putting the carbs back on my '00 M750. Took plenty of pics when I disassembled everything but I miss this fitting. I know the circled red is the where fuel line goes. The blue, I'm stumped on. Pods and canister are long gone. Thanks in advance.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/carbs2%20001.jpg)
the blue one is a vent. ideally it goes to a dead air space. like those nice little plastic things on the side of the frame.
Thanks BB, that's what I thought. Pods have been gone for years now. I'll route it under the battery then up.
Got the throttle cables on, but gotta ask, is there a trick to putting the pregnant dog one on, cause cussing didn't seem to help?
I understand. I got one back on (forget which one), with a great deal of face pulling and cussing. Routing it correctly was important and turning the throttle wheel around really helped iirc. Putting the cables on the carbs first and fitting them to the throttle last helped too. I don't take them off now unless they are stuffed.
I have had the breather nozzle turned back toward the space between the airbox and battery box on a number of bikes with no issue. I run the two canister hoses under there too and it works. Some I've run a short central breather hose into the cavity between airbox and battery box. With pod filters there is no lower airbox section to shield the area and turbulent air can get in there and cause issues. Having hoses hanging about unsheltered can cause the same.
I'm back on this job. Can anyone confirm that this is the correct hook up for an '00 M750 fuel pump.
Thanks again in advance.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/FUELPUMPLINES.gif)
That's correct.
Great! [beer] Maybe I can button this sucka up in a day or two.
Everything is back together. Fired it up (after remembering a couple minutes late to turn petcock on.) [bang] Runs warming up with choke on, but dies when I turn that off. Then one of the float bowl overflow lines spews a small puddle? When I had the shop rebuild the carbs they wrote "an addition adjustment might be needed after installation." on the back of invoice. Am I running into that or something else? As always appreciate the help.
Flooding does not come under the heading of "an addition adjustment might be needed after installation.". Idle and synch is all you should need to do.
Will it run if you hold the throttle open?
Sounds like a float is stuck, or has a small piece of debris on the float needle
it'll warm up without a hand on the throttle and responds ok to it with the choke on. Push it all the way off and it idles for a few seconds for a bit and dies. Puddle coming from the left carb float drain.
Will it run with the choke off if you hold the throttle?
Yup, put a bit of tension on it and it'll run.
Quote from: bdfinally on May 09, 2015, 12:54:45 PM
Yup, put a bit of tension on it and it'll run.
As howie said, a synch and idle adjustment should fix the stalling.
You said it was leaking from the float drain. Did you try tightening the drain screw?
Are you sure it's the drain and not the overflow?
it's coming from this drain line
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/bdfinally/carbs%20012a.jpg)
Try tightening the screw.
Already did [beer], needed to let everything cool down and figure out which contortion tool might fit. No puddling!
Would the shop have loosened that up during a rebuild?
Are we talking about an idle speed or idle mixture adjustment and how long a screwdriver do you recommend?
They might have.
Idle speed. It's easiest to remove the oil cooler and use a long one.
Make sure not to turn the synch screw. There are pics online as to which is which.
Did the shop set these carbs up on the bike, or did the have just the carbs?
Ive noticed carb flooding on a few sets of carbs after a rebuild until the float needles settle. I dont remember it being that way years ago.
The shop good with carbs and know these carbs?
Give a flooding float bowl a tap with the back of a screwdriver to seat things.
+1 on DPs question about the carbs being set up on the bike or not.
You mean like this ol' nugget?
(http://ducatisuite.com/carbadjust2.jpg)
(the green instructions still hold true?)
Yeah I took them off and left them at the shop. Did it in about 7 days. Shop has been around for more than a decade and had a sterling rep around here with the Ducatisti and vintage collectors.
How sensitive to turning is that idle speed screw. Since I'm probably on my own doing this, I might not be able to keep it running AND adjust at the same time.
That site is still gold. [thumbsup]
That means you have to do the set up with it running on the bike. What is the recommended idle mixture setting for the carb kit? Stock or DJ or Factory Pro kit? That can be your standard setting. It's often said 3 1/2 turns out is a good start (from lightly seated). I saw that the pic said 3 turns out, so why not try that.
