Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: lazylightnin717 on April 07, 2015, 06:41:45 PM

Title: Oil on valves
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 07, 2015, 06:41:45 PM
I'm in the process of tearing down the 02 S4 for the 24k service. 'Twas planning on valves, belts, and any flaking rockers to be taken care of.

I noticed with the TBs pulled to the side that it looked like there was oil on top of the valves. I will take a closer look tomorrow to confirm but in the meantime, I'd like some thoughts on why it may be occurring and how to fix it.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: EEL on April 07, 2015, 09:37:17 PM
Where is your breather connected?
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 03:04:38 AM
Valve seals
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 08, 2015, 04:07:55 AM
Quote from: EEL on April 07, 2015, 09:37:17 PM
Where is your breather connected?

Stock configuration.

Quote from: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 03:04:38 AM
Valve seals

Pretty obvious answer. Have you swapped them out on a desmoquattro?
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 04:26:53 AM
No, but I'd weigh all the circumstances before I jumped to any conclusions about them 'needing' to be replaced.

Did the bike have oil consumption issues last season?

How long did the bike sit to accumulate how much oil on the valves?

Are the seals the type that lock on to the guide, or are they the type that float on the valve stem?

Some oil on the valve stems is not necessarily a bad thing.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: Howie on April 08, 2015, 04:28:38 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 04:26:53 AM
No, but I'd weigh all the circumstances before I jumped to any conclusions about them 'needing' to be replaced.

Did the bike have oil consumption issues last season?

How long did the bike sit to accumulate how much oil on the valves?

Are the seals the type that lock on to the guide, or are they the type that float on the valve stem?

Some oil on the valve stems is not necessarily a bad thing. DING DING!


Also, are we looking at wet unburnt oil or black residue?  Intake or both?
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 08, 2015, 06:26:26 AM
Not sure about the type of seal. They looked locked into place with a small coill around the top.

The bike has been sitting for the winter. About 6 months.

It was last ridden hard for a few hundred miles in the mountains down in WV. I did notice really low oil level when I returned from the trip. I just attributed it to hard riding. The guys riding behind me confirmed no smoke.

I don't have the exhaust off to check those valves. The intake valves have both burnt and wet residue.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 06:42:34 AM
This is just me...

if the bike doesn't smoke, and isn't using more than a quart of oil in about 1k miles.

I'd leave it alone. It's a machine, and they use oil. Replacing valve seals might help, but if the guides are worn it's a temporary fix.

If you're the anal kind and absolutely have to find the reason the bike used a quart of oil after a season of riding...

get out the checkbook. It won't be cheap.

Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 08, 2015, 07:13:45 AM
Trying to keep the checkbook in my pocket  ;D
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: EEL on April 08, 2015, 12:40:43 PM
I'd say your breather valve is pushing oil vapors into your intake valves.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 01:57:41 PM
I believe the breather feeds into the air box on that monster, so he'd also see oil pooling there or dripping out of the air box drain.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: jduke on April 08, 2015, 02:00:25 PM
If the breather is pumping oil mist into the air box and then into the engine, you have an issue that needs to be fixed.
Could be rings, guides, valve stem seals.
If the breather is dry, and the valve stem seal doesn't appear to be torn or split, then it's probably the valve guide. You can use a dial indicator to check for play if you can't feel the looseness.
Almost any automotive cylinder head shop can replace the valve guides pretty inexpensively. If you can find an old VW mechanic he can easily handle it.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 02:15:36 PM
Get out your checkbook. The guys are spending your money. ;D
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: EEL on April 08, 2015, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on April 08, 2015, 01:57:41 PM
I believe the breather feeds into the air box on that monster, so he'd also see oil pooling there or dripping out of the air box drain.

Thats a very good point. I didn't think about that..

So that begs the question. Is there oil in the airbox??
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: Howie on April 08, 2015, 05:31:50 PM
Assuming the bike was running fine before,  no blue smoke, no plug fouling, no loss of power and no excessive oil consumption you might be trying to fix something that ain't broke.  If valve guide cleared and seals are OK and there is no excessive oil in the air box I say butt [n it up and see what you got.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 08, 2015, 06:46:25 PM
Didn't notice anything unusual inside the airbox. I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow.

I'm leaning more towards finishing the valves/belts and buttoning it back up.

If I find flaky closing rockers that warrant removing the heads, I'll probably take a closer look at the guides/seals. The seals look fine thus far.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: scaudill on April 09, 2015, 03:22:37 AM
Shouldn't there be some oil on the valves and cams? 

 
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: ducpainter on April 09, 2015, 03:31:23 AM
Quote from: scaudill on April 09, 2015, 03:22:37 AM
Shouldn't there be some oil on the valves and cams? 

 
Yes, but he's concerned about oil below the guides in the intake port.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: scaudill on April 09, 2015, 05:31:34 AM
Oh!
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: jduke on April 09, 2015, 05:53:19 AM
Quote from: lazylightnin717 on April 08, 2015, 06:46:25 PM

If I find flaky closing rockers that warrant removing the heads, I'll probably take a closer look at the guides/seals. The seals look fine thus far.

Shouldn't have to take the heads off to replace a closing rocker. Pull the cam cover, cam, and then pull the push pin and the rocker comes out. Now getting the closer spring back on may be a PIA, but it's doesn't require head removal.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 09, 2015, 06:12:31 AM
I'm well aware. Having to replace the vertical exhaust closers last time around was reason enough for me to say I'm yanking the heads if I have to do this again.

I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 10, 2015, 07:11:17 PM
Valves adjusted and only one flaky opener replaced. I visually inspected all of the valve seals and they looked fine.

I'm just going to button everything up and ride.
Title: Re: Oil on valves
Post by: ducpainter on April 11, 2015, 03:51:49 AM
Good call IMO