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Title: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on June 02, 2015, 11:48:19 PM I have plans to mount a Café Racer with a 826 engine ... But what is it 826, Ducati has never produced ???
In fact I'll put a crankshaft 900 in a 750 to reach 826 So I have this, a low engine 750 (http://img1.imagilive.com/1214/WP_20141207_002.jpg) (http://img1.imagilive.com/1214/WP_20141207_001.jpg) a 750 Paso gearbox with its clutch (http://img1.imagilive.com/1214/WP_20141218_003.jpg) (http://img1.imagilive.com/1214/WP_20141218_006.jpg) 900SS the crankshaft 91 while polite (http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/18/13/69/96/photo_14.jpg) a pair of cam shaft NCR7 (http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/18/13/69/96/20150311.jpg) a flywheel 600SS, 440gr against original 1880gr [evil] (http://s27.postimg.org/406e8dcqr/WP_20150520_001.jpg)(http://s27.postimg.org/5pfhgfsg3/WP_20150520_002.jpg) A pair of cylinder heads Paso (http://s9.postimg.org/ejec1c8xr/WP_20150522_012.jpg) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 02, 2015, 11:55:51 PM Cool. [thumbsup]
[popcorn] Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: MotoPsycho on June 03, 2015, 03:04:01 AM I'm really curious to see how this is going to pan out. The way I understood it, there is some serious compatibility issues with the "small block" motors and the 900's. I'm curious to see how it would go the other way. 750 crank in 900 case with 94mm pistons. I got 853 cc but way oversquare. Like 1.5 bore to stroke ratio.
Keep us posted pepe, this is gonna get good. [bacon] [bacon] Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: Slide Panda on June 03, 2015, 03:36:10 AM Stroker Ducati eh?
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducpainter on June 03, 2015, 03:45:52 AM I'm really curious to see how this is going to pan out. The way I understood it, there is some serious compatibility issues with the "small block" motors and the 900's. I'm curious to see how it would go the other way. 750 crank in 900 case with 94mm pistons. I got 853 cc but way oversquare. Like 1.5 bore to stroke ratio. Eric at clubhousemotorsports has an 853 motor just like that. It sounds more like a 748 than a 900 with the short stroke.Keep us posted pepe, this is gonna get good. [bacon] [bacon] Goes pretty good too. Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 03, 2015, 09:17:48 AM *bookmarked..
I have 3 paso 750 engines laying around in my garage... Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: Duck-Stew on June 03, 2015, 09:24:17 AM Send me a PM if you're interested in some modified F1 heads for that thing...
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on June 03, 2015, 01:56:15 PM I'm really curious to see how this is going to pan out. The way I understood it, there is some serious compatibility issues with the "small block" motors and the 900's. I'm curious to see how it would go the other way. 750 crank in 900 case with 94mm pistons. I got 853 cc but way oversquare. Like 1.5 bore to stroke ratio. Keep us posted pepe, this is gonna get good. [bacon] [bacon] In fact I do the closet background in the various workshops that I know 826 And then, I've never seen or heard that someone tried But I have a lot of work on the crankshaft and alternator housing Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 03, 2015, 04:49:59 PM In fact I do the closet background in the various workshops that I know 826 And then, I've never seen or heard that someone tried But I have a lot of work on the crankshaft and alternator housing http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore.html (http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore.html) Bore = 92 stroke = 61.5 (paso 750, pre 93 elefant 750, indiana) = 817.8 cc Bore = 92 Stroke = 64 (851,888) = 853cc Bore = 94 Stroke = 61.5 = 853cc 904cc 900 engine is 92mm stroke Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 03, 2015, 06:20:07 PM According to the calculator 68 stroke (900) & 88 bore (750) =827
The early Elefant Dakar bikes went from 750 up to 853 before they went to 904? That right Tiz? Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 03, 2015, 06:49:34 PM According to the calculator 68 stroke (900) & 88 bore (750) =827 The early Elefant Dakar bikes went from 750 up to 853 before they went to 904? That right Tiz? Yeah, the old style Elefants used the Pantah RHS clutch cases. First one was the plain old 750 paso style, then in 86 they bumped it to 853.. in 88, they moved to the 906 style case with 5spd and 904 and in 90 they used the 907 case with 944cc i was thinking the opposite, paso crank with 900 pistons..durr.. bore = 88 (750 pistons) stroke = 68 (904 engine) = 827.3 cc now i'm happy Title: Re: Post by: Raux on June 03, 2015, 07:00:10 PM Sooo ive always heard the cases are different for the smaller motors. Just bearings?
