I just hit 3,200 miles on my 821 Monster and noticed the tread at the center of the rear tire is worn to the core. I don't consider my riding style particularly aggressive. I've never had a rear tire wear this quickly. is this mileage typical for the Diablo Rosso IIs?
Yes... [Dolph]
Soft grippy tyre ! If your commuting probably not the tyre for you.
What psi are you running?
The Diablo Rosso II is a short-lived, though grippy, tire. I got 5,200 miles on my original set, but probably pushed them too far.
I switched to Pirelli Angel GTs on the advice of my dealer, for better mileage. So far, I've matched the original 5,200 miles with this replacement set, and see no *obvious* wear in the center. And the handling is perfectly acceptable for the twisty sections.
I run 32 PSI front, 34 PSI rear.
Unless you're dragging a knee, and maybe even then, it's hard to beat Michelin PR4's.
I got just o ver 6k in a pilot power 3 and only changed it because I'm going on a long ride next week and didn't want to worry about some bozo working on my spiffy wheels. I feel that there was another k in them but my worry wart buddy insisted that I change it!
My vote is for the Pirelli Angels
i got a set of Pirrelli rosso corsa 2 down to the inner carcase and it took 9700 miles on an S4 ,
Quote from: muskrat on July 23, 2015, 02:53:05 PM
My vote is for the Pirelli Angels
I have a couple of riding buddies that love the Angels. One has tried the PR3 and likes the Angel more.
I might have to try a set soon and see.
Pirelli Angels; I've gotten 12k out of two rears, and 20k out of a front.
Predominantly commuting, on an M750.
Rule of thumb is to run tires that will not last you longer than 2 years.
AFAIK, the original Diablos are still available, I think they're usually referred to as SuperSports.
Those may last longer than the Rosso II.
Mileage is very dependent on the road surface.
The bulk of my mileage on the Angels was on a concrete freeway, that had been recently flattened.
Dunno what abrasive or cutter they used, while stopped in traffic it looks like a very aggressive surface.
One of the popular mountain roads here was recently resurfaced, not sure if it was diamond grit or crushed razor blades.
Regular riding on that road cut tire life in half for one of my customers.
My M900 had them and I they made me feel just as confident as the Rosso's do on my S4R now. Granted more torque and all but I did all I could to find the limit so I wouldn't panic if they ever slipped, kinda like when riding dirt bikes. [evil] I hear the new ones are a huge improvement also.
Glad I'm not the only one. I have about 6K on the stock Rosso IIs and IMO, they suck for treadlife. Honestly, I found both the PR2 and PR3 to be more predictable than these and twice the life to boot. Got well over 10K on a PR2.
Problem is, I don't want to switch out the front just yet, but the back has got to be replaced. But I don't want to go with another RII...
I'm leaning towards sport tyres for the front and sport/touring tyres for the back. So next time around I'm thinking Michelin Pilot Road 4 rear and Pilot Power 3 front, or whatever equivalent brand for a good deal.
Well, I guess I'm screwed then. I just looked up options for the rear. The stock tire size is 180/60/17 which means I can either run race tires, the Rosso IIs, or cruiser tires.
WTF? Why does no one make a good sport/sport touring tire in this size???
AFAIK, it's only a handful of Ducati models use that size.
60 profile? 55 will give many, many options. Surely you would get away with that. It's riskier, but some 190/50 tyres will give that profile on a 5.5" rim. Hmmm Ducati want to quicken tip in with the 180/60?
Quote from: koko64 on February 16, 2016, 09:02:32 AM
60 profile? 55 will give many, many options. Surely you would get away with that. It's riskier, but some 190/50 tyres will give that profile on a 5.5" rim. Hmmm Ducati want to quicken tip in with the 180/60?
No clue, but that's the stock size on the 821. My S2R1000 was a 180/55 which gave plenty of options...
So, whats the end result if I step down 5% aspect ratio?
I've heard that the TC throws in the towel if a 180/55 is fitted.
My understanding is it's the same rolling radius as the 190/55 that's used on the big SF, and the Monster 1200.
So they could use the exact same TC system.
Ducati started the 180/60 nonsense with the 848SF.
