Ducati Monster Forum

Where is the discussion of the German GP? Is Rossi going to pull out another one? Will Marquez get the Honda to work there? And what about Lorenzo?

Apparently it's here.  Re-title with "SPOILERS ALERT" and we're good to go.


I hope so.


Probably.


Who cares?  ;D

Second on the Spoiler...

...so, MM hasn't lost here since 2009. That's a 125cc win in 2010, Moto2 wins in 2011 & 2012, and GP wins in 2013 & 2014. I think it's safe to say that he likes the track.

In the same timeframe:

Pedrobot has 3 wins, 1-2nd, and a DNS
JLo has 3-2nd, 1-3rd, and a DNS
Rossi has 1-3rd, 1 4th, and 2 years on the Duc

I think MM returns to the top step, and starts his second half charge. Pedrobot has his best race of the season. That leaves JLo or Rossi. I'm going to go with Rossi to edge him out since he's on a roll this season...this doesn't seem to be his favorite track though.

1) MM
2) Rossi
3) Pedrobot
4) JLo
5) Dovi

What kind of track is Sachsenring?  Power straights?  Tight turns?  Honda or yammy?



[Edit: Nevermind.  Read track description on Motogp.com: "Numerous tight corners make it one of the slower tracks on the calendar but there is never any shortage of close racing action." ]

I added a spoiler tag to this...it will happen.

tighter track, expecting Rossi, Lorenzo and Ianonne on the podium. [drink]

1. MM
2. Crazy Joe
3. Crusty

 [evil]

 Thank you gentlemen, now I feel better!

Described by some riders as a go kart track. Wonder how the Ducatis will go there.

The yammer jammers will clean house in think, mm isn't doing too well seeing as he's pretty far back and can't achieve any consistency with this year's frame, the contact and his best race happened when he switched back to last year's frame, and the yammies keep getting faster and faster, the ducati's as usual will be dangerous if anyone gets into a drag race with them

FP1...

Pos.   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time   Gap 1st/Prev.
1   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   293.0   1'21.766   
2   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   291.4   1'22.102   0.336 / 0.336
3   45   Scott REDDING   GBR   EG 0,0 Marc VDS   Honda   287.2   1'22.167   0.401 / 0.065
4   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   289.9   1'22.243   0.477 / 0.076
5   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   290.7   1'22.396   0.630 / 0.153
6   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   295.9   1'22.428   0.662 / 0.032
7   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   289.6   1'22.445   0.679 / 0.017
8   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   286.3   1'22.462   0.696 / 0.017
9   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   287.1   1'22.567   0.801 / 0.105
10   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   295.4   1'22.670   0.904 / 0.103
11   25   Maverick VIÑALES   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   285.4   1'22.674   0.908 / 0.004
12   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   293.3   1'22.696   0.930 / 0.022
13   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   293.3   1'22.698   0.932 / 0.002
14   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   291.1   1'22.792   1.026 / 0.094
15   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   284.5   1'22.935   1.169 / 0.143
16   8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   285.9   1'23.163   1.397 / 0.228
17   63   Mike DI MEGLIO   FRA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   288.7   1'23.299   1.533 / 0.136
18   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   283.2   1'23.878   2.112 / 0.579
19   50   Eugene LAVERTY   IRL   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   281.5   1'24.007   2.241 / 0.129
20   7   Hiroshi AOYAMA   JPN   AB Motoracing   Honda   285.5   1'24.063   2.297 / 0.056
21   15   Alex DE ANGELIS   RSM   E-Motion IodaRacing Team   ART   279.5   1'24.063   2.297
22   43   Jack MILLER   AUS   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   286.3   1'24.096   2.330 / 0.033
23   70   Michael LAVERTY   GBR   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   282.4   1'24.446   2.680 / 0.350
24   76   Loris BAZ   FRA   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   282.7   1'25.462   3.696 / 1.016
25   71   Claudio CORTI   ITA   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   281.9   1'26.771   5.005 / 1.309

FP2...

