.


On the breather subject, I've been cautioned by some pretty well known engine builders NOT to put a filter on it and call it a day.   The higher RPM's seen on my motor almost require a breather box.

I ordered a corsa reed valve, and I'll mount it in the airbox, gut the stock breather valve of the reeds, and fab up some sort of catch can for the vapor/oil.  If I set up the inlet/outlet like the factory does, it will let any excess oil drain back down into the crankcase, keeping it out of the airbox :)

Link? There is a built in reed valve in the beggining of the crank case breather tube supposely but why would you need one at the airbox? What i planned on doing was to cut the box out, Install a U and then a breather and hide it under my seat.
run the tool kit, so i have a few extra inches of space there to work with.

Why do you need a cramk case breather box if you run higher RPMS? i run my bike high up there as well.

The higher the RPM's, the more air is moving around in the crankcase.  In the case of the 4 valve, I spin it up to 11K.  Unless the 2V has had extensive work, running it past 8K is pretty futile.

The reed valve right on the breather is find, but removing it actually increases the volume of the crank case by however large the breather system is.  Also, the reed right on the crank case inhibits oil drainback.  By putting the reed valve in the airbox, not only are you giving a larger area for the crankcase gasses to expand to, but you are allowing oil a much more free path to drain back into the case.

You can simply vent the breather, but running a hose back into the airbox is better.  The reason being is that the airbox is under vacuum, and will draw out the crankcase gasses.  Without the vacuum, the breather tube/hose/ssytem has to be much larger to evac the excess gas than it would be if there is a vac on it.

Make sense?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OHLINS-rear-shock-DUCATI-999R-999S-999-2007-749R-749S_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ35615QQihZ014QQitemZ330251059752QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

Or $300ish short of an ohlins......

Youll be happier with any upgrade most likely.  and it'll all be showa if you do that swap, you go ohlins or penske and you might feel like getting forks too, then you're wallet will hate you for a long time.

555spy, its closer to $400 ;-) , and is that a OEM Ohlins unit or a factory ohlins unit? The difference in them is apprently large enough. Finnaly I DONT NEED AN OHLINS REAR SHOCK!!!! I already spent $600 on a fork rebuild with racetech valves spring and oil and its working out great for me so far.

I get all that except i still dont understand why putting a reed on the airbox would increase the voulme of the breather system. With a valve or not, the vaccum from the box will always suck gases from the crankcase. The way i understood, i can ditch the breather box and attatch a filter on it. On that tube, i will use a Y splitter and run the other tube into the airbox. I loose the voulme of the breather box, but in a 2v where 8500rpm is basically my rev limit, it shouldnt matter. Did i get this right? I still need a solution to the oil issue though. How much oil gets spit into the crankcase breather box? I;m talking about the maximum amount of oil i can expect to spit out ( i run my motor pretty damn hard on the streets)

According to racetech's website the 999 has a spring wt of 7.8kg/mm and the S4 has the exact same.  They put that spring as rated for a rider of about 210lbs.  Shameless Plug I have a 999 shock on ebay with less than 500 miles on it  If someone here wants it before bidding starts ill sell it for $125 Shipped in the lower 48.


http://motors.shop.ebay.com/merchant/jproct

Interesting that they recommend that spring for my weight, when just about everywhere else says it's to soft.

I wish I could find the rate on the S4R spring on 07 bikes (sachs shock). 


The reed on the box will allow the oil to more easily drain back into the case, instead of getting blocked by the reeds.....the only time the reeds are "open" is when the motor is forcing air from the case, which isn't going to let/help oil draining back in.

That is calculated for street riding, for racing it would be stiffer

Might be for some sedate street rider, but I can assure you the rear shock on my 999 was waaaaay to soft for the 999 out of the box.

Taftonomos, how much do you weigh?  I find the stock S2R shock to be decent for my weight. (135-160 depending on season and gear  [bacon] i weigh more during bacon season)

Somedude, i eyed your shock and am currently waiting on it to end so i can attack bid!!!. Because i was hangingout with another board member, i missed the opportunity on a 1098 shock that went for.....>$51.00 :(

However....i could take it of your hand early nice and easy...can i get some close up pics? how sure are you that it was off an 06 999. click my profile for my gmail address.   ;)

edit: Checked the Spring rate calculator from racetech for the Ducati 999 (S2R1000 is not listed, neither is the M1000ie) My weight calls for 6.88 kg/mm for street and  7.22 kg/mm for track. If he stock 999shock is 7.8kg/mm then i assume it should be ideal. but is the racetech shock calculator accurate? I run their specs for my front forks. It says .93 for track, i have .95 for my forks + valves.

