Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: samuraibiker on June 02, 2015, 06:07:49 AM

Title: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 02, 2015, 06:07:49 AM
hey guys

havent ridden my 97 monster 400 for a while... key in the ignition yesterday, started fine, idled nicely, revved fine...went for a ride.... wtf???? had someone stolen the motor and put in a honda cub one???? absolutely no power, no acceleration... limped home...both cylinders hot and firing, plugs good, battery fine.... any ideas? could it be a fuel starvation issue? fuel filter? fuel pump? any help much appreciated!
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 02, 2015, 06:10:07 AM
Could be lots of things.

What did you last do to the bike?

Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 02, 2015, 06:27:11 AM
hey duc

last thing i did was change the ignition pick up coils , new plugs ( ngk ), new battery, oil change.....


Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 02, 2015, 06:28:12 AM
You rode it after the pick-ups and it was OK?
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 02, 2015, 06:42:44 AM
was fine and dandy...then didnt ride for about a month ( or more )
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 02, 2015, 06:46:59 AM
have been searching around like mad for a day now...  fuel related issue? the filter was changed less than 2000 kms ago .... the fuel pump and all other fuel hoses etc are the originals from 1997...
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 02, 2015, 06:48:41 AM
I'd check to see if the tank vent line got kinked the last time you lifted the tank.
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 02, 2015, 07:16:16 AM
hey duc

thanks... i think i will check all those lines/ hoses etc... worth pulling off the fuel pump and cleaning it out?
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 02, 2015, 08:01:54 AM
Quote from: samuraibiker on June 02, 2015, 07:16:16 AM
hey duc

thanks... i think i will check all those lines/ hoses etc... worth pulling off the fuel pump and cleaning it out?
If the filter is working there shouldn't be anything in there.

I'd do one thing at a time.
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 03, 2015, 04:42:52 AM
ok.... check all hoses...no clogs, splits etc...

changed fuel filter

same problem... i noticed that from idling, when revs are increased slightly, the engine doesnt run smooth... timing issue?

when i changed the ignition pick up coils i didnt / couldnt set the gap between the coils and the alternator as they are fixed hole type... but could it be the ignition coils causing bad timing??
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: Howie on June 03, 2015, 04:48:37 AM
Could be timing or pick up gap.  Timing can be checked with an old fashioned timing light without taking anything apart.  Coils will not affect timing unless you have them mixed up.  since the bike idles well that should be correct.  Timing and gap are adjusted by loosening the pick ups and moving them on the bracket.
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 03, 2015, 04:53:28 AM
There is a spec on the pick-up air gap. It should be .6mm. There was just a thread about bad gap/timing.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70988.msg1311402#msg1311402 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70988.msg1311402#msg1311402)

Where did you get the replacement pickups?
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 03, 2015, 06:04:43 AM
hey howie/ ducp

firstly..big thanks for your comments... taking the time to help me out is really appreciated

the gap between the flywheel and the coils wasnt adjustable because my coils are the holes only ones.. no movement possible... and the position of the coils on the bracket also wasnt adjustable due to the simple single holes

bought them on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pickup-zundgeber-ducati-600-750-S-900-ss-monster-2v-ignition-coils-pick-up-new-/160690718980 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pickup-zundgeber-ducati-600-750-S-900-ss-monster-2v-ignition-coils-pick-up-new-/160690718980)

i didnt move the bracket at all, just replaced the coils thmselves


this is definitely a timing/ pick up coil issue........


Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 03, 2015, 06:55:03 AM
The gap can still be adjusted slightly by using the clearance between the bolts and the holes both on the pick-ups and the timing plate.

That doesn't seem to be your problem though as you said the bike was fine after you changed them. The gap shouldn't suddenly be an issue unless your plugs are fouling due to a weak or mis-timed spark.

Check the plugs?
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 03, 2015, 07:02:03 AM
hey ducp

the plugs were black as hell actually...had to give them a good clean.... and they are new plugs!

so...mis-timing spark?
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 03, 2015, 07:06:56 AM
Quote from: samuraibiker on June 03, 2015, 07:02:03 AM
hey ducp

the plugs were black as hell actually...had to give them a good clean.... and they are new plugs!

so...mis-timing spark?
Could be.