You may have to hold the throttle at a high idle to warm it up, then set the idle speed with the screw in the pic. Once you've set the idle speed, then you may consider doing the carb synch if the shop hasn't done it "manually" with the carbs off.
Quote from: bdfinally on May 09, 2015, 05:07:19 PM
You mean like this ol' nugget?
(http://ducatisuite.com/carbadjust2.jpg)
(the green instructions still hold true?)
Yeah I took them off and left them at the shop. Did it in about 7 days. Shop has been around for more than a decade and had a sterling rep around here with the Ducatisti and vintage collectors.
How sensitive to turning is that idle speed screw. Since I'm probably on my own doing this, I might not be able to keep it running AND adjust at the same time.
Turn the speed screw in a 1/2 turn and see if it'll stay running. You don't want your idle too high or the bike won't settle back to an idle after revving because the ignition advance will kick in.
Try to keep it around 1100 rpm.
Those carbs should be synched too.
Enjoying this old school thread.
Something reassuring about the concrete technology of carbs.
Had a stage II kit put in it 6 months after buying it in 2001. Didn't ask if it was a Dynajet or Factory Pro. K&N filter w/o snorkels on lid. Sil Moto conicals.
I'll start with small steps on the adjustment tomorrow morning and see where that takes it.
Would be Dynojet then.
Let us know how you go.
Quote from: ducpainter on May 09, 2015, 05:20:07 PM
Turn the speed screw in a 1/2 turn and see if it'll stay running. You don't want your idle too high or the bike won't settle back to an idle after revving because the ignition advance will kick in.
Try to keep it around 1100 rpm.
Those carbs should be synched too.
Took 3/4 of a turn to keep it running and yup, doesn't want to settle back off throttle very well. It will, but takes a few to.
Quote from: bdfinally on May 11, 2015, 07:24:37 AM
Took 3/4 of a turn to keep it running and yup, doesn't want to settle back off throttle very well. It will, but takes a few to.
Out of synch can do that too.
It might be cheaper to take it in and have the shop do it rather than trying to get the tools together to do that.
That's what I'm thinking too. Shame, I was hoping to ride down to VIR this w/e for MotoAmerica, but not certain I'd trust it at this point.
Maybe I spoke too soon. Just got off the phone with the shop and got the feeling they were pushing a valve adjustment too. Said that could be the reason for it not settling off of throttle. Really?
Quote from: bdfinally on May 12, 2015, 07:46:04 AM
Maybe I spoke too soon. Just got off the phone with the shop and got the feeling they were pushing a valve adjustment too. Said that could be the reason for it not settling off of throttle. Really?
Not really IMO.
It's almost always synch/idle speed related.
Yup, I couldn't wrap my head around that idea. But then he couldn't figure out why I had wanted the carbs rebuilt initially if it was running "OK"
Quote from: bdfinally on May 12, 2015, 11:54:10 AM
Yup, I couldn't wrap my head around that idea. But then he couldn't figure out why I had wanted the carbs rebuilt initially if it was running "OK"
That's not an unreasonable question.
Why did you have them rebuilt?
They hadn't been cracked open in 14 years/32,000+ miles
Quote from: bdfinally on May 12, 2015, 12:19:14 PM
They hadn't been cracked open in 14 years/32,000+ miles
They needed needle jet tubes then.
You should see improved fuel mileage once you get it back on the road.
If it's been a lot of miles since a valve adjust, they always run smoother if the closers are set to the as close as possible to 0 spec, it might not be a bad idea to let them set the bike up.
That's what I figured, it was just time to freshen everything up and why I rebuilt the pump and replaced the fuel and vacuum lines at the same time. Everything worked "ok," but why wait for a problem to surface.
Bike only has maybe 2000 miles on it since I did the valves 2 years ago.
Quote from: bdfinally on May 12, 2015, 12:58:59 PM
That's what I figured, it was just time to freshen everything up and why I rebuilt the pump and replaced the fuel and vacuum lines at the same time. Everything worked "ok," but why wait for a problem to surface.