Seems the small Pani has it as well.
The M821 has a 5.50 width rear rim with a 180/60, and the M1200 has a 5.60 rim and a 190/55.
I'd be tempted to fit a 190/55 and see how it works, as I expect there's all the usual variety of tires available in 190/55.
Forgot about the bloody TC. So a 190 might work?
I'd use the 190 as well. I know on the early SBK's with TC that were fitted with 'Stones the TC wouldn't work. You'd think Ducati would put a circumference parameter in the software both for the TC and the speedo.
I also question whether any other manufacturer's tire in a 180/60 would be the same as the Pirelli. Have you ever stood behind bikes with the same marked tire size and actually looked at them? None appear the same regardless of whether they're on the same width rim.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 16, 2016, 09:46:46 AM
I'd use the 190 as well. I know on the early SBK's with TC that were fitted with 'Stones the TC wouldn't work. You'd think Ducati would put a circumference parameter in the software both for the TC and the speedo.
I also question whether any other manufacturer's tire in a 180/60 would be the same as the Pirelli. Have you ever stood behind bikes with the same marked tire size and actually looked at them? None appear the same regardless of whether they're on the same width rim.
Yeah. Don't know why there isn't some type of standard that actually gets adhered to.
I'll take a look at 190s, but should I expect a decrease in the speed of tip in?
Quote from: NAKID on February 16, 2016, 09:54:48 AM
Yeah. Don't know why there isn't some type of standard that actually gets adhered to.
I'll take a look at 190s, but should I expect a decrease in the speed of tip in?
I doubt you'd notice much of a difference...depending on the actual width of the Pirelli compared to what you get.
If you were going from the old Dunlop 170 to a 190 then yes. Maybe if you were staying within the same brand and went to the next size.
Michelin has changed their rim width recommendations for track tires. So now a 5.5" rim can take a 190 and a 6" takes a 200. Whether the tires are different or they just don't want to make 180 track tires...who knows? ???
as long as you don't have a 5% difference in overall circumferece or OD the BBS[Black Box System], the one that controls body functions as ABS/TC and such, will be able to compensate . . .
IIRC, a customer here tore his rear tire on a piece of metal, installed a 55 series, constant TC intervention and ABS was coming in even set at least intrusive setting . . .
Quote from: ducpainter on February 16, 2016, 10:09:54 AM
I doubt you'd notice much of a difference...depending on the actual width of the Pirelli compared to what you get.
If you were going from the old Dunlop 170 to a 190 then yes. Maybe if you were staying within the same brand and went to the next size.
Michelin has changed their rim width recommendations for track tires. So now a 5.5" rim can take a 190 and a 6" takes a 200. Whether the tires are different or they just don't want to make 180 track tires...who knows? ???
I want to get away from the Pirelli and go to a PR3. So maybe I won't notice anything...
Quote from: NAKID on February 16, 2016, 10:17:46 AM
I want to get away from the Pirelli and go to a PR3. So maybe I won't notice anything...
Easy enough to take a circumference measurement on the old tire and the new.
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on February 16, 2016, 10:17:08 AM
as long as you don't have a 5% difference in overall circumferece or OD the BBS[Black Box System], the one that controls body functions as ABS/TC and such, will be able to compensate . . .
IIRC, a customer here tore his rear tire on a piece of metal, installed a 55 series, constant TC intervention and ABS was coming in even set at least intrusive setting . . .
Huge difference in the actual change between a 5% difference in diameter and circumference...no?
Quote from: ducpainter on February 16, 2016, 10:25:03 AM
Easy enough to take a circumference measurement on the old tire and the new.
Huge difference in the actual change between a 5% difference in diameter and circumference...no?
>>> Service Manager in Italy told me that . . . I am just passing the 411
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on February 16, 2016, 10:38:22 AM
>>> Service Manager in Italy told me that . . . I am just passing the 411
I understand...just doesn't compute.