Since the ignition system was the last thing you messed with it would be worth your time to go back and verify everything is right. Check the ignition advance with a timing light before you take anything apart.

It could also be a carb problem, but I suggest you back track first before you start chasing your tail.
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: Chris888 on June 03, 2015, 07:18:24 AM
Monster 400 is carbs not injection?
Seems unlikely that both carbs would run rich.
Also seems odd that the thing starts at all if the timing is that badly out.

It might be worth checking the odd things that are common to both cylinders.
Air filter springs to mind?
Could it have got very dusty, wet, full of wildlife etc?
Also engine breather?

Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 03, 2015, 07:29:16 AM
hey duc

timing strobe ordered...


hey chris

yep...carbed! ( best imho ! )

bike is stored indoors but will definitely check air filter etc

thanks

mike
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: Chris888 on June 03, 2015, 07:58:24 AM
I've had issues with both my injected Duc's running a little rough after not being used enough.
I believe the injectors gum up a bit. The current one runs much smoother at low rpm when it's done 1000 miles in the last month than when it's only done 100 or less.
These new plugs.
I'd suspect they might be the problem? IMHO plugs are never the same again after bad fouling.
Did you use a different brand or type number before?
Maybe check timing etc before ruining another pair of plugs though!
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: koko64 on June 03, 2015, 08:15:36 AM
Fuel can congeal in the carbs causing flooding, richness and plug fouling.
Fuel can go off pretty bad now days.
You might still have an ignition pick up issue. A new set of pick ups may require adjustment if they are slightly different dimensions.
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducpainter on June 03, 2015, 09:31:10 AM
He's in Japan, so no idea what the fuel is like there.

Experience has taught me that if a bike was running and then you do some work on it and it doesn't run as well...

it is always best to retrace your steps on the previous repair before proceeding with messing something else up. ;D
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: koko64 on June 03, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Yep. Usually the last thing touched. ;)
We've all been there. ;D
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducatigirl100 on June 03, 2015, 06:39:07 PM
Quote from: koko64 on June 03, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Yep. Usually the last thing touched. ;)
We've all been there. ;D

[thumbsup] this

I've changed my pick up coils aboout a week ago....as it turned  the new ones that I've ordered where just a couple mm   different .. I dindin't pay attention and it run like crap .... my boyfriend  took a look and ... as it turn out the air gab was way off!!!!

It donsen't look like it but the place of the bracket for the pick up coils is  really  impotant  one mm off and the timmig gets messed up...

Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: samuraibiker on June 03, 2015, 07:42:07 PM
first up

big thanks to everyone for their help! I am by no way an expert mechanic  but I am willing to try most things myself.... owning a 1960s vespa requires it!

ducatigirl100..i really think this is the problem...the thing is my coils are old school type and i cant really see a way to adjust them without moving the bracket as well...so if that is the case then i need to adjust the bracket as well then ( duh! )

when i was fitting the new coils i used a feeler guage and I thought the air gap was a little large

anyway, have bought a timing strobe...
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: koko64 on June 03, 2015, 07:57:12 PM
Be careful not to slide the brackets, just loosen them enough to move them a little using the bolt hole slop to adjust the coil gaps. If you slide them the timing will be out, so only loosen them a little. Its worth marking where they are in case they get moved. Look for the notches againt the case for your location.

A car tuner buddy told me Japanese fuel is finer than Aussie fuel.  Japanese fuel evaporares in your hands, ours is very oily/waxy. The Formula 400 racers out of Japan often come with the smallest oem pilot jets but run rich with our fuel. I guess you might have less fuel issues there.

Good luck.
Title: Re: no power!?
Post by: ducatigirl100 on June 03, 2015, 08:04:34 PM

Lol

I've got exacly the same coils .. I've use 2 filler gauge at the same time .. adjust it to 0.6mm for each and place the brecket at excaly the same timming mark...

Now the bike is superb  .... more info ... [popcorn]
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70988.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=70988.0)