Im going to look around for other rear shock calculators. What if i ran my shock a bit harder then stock? Or perhaps a better question is, what is the stock springrate on my S2R1000? The S4R is also 7.8, and if i put my weight for that bike it puts out 7.49kg/mm. What are some of the characteristics of a bike running a slightly stiffer shock than recommended?

Need vs want, it's a petty difference usually involving a large sum of $ or  [bacon]

I'm 6'5, around 240 right now, with prolly a good 10-15lbs I could loose.  Not much left to loose after that unless I want to look like a twig :)


For me, their calculator is/was dead wrong.  They say the shock on the 999 is the idea spring for street use for my weight.....

It's one of the first things I was told/recommended to change.

thats strange, the stock 999 shock is just a a hair over what is recommended for my weight, and you have almost 100 lbs on me. Something is screwy with that thing. Where can i find some accurate spring rate information?

www.kyleusa.com


Give Dan a call. He's the go-to guy for suspension.

The RaceTech shock spring calculator is FUBAR for  S4 and >'02 Monsters. [roll]

TAftonomos, you should have a spring about 11.5 kg/mm if your weight is with gear, 12.0 if weight is without gear.

Just gave him a call. and damn. that guy has some knowledge!

He said that stock ducati shock setups have too much preload. He gave an example of hte 848 which has 25mm of preload and a 170mm spring. Ideally, he wants to put on a 160mm spring to take of 10mm of preload.

The stock 999shock is ~8kg/mm and on an S2R it is ~10kg/mm. I need to find my preload length, ID of spring and length of spring and he will send me a spring that will fit.  =D But i going to see if penske has a shock that will fit the showa since i am looking to change the color of my shock too.

S2R have progressive springs....as do all other Monsters I've seen, other than S4Rs with Ohlins.

Are you guys sure that a 999 rear shock works for monsters with SSS?  It also seems as if the 1098 shock would work as well.

yup, it bolts on.  In my case just the breather box is/was in the way.  [thumbsup]

 Yes, and no.

 If you have a DS motor, you also have to move the coil for the vertical cylinder if you use the 999 shock. If you plan to try to use a 1098 shock be aware that you will have clearance issues with the reservoir and the swingarm on the SSS. You can use it IF you have the rear ride height cranked up.

I installed a Matris rear shock designed for a 999 and I had to remove the crankcase breather box and relocate the coil. Removing the breather box required making a new mount for the voltage regulator. Here is a link to the thread with pics.

 http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=6652.0

as Mash says, it's a bit different on the 2v's.  My ignition is direct fire, so no coil.  You'll need to do a bit more work, but nothing to hard. 

Still waiting to do this mod. My bike is ready to accept the shock. I have everything pretty much ready, aka the coil mount, breather eliminator (just need to get the filter). And then its a drop in shock.  I just keep spending my money on other stuff. Ripped my gloves. $90 to new gloves. need a new backpack...$150 to a new backpack. That was my Ohlins spring + showa shock money  :-[

Other than that, from what i asked around and read, the 999 shock fits the S2R1000 and S4R. the only issues you run into is the spring weight (aside from the breather box and coil). The 999 is lighter than the Monsters and the spring is still very liberal for its "ideal" weight. I still dont know if its sprung for a 175lb rider, or a 155lbs rider. Either way, a new spring is going in, powercoat bright orange, or deep blue.

So it will not work with a s2r800? 

I thought the 800 and 1000 were the same bike but with different engines (not counting the MC's , brakes, and forks). 

For the s4r, I though the frame was a little different to account for the massive radiator and how the engine mounts to the frame. Can someone verify this?  And if so, should'nt a 999 shock work with the 800.  If not, why not?

 Yes, the 999 shock will work on the S2R800. It's actually a little easier because you don't have to relocate the additional coil pack. You will still have to remove the crankcase breather box and relocate the voltage regulator though.

Thank you.  I just got my 999 shock in today.  I figured i had to remove the breather box and the regulator (since the regulator is bolted on the box).  Now i have to figure out how the adjustments on this baby.

It was not easier.  You have to relocate the coil, atleast that was the case on my s2r800.  the two tabs that stick out where the coil bolts onto will interfere with the travel of the rear shock.  If your looking from the rear of the bike (where you are able to see your cluster/gauges) the piggy back reservoir is off set in an angle to the left. 

It was a pregnant dog to fabricate as i had to scrounge around the house but I was able to pull it off.