Bike only has maybe 2000 miles on it since I did the valves 2 years ago.
Just have them synch the carbs....
or buy one of these...
http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0411-Syncpro-Carburetor/dp/B000K7JHWA (http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0411-Syncpro-Carburetor/dp/B000K7JHWA)
and do it yourself.
I think I'm done with air/fuel for awhile. ;)
Steering bearings are next when hot & nasty sets in.
How could a shop possibly sync CV carbs while off the bike? A sync is dependent on vacuum, no?
Thats one way. Its the best way (manometer), letting you synch over a rev range. Doing it with the carbs off the bike gives you the off idle synch which on some bikes is the best you can do. I sometimes do it with carbs off the bike to get in the ball park and finish with the manometer on the bike.
and the saga continues! Took it back to the shop and they synched, adjusted mixture and speed. Ran fine the 2 days I rode to work. Just took it out on the highway and it's sputtering and gasping at speed. Any particular things I can look for to solve that?
You know I've been considering FCR39's for the last few years, if I'd known this was going to run over $500, I'd had probably just contacted Chris for a pair.
Problems at speed are typically fuel delivery which can be pump or venting.
It can also be an issue with the slides not lifting which can also be caused by a few things.
I had some intermittent problems with fuel starving/flooding/something on the 750. basically when I was giving it stick, especially over $1.20, for a while, it would stutter and die. if I caught it quick and rolled off I could drop to 60 and limp for a while, otherwise i'd be on the side of the road for 10min before starting up again.
no idea what it was, but i've got some FCR39's for the rebuild [Dolph]
Quote from: ducpainter on May 23, 2015, 08:26:07 AM
Problems at speed are typically fuel delivery which can be pump or venting.
It can also be an issue with the slides not lifting which can also be caused by a few things.
Well I rebuilt the pump (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70457.msg1301826#msg1301826 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70457.msg1301826#msg1301826)), but that was awfully straightforward, don't know where I could have gone wrong on that. Are you talking about the tank vent or off the carbs?
I was thinking tank vent.
Did you look at a plug by any chance?
Pulled both, look like the cup of coffee with creamer in I'm having. What's aggravating is they wrote on the back of work order that they test rode it.
Quote from: bdfinally on May 23, 2015, 03:28:51 PM
Pulled both, look like the cup of coffee with creamer in I'm having. What's aggravating is they wrote on the back of work order that they test rode it.
Well, it ran fine for you for two days, and they might not have taken it on a top end run.
Does the shop have a dyno?
Am I correct in that it didn't have these issues before the carbs were rebuilt?
Don't think they have a dyno. I'm going to blow that vent out in the morning and check that it isn't chinked somewhere.
Ran fine during the morning ride of the day I started pulling the carbs off.
Also check the little rubber nub that sits under the cap. They can get deformed and lock the vent hole in the cap.
I removed mine which makes the routing of the hose not critical.
Bd/ Nibor, have the emissions lines and pods been removed from the stock carbs ? Before I got flat slides I had the same occasional bogging down at high speed or hwy winds. 98 M900. If I slowed down to 60 mph it would stop bogging and eventually pull clean again until the next big wind or sustained higher speed run( over 70mph). Then it would start bogging again. My mechanic at the time, who is very experienced w these bikes, said that it happens at higher speeds on these bikes w OEM carbs when their emissions system is removed. I trice many things and never got rid of it on the old carbs. (Didn't have or want emissions stuff anymore) . Hwy trips were stressful but I succeed to the FCRs.
Quote from: bdfinally on May 23, 2015, 06:39:49 PM
Don't think they have a dyno. I'm going to blow that vent out in the morning and check that it isn't chinked somewhere.
Ran fine during the morning ride of the day I started pulling the carbs off.
Following up From my prev post...the air pressure differential gets messed up on stock carbs at higher speeds when the emissions system is removed, causing fuel starvation at high speed and high winds.