Pos.   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time   Gap 1st/Prev.
1   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   291.3   1'21.621   
2   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   293.7   1'21.740   0.119 / 0.119
3   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   296.0   1'21.824   0.203 / 0.084
4   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   290.2   1'21.886   0.265 / 0.062
5   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   293.4   1'21.889   0.268 / 0.003
6   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   283.3   1'22.095   0.474 / 0.206
7   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   288.9   1'22.159   0.538 / 0.064
8   45   Scott REDDING   GBR   EG 0,0 Marc VDS   Honda   287.9   1'22.170   0.549 / 0.011
9   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   290.8   1'22.196   0.575 / 0.026
10   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   298.2   1'22.340   0.719 / 0.144
11   8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   291.2   1'22.413   0.792 / 0.073
12   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   292.0   1'22.425   0.804 / 0.012
13   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   293.0   1'22.436   0.815 / 0.011
14   25   Maverick VIÑALES   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   285.7   1'22.507   0.886 / 0.071
15   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   291.0   1'22.546   0.925 / 0.039
16   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   282.6   1'23.008   1.387 / 0.462
17   63   Mike DI MEGLIO   FRA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   286.4   1'23.185   1.564 / 0.177
18   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   284.8   1'23.286   1.665 / 0.101
19   76   Loris BAZ   FRA   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   284.5   1'23.344   1.723 / 0.058
20   43   Jack MILLER   AUS   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   286.3   1'23.427   1.806 / 0.083
21   15   Alex DE ANGELIS   RSM   E-Motion IodaRacing Team   ART   280.3   1'23.821   2.200 / 0.394
22   7   Hiroshi AOYAMA   JPN   AB Motoracing   Honda   282.4   1'23.925   2.304 / 0.104
23   50   Eugene LAVERTY   IRL   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   284.3   1'23.952   2.331 / 0.027
24   70   Michael LAVERTY   GBR   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   283.3   1'24.594   2.973 / 0.642
25   71   Claudio CORTI   ITA   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   280.0   1'25.160   3.539 / 0.566

Marquez making a statement.

Marquez has gone back to using last year's frame. The results have been immediate.  [popcorn]

Yamahas are better under braking and cornering than Honda, seems like a twisty technical track. I see Yamaha having the advantage and I also see MM dumping it.

GO!!!!!!!!! Rossi

1. Marquez
2. Lorenzo
3. Rossi
4-6: Iannone, a Suzuki, Pedrosa

 I'm guessing Rossi, the tight track will make him and Maquez stay close together, and I think that Rossi still has a thing or two to teach marky.

I don't think Rossi cares much where Marquez finishes as long as Rossi is on a higher step of the podium than George.

That isn't to say he'll let Marc get away with a move like in Assen though. After all you have to keep the kids in their place.

^rumpus time is over  [laugh]

Tend to think the Hondas will do well at the ring,always has been their track,but then we have Rossi.Me thinks Rossi the Impaler will be at the pointy end,turn 13,14 great overtaking spot.mature Joe might resort back to maniac Joe ,this track perfect for it!

Great qualifying for MM especially, but also for Pedro & JLo. MM destroyed his old track record.  [bow_down]

Rossi on 2nd row...needs to get ahead of the Ducs to hang with the front row guys.

Rossi needs a blistering start to jump the front runners

MM ran 11 laps under 1:22 in FP3, and 7 laps at ~1:21.5 in FP4.
Pedrosa, JLo and Rossi all seem to be hovering around 1:22 flat, as far as any consistent pace.

I predict MM will make a break, followed by Pedrosa, leaving Lorenzo and Rossi to duke it out with the Andreas and Bradley and Pol for the last spot on the podium.

Happy to see Redding with some serious pace, dunno if they've found a bike setup or the proper adjustment of the nut between the seat and the bars.

The '14 chassis and whatever other tweaks the MM camp have found seem to have gotten the package to behave close to what Marc wants.
Crutchlow pointed out that MM was on a '14 MM chassis (one of what, 3 different ones they had for '14?) which was not the same as a '14 Pedrosa chassis, nor what anyone else was running.

So it seems that Cal held up Dani at one point which pissed Dani off and he wound up punching his tank.  They then handed Cal a bill for it haha

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/221009/1/crutchlow-sorry-dani-hails-hernandez-smith.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/221009/1/crutchlow-sorry-dani-hails-hernandez-smith.html)

Hoping that Rossi makes it past the slower guys tomorrow or that might be a pretty big issue.  If he doesnt I'm not sure about his chances at a podium.

^^^

Dani really is a turd.

Haha so Dani finally shows a bit of aggro towards Cal,what a save from Bradley.hell fell out me chair watching,bring on the race.

Typical snooze fest race

Only a bit at the end but I'd say it was a fun race to watch, especially during the first half.

Good to see that MM's truly back. Also good to see the Turd getting back his confidence. HRC has nothing to lose now that they're basically assured that they won't win the championship.

What I did not like... Dovi. He's usually consistent if nothing else. No idea what the hell is happening to him. Crazy Joe is gunnin for the #1 spot for sure

My prediction wasn't too bad, other than Pedro beating Rossi.  :)

MM is back for sure. Watch out in the second half. He needs help to the championship, but he'll likely grab a lot of points regardless.