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 03, 2015, 07:11:57 PM Pepe, how you managing piston height/clearance to the combustion chamber roof and valves? Is there an issue with the longer stroke and short cylinders?
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 03, 2015, 07:33:04 PM Pepe, how you managing piston height/clearance to the combustion chamber roof and valves? Is there an issue with the longer stroke and short cylinders? They've got plenty of metal to relieve but I don't see the additional stroke requiring too much if he can machine that crank. i would lighten and "knife" it like the SPS models just to get rid of a lot of metal before worrying about the pistons.. Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on June 03, 2015, 09:01:33 PM Pepe, how you managing piston height/clearance to the combustion chamber roof and valves? Is there an issue with the longer stroke and short cylinders? I'll do a calculation to determine the height of a wedge that will replace the base gasket and have optimum squish. It will be laser cut or water jet in an aluminum plate and I could bump my cylinder at the right height. Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 03, 2015, 10:41:59 PM [thumbsup] Cool.
Looking forward to the fin build. Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: Nibor on June 04, 2015, 03:13:39 AM [thumbsup] Cool. Looking forward to the fin build. You and me both! [popcorn] Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 04, 2015, 03:27:02 AM Don't you get any ideas. Step away from the thread. ;D
Title: Re: Post by: Duck-Stew on June 04, 2015, 05:23:25 AM Sooo ive always heard the cases are different for the smaller motors. Just bearings? Crank to transmission input shaft is the same, but center to center between the transmission input & output shafts are smaller on the 'small case' engines than the 'large case' engines. More on that here: http://bikeboy.org/duccapacities.html (http://bikeboy.org/duccapacities.html) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: MotoPsycho on June 04, 2015, 10:21:03 AM Don't you get any ideas. Step away from the thread. ;D We need a like button. Title: Re: Post by: Raux on June 04, 2015, 03:16:26 PM Cr anks are different diameter too?
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 04, 2015, 05:12:53 PM Bike boy info seems to indicate that Pepe will need to be mixing and matching parts to suit, and customizing where necessary. Appears he has the means and ways to do it, and contacts to get all sorts of parts. I'll be watching this build with interest.
Title: Re: Post by: Raux on June 04, 2015, 05:35:31 PM I do love this idea.
Title: Re: Post by: Raux on June 05, 2015, 03:39:05 AM Although would love to see a 1198 with 749r crank put together. Almost 2:1 oversquare. More than 1199. Puts it at 1030cc iirc. Short ti rods lightweight piston. Knife crank. Ti valves. Would be a screamer.
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on June 05, 2015, 05:36:23 AM Bike boy info seems to indicate that Pepe will need to be mixing and matching parts to suit, and customizing where necessary. Appears he has the means and ways to do it, and contacts to get all sorts of parts. I'll be watching this build with interest. Indeed, the crankshaft must be touch on the masses and the alternator housing is to be machined and highly modified because the crankshaft 900 is longer 15mm alternator side than 750. The whole project is based on two machining Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 07, 2015, 04:57:53 PM How's it going? [popcorn]
Title: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on June 17, 2015, 10:33:18 AM The crankshaft machining is to create two chamfer on the masses to rotate freely in the housings
(http://s10.postimg.org/gp8jeso7t/wp_20110.jpg) (http://s10.postimg.org/mc4wc9qqh/wp_20111.jpg) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 17, 2015, 11:59:28 AM in the second pic, is the interference on the relative top or sides of the crank?
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on June 17, 2015, 12:19:53 PM the interference on the sides of the crank and the distribution shaft
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 18, 2015, 03:32:59 AM the interference on the sides of the crank and the distribution shaft Ah. so you will shorten the crank lobe? Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: Dirty Duc on June 18, 2015, 05:16:01 AM I would machine the layshaft...
