Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: cintronr on June 21, 2015, 10:20:50 PM

Title: Best oil change interval.
Post by: cintronr on June 21, 2015, 10:20:50 PM
Hello everyone,

As the title states, what is the best oil change interval, how often should you change the oil? every 2000miles? 3000?
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Ddan on June 22, 2015, 03:46:52 AM
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.0)

It's in there
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: EEL on June 22, 2015, 03:12:13 PM
Summary:

Use a synthetic like mobil mx4t, use 10-40 for our bikes for proper heat dissipation, change every 3000 miles if you're a picky person or for peace of mind.

Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: ducpainter on June 22, 2015, 03:20:31 PM
Quote from: EEL on June 22, 2015, 03:12:13 PM
Summary:

Use a synthetic like mobil mx4t, use 10-40 for our bikes for proper heat dissipation, change every 3000 miles if you're a picky person or for peace of mind.


I'll continue to use 20-50 Klotz for my roller bearing headed M900...

thank you very much. ;D
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: He Man on June 23, 2015, 11:25:04 AM
I use Shell Diesel T6 in my Ducati....it worked great in my KX250F....DR650.....WR450F.....

hell at this point anythin slippery is looking like a pretty good candidate :P
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: jduke on June 24, 2015, 10:17:52 AM
I've never seen proof that cheap oil caused an engine failure.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Monsterlover on July 07, 2015, 04:12:38 AM
Quote from: jduke on June 24, 2015, 10:17:52 AM
I've never seen proof that cheap oil caused an engine failure.

Has it ever been proven car oil caused engine failure or damage?
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Howie on July 07, 2015, 06:56:54 AM
Besides the wet clutch problems associated with energy conserving (extra slippery) oils after SG classification the phosphorous and zinc needed for high pressure application like gearboxes  have been removed.  Diesel oils still have them so those oils are fine.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: ducpainter on July 07, 2015, 07:31:34 AM
Quote from: howie on July 07, 2015, 06:56:54 AM
Besides the wet clutch problems associated with energy conserving (extra slippery) oils after SG classification the phosphorous and zinc needed for high pressure application like gearboxes  have been removed.  Diesel oils still have them so those oils are fine.
If reports are correct, this may no longer be the case...

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/garage/467142-good-stuff-shell-rotella-t-oil-gone.html (http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/garage/467142-good-stuff-shell-rotella-t-oil-gone.html)

The link in the post is dead so I can't read for myself.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Howie on July 07, 2015, 11:14:32 AM
Link is alive now.  Hopefully they did what the Europeans did and found alternative additives.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Monsterlover on July 08, 2015, 02:59:35 AM
Here's why I ask

I've used Mobil 1 synthetic car oil in every bike I've owned and never had any issues with wear or clutch slip.

It started with my old m900 which had a dry clutch. I figured since it was dry it was exempt from the slippage problem.

Then I got my first 675 which is a wet clutch bike. 13,000 miles trouble free.

Then I got my KTM 950 smr. 20,000 miles trouble free. Still on the original clutch. A guy I know just sold his 950smr with 70,000 miles on it and he also was trouble free using the same oil. 

I guess I feel like I've got enough first hand evidence to be OK with the Mobil 1.

:-\
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: oldndumb on July 08, 2015, 09:31:29 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on July 07, 2015, 07:31:34 AM
If reports are correct, this may no longer be the case...

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/garage/467142-good-stuff-shell-rotella-t-oil-gone.html (http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/garage/467142-good-stuff-shell-rotella-t-oil-gone.html)

The link in the post is dead so I can't read for myself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read one of the threads in that link, it states that the zinc anti wear additives were part of the CI-4 specification and that, since the zinc was removed, CI-4 is no longer available. I use Rotella T6 (blue jug) and the label definitely lists CI-4 as one of several specifications. If it does it with zinc or something else, I think the significance is that it meets the specification.

Forgive me Father for weakening and posting to an oil thread. I realize the error of my ways and will now do penance.   :'(
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Howie on July 08, 2015, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: oldndumb on July 08, 2015, 09:31:29 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read one of the threads in that link, it states that the zinc anti wear additives were part of the CI-4 specification and that, since the zinc was removed, CI-4 is no longer available. I use Rotella T6 (blue jug) and the label definitely lists CI-4 as one of several specifications. If it does it with zinc or something else, I think the significance is that it meets the specification.