Great race by Pedro. Good to see him back up to speed as well.

Championship really needs the ducs in there on the pidium for the first 3 races after the break. With MM winning. Not going to happen, but would make the few races potentially very tight. Especially if there is a Rossi dnf.

Dovi is on the decline and ianonne can't seem to crack into the top tier, always one pack back.,

It's as if the ducatis performed just well enough to lose their concessions and then they plateaued.

I was thinking that during the race too and how that's going to affect the next round of contract negotiations.  By the time that Dovi's is up I'm thinking that he's going to have a hard time keeping his ride.  I can see Duc trying for Dani or JLo at that point with massive $$ behind the offer.

Nothing against Dovi but he's always going to be a B rider to me.  Great at stopping people from passing him but not an alien.  Duc needs a alien + dovi or ianonne.  And I think Duc would prefer Ianonne at this point over Dovi.

I also love the fact that it took Ianonne messing up his shoulder to force him to ride in a smoother style... which then made him faster on the bike.

Hard to understand what has happened to Dovi....
Bit like Jorge and all his little issues....
The Yammy has been improving, Honda are in a better place now with the old frame but seems like the Duc is as good as it is going to get in the short term, so plateau seems to be correct...Or while trying to improve things they have gone too far with the electronics.

B rider?...really?

There's one thing that separates Dovi, Rossi, Jlo, Marquez, and for that matter Hayden from Iannone and Pedro and IMO it will always be that way.

Iannone and Pedro will never be a World Champion.

Alien...bullshit...they just happen to be the man of the moment.

I say that because of that year he was on the Honda with Casey and Pedro.  Best bike on the grid, great results... but always in 3rd place behind the other two.  Other years he might have had lesser bikes, but that was his year to shine but didnt.  So if the aliens are A riders... he's the B.  The same with Cal and Iannone... but I think Iannone has the chance to grow vs Dovi having been around a while now with nothing to show for it.

There is no way Pedro is going to leave Honda or JLo leave Yamaha by their own will.

And I strongly disagree with the decision to end Ducati's concessions. Sure the bike is better than the GP14 but it's still so new.

At any rate, it's good to see MM back to form. Good race by the turd to hold off Vale and good solid riding by Crazy Joe.

Agreed...and Honda and Yamaha aren't going to get rid of either of them.

Dovi had a good year in 2011, beating Pedro...but Pedro also missed 3 or 4 races. Dovi had a lot of podiums, but never a win that season.

It's hard to say how good the Ducati is at the moment, because I don't think either rider is capable of beating Rossi, JLo, Pedrobot, MM on an even playing field. That's not to say they aren't good riders...they just aren't top 3-4 in this field.

IMO Ducati proved they should lose the concessions next season. All they lost this season was a couple liters of fuel, that they say they weren't using anyway. They still have about half the season to find the last little bit, if it's the bike and not the riders.

Pedro already has 3 world championships to Dovi's 1. I don't think either will ever get one in GP....but I'd put money on Pedro over Dovi if I had to choose. Better results over his career.

I put Pedro on the wrong side of the equation...brain cramp. ;)

I meant to say Iannone would never be a world champion.

Said before, will continue to say it... Ducati needs to either make a play for 1 of the top 4 riders or gamble on young talent. Maybe even go for Marquez2.

I'd say young talent. I just can't see any of the top 4 leaving their spots at Yamaha & Honda. Maybe if Pedro gets pushed out for someone, but I don't see that happening either.

Bah, one win does not a comeback make, mm has a lot to learn still and hrc is going to have to swallow their hubris eventually

+1

I'm wondering why Pedro is still at Honda, always in the shadows, never a gp championship, if it was gonna happen it would've already, he doesn't even make much sense for the manufacturer points anymore since he's missed out so much this year

Really? He has fought for the past 2 wins. All it took was HRC to go back to last year's chassis. What exactly does he need to learn other than not to try to ram Rossi on the last lap in Assen?


Again, really? The Turd is only the 4th best rider on the grid right now. Ducati would kill to have him on their bike. Shit, just about anyone manufacturer, except for Yamaha, would want that. At worst, he's the second best #2 rider. Regardless if he'll ever win a championship, he's still fast, but not as young as he used to be, so you won't see him banging fenders with the likes of Rossi and MM any time soon. He still has the potential to win just about any race.

