I have a 2001 m750 with a beat up motor at this point. 40,000mi or so on the motor and has been neglected in the valve area. [bow_down] Well all that fun has caught up to me! One crankcase leak behind vertical cylinder. One stripped head for exhaust mount. Knocking valves from a botched belt change. Apparently the belt slipped a tooth and I ran it with a few high revs etc. Been downhill from there. Only way she fires is with some E3 plugs although after a few miles the horizontal fouls.
Found a deal on ebay exact motor replacement...cheap 12,+++mi Bought_Paid_Shipped_damaged in shipping!!! [bang] feeling like I just lost half my chips in poker...I made a poor mistake and pulled the trigger 2002 750 motor! Whilst not doing my homework!!! [wine]
So what can go wrong?
1. Motor Mounting Issues?
2. Carb Mounting
3. How do I convert the ignition system (wires are different and pick-up location) what phase systems?
4. Any other problems that I haven't thought of yet?
I'm trying to run a 2002 750 FI motor on my FCR39's and ExactFit coils.
Got to much invested in the carb and mods and to go full fuel injected would cost way more and waist my carbs! (I think?)
Worst case I was thinking I could use the heads, pistons and any other bits I may need down the rode.
Am I pissing in the wind? It sure feels that way [beer]
[bow_down] [bow_down] [bow_down]
You are kind of pissing up a rope...but you might be able to pull it off. ;D
The cases will bolt right in.
You should be able to use the manifolds from the carbed engine if the fuelie tubes are different.
The ignition is where you're going to have troubles/expense. You can try to change over the old ignition parts, bit I'm not sure if the cases are drilled for the ignition pickups, or if the crank is different and wont accept the old style flywheel which triggers the ignition. You'd have to look inside the left side cover.
An alternative is to buy an ignitek ignition and run it off the timing pick up that triggered the ecu on the fuelie motor.
A few guys here have run the Ignitech with carbs on EFI motors.
Why don't you sell the 750 motor and buy a 900 motor if you are going to the trouble of a conversion? That's a lot of trouble for the same power. Might as well sell it on and get the correct 750 motor. A 900 carb or 900ie motor + hi comp pistons with your FCR39s would be a cool combo. The 900ie motors have hot cams from oem. A 900 carbed motor would be quite straight forward in comparison. It's worth fitting the hi compression pistons and heavy duty engine studs on the 900 carbed motor, the power and torque increase makes for a very satisfying street engine.
That sounds like great advice Koko64!
It's not worth the trouble for the same power. I might just have to eat a bit of a loss but in the long run I do want more power...who doesn't?!
I'll need to look into Ignitech. The site is strange, hard to get clear info.
So If I get a 900i.e motor what other conversions would be needed (other than Ignitech)?
Would a 900ss motor be a good fit?
Do they compare to the 900i.e. hot cam or better?
Mounts the same?
Not a whole lot to choose from on ebay right now. Especially carbed. But it sounds like I may need to go with an EFI motor.
Thanks for the info Ducpainter,
I have read somewhere on here that the flywheel may be a different size(more or less teeth). Which likely puts other pieces to be subject to being changed.
I think Koko64 is right I need to upgrade! [beer]
Question is what will I find in the next few months?
yep me again,
How do I set up Ignitech with carbs on a EFI motor?
Plug and play? That would be to easy! [bacon]
The 900 carbed motor will be the easiest so if you can find one with low miles would be great, but not that easy. 900ie motors be they Monster or Supersport are the same and are three phase electrics like your 2001M750.
They will fit and need the Ignitech ordered to suit pm ducatiz to confirm as he has contact with them. Then you may be tempted to get a larger rear wheel.
Putting hi comp pistons in a carbed 900 requires new engine studs, especially older motors pre 98. This is essential trust me.
There may be some work linibg up front and rear sprocketss but not difficult and its been done before. The search mode us the tool you need. On injected bikes you will need to play with manifolds to fit your wonderful FCRs. I dont know if 900 manifolds bolt straight on but someone here will. A carbed 900 motor often comes with manifolds. All carbed 91-98 Supersport motors are good but non S model carbed Monster motors from mid 96-99 have tame cams and small valves. See bikeboy.org not all 900 motors born equal. That guy (Brad) saved me from buying a low output motor. Look for V stamped on the heads and not W.
Even a stock 900ie motor goes good but will be more trouble to fit. If you opt for hi comp pistons you will need the Ignitech snyway to change your ignition timung.
There are even modified 900 Monsters around ready to go.