Quote from: Nibor on May 23, 2015, 08:35:50 AM
I had some intermittent problems with fuel starving/flooding/something on the 750. basically when I was giving it stick, especially over $1.20, for a while, it would stutter and die. if I caught it quick and rolled off I could drop to 60 and limp for a while, otherwise i'd be on the side of the road for 10min before starting up again.
no idea what it was, but i've got some FCR39's for the rebuild [Dolph]
Quote from: silas on May 24, 2015, 08:53:08 AM
Following up From my prev post...the air pressure differential gets messed up on stock carbs at higher speeds when the emissions system is removed, causing fuel starvation at high speed and high winds.
Good possibility. If this is the case, run the vent hoses down the back of the engine so they are in quiet air.
Yes, pods are gone. I've run those vent lines up under the battery tray and up behind it. Same as they were before this adventure began. I'll check to make sure they're not pinched or kinked under there. Blew the tank vent line out and the hole in the gas cap with compressed air. That rubber nipple has be gone for a couple of years. Opened up the air box and cranked it, slides seem to be moving fine. Just took it for another test ride and once I get up to 45+ in 4th. gear it'll start sputtering.
Too lazy to go through the four pages. How is the fuel pump/ The fuel line between the pump and carbs? The filter in the carb inlet?
Or if the vacuum tap is restricting flow at higher revs. They come up here a lot.
Quote from: howie on May 24, 2015, 02:57:00 PM
Too lazy to go through the four pages. How is the fuel pump/ The fuel line between the pump and carbs? The filter in the carb inlet?
I rebuilt the pump a month or so ago. Fuel lines are all new, except for one five-six inch section from my manual petcock that makes that crazy turn into the pump. Filter into carb don't know, I assumed the shop took a good look at that when they rebuilt the carbs.
Quote from: bdfinally on May 24, 2015, 05:46:10 PM
I rebuilt the pump a month or so ago. Fuel lines are all new, except for one five-six inch section from my manual petcock that makes that crazy turn into the pump. Filter into carb don't know, I assumed the shop took a good look at that when they rebuilt the carbs.
We all assume.
Still...it worked before it got make the beast with two backsed with and now it doesn't.
Just sayin'
Manual tap - Tick [thumbsup]
Wonder what the float level settings are now. Should be 14mm for those Mikunis.
You know, bypassing the pump with a full tank of gas will reveal a lot.
I hear ya, DP.
Looking at the parts diagram is that filter just pushed in loose.
Quote from: koko64 on May 24, 2015, 06:07:18 PM
Manual tap - Tick [thumbsup]
Wonder what the float level settings are now. Should be 14mm for those Mikunis.
You know, bypassing the pump with a full tank of gas will reveal a lot.
You think the pump is not pumping enough? I guess I could have screwed that up, but it looked awfully straight forward to me.
Worth double checking. You never know for sure until you double/triple check ;D
So just run a length of 5/16 from the manual petcock to the carbs?
Yep, give it a shot. You'll need a fullish tank without the pump. You never know, some E fuel may have eaten a pump membrane, but I'm just guessing. It's just to rule it out so you're sure what it isn't before you have to go back to the shop or pull the carbs again.
Be worth asking what they set the float levels at, don't tell 'em what it should be, just ask out of curiosity. I know I'm cynical :P.
Question...would the rubber hose on the air box not being thoroughly around the carb throat and tight be a cause of this high speed sputter?
Honestly not sure. Its possible. Could upset things with the CV system. Fix that and rule it out, then if it doesn't help do the bypass tests.
Put some new vent hoses on carbs and re-routing those back behind the vert cylinder. Looks like one of them might have been pinched under the air box/battery tray. Checked to see how nasty the little carb fuel filter might be...there isn't any in there. Problem?
They are often removed, but no issue if you have a good fuel filter. I reckon they're just another blockage opportunity.
Pinched hose could have easily stopped one carb slide rising. Test the bike now, good chance you've found it.
Looks like the latest problem was a pinched vent hose. New hoses, new routing and the springs cannibalized out of the original fuel lines seems to have solved the problem. Thanks Koko, DP, Howie and others for suggestions/guidance. [bow_down]