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 18, 2015, 08:52:26 AM I would machine the layshaft... depends on how much you need to cut off.... you could probably deal with it by lightening and knife-edging the crank and shorting it just a bit. Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on June 18, 2015, 01:32:07 PM Ah. so you will shorten the crank lobe? I will not change the alternator housing ;) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 19, 2015, 08:34:50 AM [popcorn]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 21, 2015, 07:05:40 PM Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 23, 2015, 02:07:31 AM [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on June 23, 2015, 04:52:52 AM [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn] (http://rs5.pbsrc.com/albums/y173/chutie/popcorn.gif~c200) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on June 23, 2015, 10:57:20 AM ;D
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on August 03, 2015, 03:13:46 PM Cylinders and pistons for 826 and received the vilo should return next week for a first motor mounting see if everything fits well [evil]
(http://s30.postimg.org/f3cyp40vl/WP_20150721_003.jpg) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on October 02, 2015, 09:31:26 AM crank shaft
(http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/17/75/90/33/dscn1210.jpg) (http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/17/75/90/33/dscn1211.jpg) (http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/17/75/90/33/dscn1212.jpg) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on October 02, 2015, 10:53:02 AM depends on how much you need to cut off.... you could probably deal with it by lightening and knife-edging the crank and shorting it just a bit. [thumbsup] Very interested to see the power characteristics of this stroker Vs the more common shorter stroke bigger bore versions. There are some talented people around. Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on October 02, 2015, 01:18:15 PM 90 horses maybe .... [roll]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: MotoPsycho on October 02, 2015, 09:28:37 PM If it's along the lines of a typical stroker at least with old hot rod motors, it might only be 90 horse but the torque will be insane.
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on October 03, 2015, 12:33:26 AM That's it and that is what is sought [evil]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on October 04, 2015, 01:51:36 PM Looking forward to what the dyno has to say. Very cool. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: ducatiz on October 12, 2015, 06:46:08 PM If it's along the lines of a typical stroker at least with old hot rod motors, it might only be 90 horse but the torque will be insane. and that is why we love boomin' ducatis Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on October 13, 2015, 10:43:16 PM Temporary mounting to see if anything is missing in the puzzle.
I miss just a generator rotor and a generator side washer and no side clutch. (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/04/e80b8b34f0987c43678fd46d991e16a8.jpg) (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/04/135c8f3b72c0e640a608f83fd0d14190.jpg) Now I will assemble all the side in order to change the alternator alternator housing because the vilo 900 is longer than a few centimeters, then I'll take care of the yokes Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on December 24, 2015, 01:50:35 AM How's the bike Pepe? Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on December 24, 2015, 04:09:39 AM The crankshaft was too long, he made a passageway for machining ;D
(http://s7.postimg.org/mecrbv93v/image.jpg) To reduce its length (http://s27.postimg.org/d8hlvgkib/IMG_5194.jpg) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on December 24, 2015, 04:16:10 AM Et joyeux Noël à toi aussi koko64 [thumbsup]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on December 24, 2015, 05:04:38 AM Merci Pepe. [beer]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on February 12, 2016, 12:43:54 AM Ducati S2R 800 cylinder head with big valves 43/38 for 826
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160212/a07ee15fc307b74231e76badc3d08bbb.jpg) (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160212/a610350ab41ff1c6fd5e49ae33de7e7c.jpg) Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on February 12, 2016, 12:55:28 AM Very good for the motor recipe'. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on March 16, 2016, 12:20:10 AM How is this one Pepe?
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on April 05, 2016, 10:21:38 AM Any progress? [popcorn]
Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: pepeducat on April 05, 2016, 09:07:07 PM No.....
I lack time now to move forward on this project, but in the meantime I did that (http://s11.postimg.org/w7t1m65qr/WP_20160326_004.jpg) (http://s16.postimg.org/hdak092lx/WP_20160326_005.jpg) 900SS 1992 Complete Engine repair with pistons and camshaft Ferracci Ducati ST2 [evil] Title: Re: engine 826 Post by: koko64 on April 05, 2016, 09:11:39 PM [thumbsup]
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