Forgive me Father for weakening and posting to an oil thread. I realize the error of my ways and will now do penance.   :'(

Wish I could.  Just dunno.  They may be using other additives like in Europe or you might have an old jug.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: oldndumb on July 08, 2015, 01:19:16 PM
Fresh jug off the WallyWorld shelf.

If the zinc is indeed forbidden, they obviously are using a substitute which meets the spec(s). BTW, it is also JASO MA.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: ducpainter on July 08, 2015, 01:56:00 PM
My point was if they removed the zinc and phosphorus, or the majority of it, and even if they replaced it with something else for diesel engine use we have no idea if those compounds meet the EP requirements of a Duc tranny.

Quote from: oldndumb on July 08, 2015, 09:31:29 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read one of the threads in that link, it states that the zinc anti wear additives were part of the CI-4 specification and that, since the zinc was removed, CI-4 is no longer available. I use Rotella T6 (blue jug) and the label definitely lists CI-4 as one of several specifications. If it does it with zinc or something else, I think the significance is that it meets the specification.


Quote from: oldndumb on July 08, 2015, 09:31:29 AM
Forgive me Father for weakening and posting to an oil thread. I realize the error of my ways and will now do penance.   :'(

Yeah...definitely treading over my head. :P
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: koko64 on July 08, 2015, 05:33:45 PM
Penrite oils (local brand), are emphasizing how they are using extra zinc in much of their range. My M900 uses minimal oil with Penrite compared to full synth Motul, which uses 500+ml over 5000 km.  Dunno why. Im not the only person to notice this. With the Penrite oil, at least I know the gearbox has some wear protection.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Howie on July 08, 2015, 08:01:20 PM
May be that their synthetic product is a blend of PAO and ester.  Different molecular chain. I believe most synthetics are pure ester.  Could be wrong.  Any chem experts out there?
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: koko64 on July 08, 2015, 09:21:54 PM
Its above my education level. ;D
I like it when the bike doesn't use oil, shifts well, sounds quiet and runs cool in summer. Something concrete to measure. I have to trust the experts on occasion. ;D

A builder of race motors said he had the same issue with Motul with excessive blow by and loss through the breather on air cooled race motors. I also get less oil consumption with old Yamalube! Might as well get the cheaper oil compared to Motul.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: jduke on July 09, 2015, 08:25:03 AM
Penright is available in the US of A, not cheap though....
http://snailperformanceracing.com/index.php/fluids-and-lubricants/motor-oil.html (http://snailperformanceracing.com/index.php/fluids-and-lubricants/motor-oil.html)
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Langanobob on July 10, 2015, 07:05:52 AM
Quote from: howie on July 08, 2015, 08:01:20 PM
May be that their synthetic product is a blend of PAO and ester.  Different molecular chain. I believe most synthetics are pure ester.  Could be wrong.  Any chem experts out there?

Not a chem expert or any kind of expert but in the USA most of the oils advertised as "synthetic" are highly refined petroleum based oil, categorized as Group III oils.  Redline, some Amsoil products and some of the other high end or "boutique" oils are real Group IV oils (PAO, ester) and are actually true synthetics, along with European and Asian synthetic oils.  In the USA the marketing guys won some sort of legal case some years back and are allowed to advertise that  their oil is synthetic even though it isn't. The principle being some sort of legal definition of the term synthetic.

Very hard to get the US oil manufacturers to tell us what their synthetic base oil is, if they won't tell you it's pretty conclusive evidence it's a Group III oil and not a true synthetic. 

Like anything to do with an oil thread, some of the details of what I posted above may not be absolutely scientifically correct, but I think that I have the basics right.

Bob
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: oldndumb on July 10, 2015, 07:44:49 AM
Quote from: Langanobob on July 10, 2015, 07:05:52 AM
.....

Like anything to do with an oil thread, some of the details of what I posted above may not be absolutely scientifically correct, but I think that I have the basics right.

Bob

I think you have it right. Believe it had to do with a lawsuit which Mobil lost and Castrol won. End result was a judge making the decision, instead of a tribologist.

One more lesson as to why you should never depend upon a court.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Howie on July 10, 2015, 07:57:21 AM
Yep, there should be a group III or IV label requirement.  Motul full synthetic claims to be ester. 
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: lightspd on July 10, 2015, 08:50:13 AM
There's never been a lawsuit, it was NAD of the BBB. So no real legal authority. Here's a link to an old car and driver article (http://web.archive.org/web/20030620090853/http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=3631) on it.
Title: Re: Best oil change interval.
Post by: Langanobob on July 10, 2015, 09:38:07 AM
Good article, thanks.