Watching for the outcome, as this will become an important issue for owners of newer bikes. I wonder how Japan Inc deals with this issue? It must only be a matter of software twaeking but I cynically lean towards a tyre deal with a sole mfr being the reason for such tight software parameters. :P
Quote from: koko64 on February 17, 2016, 05:00:56 PM
Watching for the outcome, as this will become an important issue for owners of newer bikes. I wonder how Japan Inc deals with this issue? It must only be a matter of software twaeking but I cynically lean towards a tyre deal with a sole mfr being the reason for such tight software parameters. :P
As much as I hate to say it...I agree about the conspiracy...'cuz money makes the world go 'round'. :-\
Quote from: koko64 on February 17, 2016, 05:00:56 PM
Watching for the outcome, as this will become an important issue for owners of newer bikes. I wonder how Japan Inc deals with this issue? It must only be a matter of software twaeking but I cynically lean towards a tyre deal with a sole mfr being the reason for such tight software parameters. :P
I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. Searching the interwebs, I can't find a sport tire in this size other than the Rosso II. The Angel GT is a touring tire, there are race tire options and a couple cruiser optons. But that's it...
So, now I don't know how much if any this applies to moto tires, but this is pretty interesting:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=180-60r17-190-55r17 (https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=180-60r17-190-55r17)
*Theoretically* it applies in the same way.
Quote from: Speeddog on February 19, 2016, 10:04:35 AM
*Theoretically* it applies in the same way.
Right. But I'm wondering how the profile of the tire may be different between the two.
Now, assuming this calculator is accurate, is the 1.1% difference in circumference going to screw with the TC? I'd think it wouldn't. I would assume (again, strong word) that there is a bit of tolerance built into the software to accommodate for wear of the tire.
Yes? No?
that 1.1% shouldn't affect . . . there is about 5% tolerance but, the closer the better
Quote from: NAKID on February 19, 2016, 10:10:59 AM
Right. But I'm wondering how the profile of the tire may be different between the two.
Now, assuming this calculator is accurate, is the 1.1% difference in circumference going to screw with the TC? I'd think it wouldn't. I would assume (again, strong word) that there is a bit of tolerance built into the software to accommodate for wear of the tire.
Yes? No?
My only experience is with a 1098...I think it was the 1098...that came with Stones and the TC would not work with the same size Dunlop or Michelin tire.
I don't know if they've built more flexibility into the parameters. You'd think if they truly wanted flexibility they'd put an adjustable circumference parameter into the software, like they do with electronic speedos, so it would work with any size tire.
Circumference will change at least 2-3% over the life of the tire.
From the chatter I've seen, the TC does somehow have a problem.
I really can't see how it does have a problem.
The profile of a tire changes dramatically as it wears, usually flat in the center with a slightly flattened area on each side of that, blending into the untouched area on the shoulder.
Occasionally, two flats on either side for a hard-riding canyon runner.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 19, 2016, 10:48:18 AM
My only experience is with a 1098...I think it was the 1098...that came with Stones and the TC would not work with the same size Dunlop or Michelin tire.
I don't know if they've built more flexibility into the parameters. You'd think if they truly wanted flexibility they'd put an adjustable circumference parameter into the software, like they do with electronic speedos, so it would work with any size tire.
Well, I'll let you know next week. Ordered the 190/55/17 Pirelli Angel GT (figured I'd stick with the same brand). Considering most of my riding is commuting and I'm starting to carry a passenger more, I'd go this route rather than the PR.
After just over 6000 miles, this Rosso II is showing belt.
My ex-Ducati source (who I expected would know, due to his previous position) said he was not aware of any problem with tire swaps on M820 and Pani899.
[popcorn]
Quote from: Speeddog on February 19, 2016, 12:51:01 PM
My ex-Ducati source (who I expected would know, due to his previous position) said he was not aware of any problem with tire swaps on M820 and Pani899.
[popcorn]
Good to know. I certainly hope not. I don't like to be the guinea pig in this scenario...
The internet chatter seemed to be saying that if the TC was turned down low or off (?) it would work.
Just chatted with a customer with a '14 899Pani, said he fitted a 180/55 and saw no issue.
He had the traction control turned down low, but he said the TC light would still come on occasionally when accelerating hard in 1st or 2nd, indicating the TC was still intervening.
Perhaps the earlier years had an issue, and they fiddled with the software.
Good news is that's a popular size of tire, so you can flip it easy if it doesn't work. :-\