There's only one carbed 900 motor I can find and it's not the best candidate.
Looks like I may be trying to work with the 2002 motor for now. I'll have it in hand monday or so.
I will certainly keep my eyes open for a sweet 900. I'm sure I'll be back very frequently with more questions.
I have a 5.5 rear rim already one of many mods. Always tinkering...
-1front
46t back
pod filters
CA Exactfit coils
Carbon GPR cans chopped to 9"
Barnett clutch plates
Oberon slave cylinder
Keihin 39 Carb kit
upgraded rectifier
Lots of custom paint
more cosmetic mods also
Yeah, I probably have way to much time and energy in her to walk away any time soon. [wine]
FTR...my 96 Monster is oil cooled and big valved. I think that change was in 97.
My approach will be to crack the left cover on both motors and see whats what first.
Just ordered some better tools for the work ahead.
HF torque wrench and some pretty basic shop tools is what I have. (Grinders/ cutters/ sockets etc.)
So I ordered a Micrometer, proper torque wrench, shim feeler gauges and alt cover puller. I know I will need more.
I'm willing to drill the case if needed for pickup wires but my fab skills and tools are next to zero.
After that, if I can't get more clear info on Ignitech TCIP4 I will pull heads and adjust the valves. Maybe research polishing heads and pistons? Figured if it's opened up, why not?
Just put in some fresh plugs (E3.36 with no adjustability at all, and a small gap) and she runs but I know it's temporary.
This is my third set of these plugs in the last few months. Last set lasted 60mi before fouling the horizontal cylinder.
I'll post when I get the motor and more info
Honestly, don't polish the heads or pistons unless you really know what you are doing. You can clean up the carbed inlet manifolds to remove the rough casting dags and sharp edges. Leave a nice satin, machined finish similar to cylinder bore cross hatching.
If your buddy is skilled, get him to port the heads and do a good valve job for you and you can dig a trench for him or something. ;) If you are like the member Nibor, you can buy high comp pistons for the 750 from FBF on a Monday at a good discount. Get a light flywheel from one of our sponsors and it will be a nifty little jigger! If your buddy can do it and you are short on cash, you can get the flywheel machined down to help response and acceleration. Just some suggestions. ;D
If I'm not mistaken, Ignitech can wire up a unit to run off the fuelie pick up that's plug and play if you request that. I pmed you the name of a forum member whom appears to have good contact with the factory and can chase that up for you. He can confirm if that's possible.
#"Dag" original old Aussie slang for shit stuck to the wool around a sheeps ass. ;D
I have the 2002 motor in hand. Been in contact with ignitech and they seem to think they have what I need. However there does seem to be a disconnect possibly due to a language barrier maybe... I pmed Ducatiz and he says the flywheel and pick-ups will need to be converted for ignitech to work. I hope it is that easy!!! Swap flywheel and pick-ups, plug in the Ignitech TCIP4 and...BOOM? Or Brap!
If you have to change the flywheel, may as well put in a light one [evil].
Oooooh this forum is like the motorcycle buddy I never had! [thumbsup]
Shit but aren't those things like 300+change? :o
How much pep will it and to my step? Is it worth the $
Same question for HighComp pistons... I know its a 750 dog but will pistons and alum flywheel be worth it?
Believe me, I'm game for making this Duc purr if someone can twist my arm juuussstt a bit. (trust me... it won't take much)
Read this... http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=71155.msg1314389#msg1314389 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=71155.msg1314389#msg1314389)
Ok, so the 750 just isn't worth upgrading. Is that what your getting at ducpainter?
I'll just have to keep my eyes open for a proper 900 motor.
Than pistons and flywheel? lol
Quote from: terse750 on June 15, 2015, 06:14:58 PM
Ok, so the 750 just isn't worth upgrading. Is that what your getting at ducpainter?
I'll just have to keep my eyes open for a proper 900 motor.
Than pistons and flywheel? lol
For the same, or less, money the stock 900 upgrade will give you roughly the same hp and gobs more torque over building a 750.
You choose.
Well thats pretty cut and dry.
I accept that.
It appears as though the flywheel upgrade is interchangeable.
So I could add that to the list for the bike.
If I had a line on a clean 900 motor I'd be all over it.
I'll be happy to be rolling again soon upgrades or not!