Really? Since his rookie year in 2006, he's only finished out of the top 3 once, in 2011 when he missed several races. He'll likely finish out of the top 3 this season as well...due to injuries and missing races. He'll likely finish either 4th or 5th.

Who is better and deserves his ride?

I'm guessing you're a rabid Rossi fan? The statement about HRC hubris and MM having a lot to learn is some good stuff!  [laugh]

I'm not denying that Pedrosa is a fine rider, but to say he finished out of the top three once, in a four horse race, well you see what im getting at.

But he is one of the 4 horses, plus he has had horrid luck with injuries. Off the top of my head, I only remember 1 season where he was not injured.

He's not in a 4 horse race...there are usually 15+ riders on the grid. He's continually one of the top 3. Recognize the difference?

I'll ask again. Who is better and deserves his ride? The answer is no one.

+1 to Carlos on injuries as well...not a single season in GP without one. No one has ever won a GP championship without a bit of luck. Pedro has the talent, but has had some rough injury luck.

Yeah, I guess that's the drawback for being his size/weight.  Great acceleration... not so good at bouncing.

My point is that pedrosas time seems to be up, he's aging out and has never made it to the top, all the other riders we are talking about here either have a gp championship already or are still on the rise, Pedro isn't, time to get some more young talent on the board, rossi will likely take his #10 gp championship this year and possibly retire, leaving Jorge, mm, dovi, iannone, and pedrosa as the powerhouse riders, I'm sure there's some talent being eyeballed in moto 2 that could make a break into gp just like Jorge, and simonchelli(sp) did

If that's your reasoning, then you need to drop Dovi off of your list. He's been in GP for almost as long as Pedro, with nowhere near the results.

Iannone hasn't won a single championship in any class, so I don't know about putting him in the "powerhouse" category. I like the guy, but if I had to choose between him and Pedro for the next few years, it would be an easy choice.

People seem to have something against Pedro, likely because of his bland personality. The fact is he's one of the best ever though (currently 8th on the all-time wins list)...but has had bad injury luck (likely due to his size).

I'd like to see Crutchlow get the full factory ride. He's more tenacious than Pedrosa who's had that bike tailored to him after Nicky won the championship. Repsol put all their hope into Pedrosa and he's never delivered for them.

Talking about bad luck, Cal has just made some decisions that have simply not panned out. He could have stayed at Tech3, but instead went over to the shitty Duc. Then he decided not to take the chance and ended up with the shitty Honda. So for 2 seasons he has gone backwards.

Crutchow's problem isn't luck IMO, it's his impatience. He went to Ducati knowing full well the bike needed development, then bailed before the improvements came along...while knowing full well they were underway. In addition, he's proven to be a bit of a loud mouth. Even though he won't admit it I guarantee he regrets leaving Ducati. I doubt another factory will give him a chance...at least not Ducati, Yamaha, or Honda. I guess Suzuki or Aprilia might.

I don't know if it was all Cal in the divorce with Ducati.  It seemed to me that Duc was looking to show him the door too as they had 2 other riders doing a lot better than him.  You started to see Cal getting grips on the bike halfway through the season, quicker than Dovi/Iannone did since they had a full year of xp over him but too little too late.

I think Cal is on par with Dovi... both can make the championship interesting but they only really get onto the podium if the other aliens make a pretty big mistake.  And no way that Cal would take Pedro's spot.

I think the major factor that might make Dani's spot shaky is if Casey finally changes his mind and decides he wants to come back.  I would have thought that that would never happen but the comments he made earlier this year about covering for Dani make me think he might be getting a bit antsy just racing RC cars in Oz.

So do we have a thread yet about the next round?

No

Nope, his spot was given to Bradley Smith.

I thought his spot was given to Pol?

+1 IIRC Pol was brought in after Cal had made the decision. Ducati was not pushing him out, they extended his contract. More likely they were hoping to have Dovi and Cal, both with experience on Yamahas and Honda, for this year's bike development. Who knows hat might have happened this year, but they were assured some very expensive test riders. Iannone was already set to riding a factory bike under Pramac. And I doubt the factories will have any issue hiring Cal as long as he improves his consistency. He might not be an Alien, but he's a solid #2.

Like I said, his spot was given to Pol.  :P

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/motogp/22529094 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/motogp/22529094)

I feel kinda bad for Hayden. I have to wonder what he could have done with the GP15.

Slight deviation...experts, please...


With all the anal rules in MotoGP, how is (Honda) using last-year's chassis 'legal'?

If already answered, thanks for pointing me in correct direction.

AFAIK, there's no restriction on chassis version at all.

I don't think it even has to be homologated.

Yep, chassis design is wide open