Thanks for talking some since into me ducpainter...lol [thumbsup]
I'll have to change my forum name to terse900 when that day comes [wine]
Honestly, sell on the 750 motor and look for a carbed 900 motor. It will be a good performance upgrade and easier to do. Easier to do will be cheaper without annoying conversion work. Take your time to find a 900 motor you can work on out of the frame if you want to do mods.
Here's a reasonable priced recipe': Hi comp pistons, heavy duty engine studs (if needed), light flywheel, open airbox with K&N filter and Ignitech. The beauty of this is that you have already done some of these mods, you have FCRs, coils, etc. The most expensive part is the FCRs and you got them [thumbsup]. Very satisfying street performance.
Make haste slowly for a better outcome.
I totally hear you loud and clear koko. Although I need a bike to ride in the meantime and Ignitech just sent me an email.
When I asked about swapping the flywheel and pick-ups, this was their response
"No, you have to use original pick-up on 2002 engine. In attachment is photo of connector adapter. There you can see two connections fits to Kokusan connection and also connection for original 2002 engine pick-up." also have a picture of the connector adapted...
Appearently it is plug and play.
To sell the motor it may take months or more. Not many people seem to scoop these dog 750's up for good reason.
I'd like to consider the 2002 motor as a place holder for a soon to be found 900.
Plus maybe I can part out my current junker 750 for parts to recoup some lost $
Looks like I'm going to spend the 200+ price tag for the ignitech and adapters after a bit more research.
Like I said I need a moto to ride!!! Like NOW!
By purchasing the ignitech you also open the possibility of upgrading to a 1000 motor.
Are your FCR's 39's or 41's?
Really?
39's
Hope you're back on the road soon as a 750 Monster is better than no Monster. Good idea parting out the spare motor while you plan your big bore project. Will be watching to see how things progress. Good to hear that Ignitech have it covered.
Those FCR 39s will come in handy be it a 750 , 900 or 1000.
Good luck.
Quote from: terse750 on June 16, 2015, 03:37:32 AM
Really?
39's
For a street bike...you bet. I'd feel safer with 41's on the DS motor.
The possibilities are endless. ;D
DP, it may have been more sporadic -Ducati was broke in '96-98 and the TPG changes (they bought Ducati in '96?) came slow.
My '98 M900 came w/ the "W" small valve/750 heads & cams.
I have "V" heads now from a 96 900ss. Gives a little more on top.
Terse, the heads are marked near the top on one side so you can see if they have the V or the W. V engines have a couple mm bigger valves, different cams, and maybe 5hp more.
According to the bikeboy report it was from late 96 non S model carbed Monsters. Brad gives an engine number. The easiest way is to look for the W or V.
I was about to buy a bike so I called Brad and asked for the cam markings and took the cam covers off the W heads to check if it hadnt been modified to V specs. Some people here worked the heads (expensive) but swapping them over wouldnt cost much in the US.
all good advice.
the 750 is a good motor to start with, not to upgrade to. you have more options with a carbie 900 motor.
someone near me sold their 94 900SS motor for $450. Good shape, needed a clutch and carbs.
This is my first motorcycle. Which I've had now for a few years and 30000+ miles
Damn wish I could find a deal like that...
Quote from: terse750 on June 16, 2015, 04:54:15 PM
This is my first motorcycle. Which I've had now for a few years and 30000+ miles
Damn wish I could find a deal like that...
If you have 30K on a 750...it owes you nothing.
You just need to be patient. Take the info you have and start looking for alternatives. You seem willing to buy the ignitek and have FCR's so you can make the 750 motor you have work so you can ride...keep in mind there will be a curve getting all your tuning mods to work. Lose the idea of 'building' a 750 and look for a bigger motor while you play with the 750.
[thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]
I feel that way exactly!
Once she's running again I'll be fine for a while. [beer]
Thanks for everyones help! Once I receive the Ignitech I'll have more to share about the outcome.
UPDATE:
Got her all disassembled. Figured I'd touch-up some of the paint while she's apart. So I striped her completely!
It's going to take way longer than originally planned but I'm hoping it will be worth it. I'm trying to black out anything silver on the bike...
Motor, calipers, rear caliper holder, ends of the rear shock, triple clamp and a few more.
Came across a few striped or damaged bolts which I'm sure is par for the course...
Ordering a cam gear tool and a couple others things that will be needed as of now.
The newer motor had it's rubber cam belt housing on the vertical head damaged so I need to get the tool.
I'm still figuring out how I'm going to prop or hang the motor to paint it thoroughly. I don't want to spend the dough on a motor mount right now.
Also thinking of going for a digital tach and speedo to free up some space up front. Any recommendations?
I saw a cheap DanMoto one that looks like a potential temporary fix.
Lots of folks use the vapor digital gauge
Cool! Thanks @memper I just ordered one from bike bandit for 70$ and change! [thumbsup]
Currently painting the motor and rearsets with Black VHT wrinkle paint amongst a few other parts [bacon] [drool]
Hoping it comes out pretty dope... [clap] haha
Current update:
Everything is back together to start the motor.
Clutch is back after a bleed, controls are good (foot and hand).
Carbs and throttle feeling smooth.
Belts all lined up and adjusted.
The only thing stopping me from throwing the plugs in and firing is the new Ignitech coil hookups.
It's unclear as to which coil gets which plug from the TCIP4 unit.
I'm worried it'll really mess things up if they are run backwards. [evil]
I don't want to fubar anything!
So I'm trying to locate the correct info, which seems to be limited at the moment. [bang]
Which cylinder do you think would be considered the #1 and which the #2 on a ducati?
I'm so close I can taste it!
Also still have to assemble the rear-end before... [Dolph]
She's looking bad ass [thumbsup]
From a post over on Ducati.ms:
"The pickup used on the fuel injected bikes is not my favourite setup for Ignitechs. The pickup used requires a special version of the Ignitech's to work. And I don't think triggering of gear teeth is the best way to do things. A comment made by one of the Ignitech staff recently seemed to suggest they found this pickup finicky to set up the Ignitech's input circuitry for, but given the language barrier I may have misinterpreted his comment. It may also be that the physical positioning of this sensor relative to the cam gear teeth is finicky but I haven't tried playing with shims to move it's position."
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/57-supersport/187881-new-unofficial-ignitech-manual-7.html (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/57-supersport/187881-new-unofficial-ignitech-manual-7.html)
I've found the hall effect sensor to be pretty noisy on the injected bikes. It's also really sensitive to proximity to other electrical noise.
I have the bike firing but can't give it throttle without it killing or sputtering and mis-firing.
I've bolted on the old mikuni carbs that were on before the teardown. Still same trouble.
It must be a timing issue, yes?
Both cylinders are firing...fyi
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Double check for vacuum leaks, and make sure the spark plug wires are at least an inch away from the sensor wire.
It could be a timing issue also, though. What advance are you running?
You really need to keep all this in one thread. It's getting too hard to follow.
Quote from: Dirty Duc on August 07, 2015, 09:08:08 AM
Double check for vacuum leaks, and make sure the spark plug wires are at least an inch away from the sensor wire.
It could be a timing issue also, though. What advance are you running?
Vacuum leaks would be? Tank and carb lines/hoses?
As to the advance... I have not been able to run the ignitech program on my girlfriends laptop.
I get a "Com error" code, clearly I'm not the most savvy with computers
also not having any luck with Ignitech's customer service/tech support [wine]
I just plugged the unit right in and have yet to successfully get it to communicate with my pc/program.
I installed a driver for the connecting plug which goes from the pc via usb to the Ignitech which is something else.
When I try to run the program or open it, I get a error code and thats pretty much it.
How much does the advance affect the bike and in what ways?
Quote from: terse750 on August 07, 2015, 09:21:08 AM
Vacuum leaks would be? Tank and carb lines/hoses?
Vacuum leaks would be carb install/sync ports. I don't know how your deal is set up, but maybe something to do with the way the manifolds fit.
Quote from: terse750 on August 07, 2015, 09:21:08 AM
As to the advance... I have not been able to run the ignitech program on my girlfriends laptop.
I get a "Com error" code, clearly I'm not the most savvy with computers
also not having any luck with Ignitech's customer service/tech support [wine]
I just plugged the unit right in and have yet to successfully get it to communicate with my pc/program.
I installed a driver for the connecting plug which goes from the pc via usb to the Ignitech which is something else.
When I try to run the program or open it, I get a error code and thats pretty much it.
I can't help here, but you need to connect to the ignitech. In fact, fixing that should be your first priority.
Quote from: terse750 on August 07, 2015, 09:21:08 AM
How much does the advance affect the bike and in what ways?
A lot. You say timing, I say advance, they are really part of the same phrase "timing advance." I believe ignitech uses a lookup table with rpm and degrees of advance... does it need a TPS, too?
Whats TPS?
Throttle Position Sensor.
But without knowing what is actually programmed into the unit, nobody is going to be able to give you useful advice.
Discussion of this issue here... http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=71421.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=71421.0)