Ducati Monster Forum

FP2

1   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   333.1   1'47.517   
2   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   332.6   1'48.200   0.683 / 0.683
3   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   334.0   1'48.318   0.801 / 0.118
4   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   337.8   1'48.358   0.841 / 0.040
5   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   337.2   1'48.401   0.884 / 0.043
6   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   340.3   1'48.445   0.928 / 0.044
7   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   329.8   1'48.524   1.007 / 0.079
8   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   340.2   1'48.575   1.058 / 0.051
9   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   341.9   1'48.615   1.098 / 0.040
10   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   336.6   1'48.829   1.312 / 0.214
11   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   336.6   1'48.955   1.438 / 0.126
12   45   Scott REDDING   GBR   EG 0,0 Marc VDS   Honda   331.0   1'49.007   1.490 / 0.052
13   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   LCR Honda   Honda   336.3   1'49.064   1.547 / 0.057
14   8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   336.6   1'49.225   1.708 / 0.161
15   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   328.7   1'49.576   2.059 / 0.351
16   25   Maverick VIÑALES   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   329.9   1'49.680   2.163 / 0.104
17   76   Loris BAZ   FRA   Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   323.9   1'49.700   2.183 / 0.020
18   50   Eugene LAVERTY   IRL   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   330.8   1'49.769   2.252 / 0.069
19   6   Stefan BRADL   GER   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   327.0   1'49.980   2.463 / 0.211
20   63   Mike DI MEGLIO   FRA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   334.5   1'50.039   2.522 / 0.059
21   43   Jack MILLER   AUS   LCR Honda   Honda   326.7   1'50.157   2.640 / 0.118
22   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   324.9   1'50.462   2.945 / 0.305
23   15   Alex DE ANGELIS   RSM   E-Motion IodaRacing Team   ART   321.1   1'50.719   3.202 / 0.257
24   24   Toni ELIAS   SPA   Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   333.1   1'51.162   3.645 / 0.443
25   17   Karel ABRAHAM   CZE   AB Motoracing   Honda   323.1   1'51.638   4.121 / 0.476

JL/VR at 1/2.  Looks like the last 5 races are gonna be a real fight.  No one backing down.   [thumbsup]

That said, JLo has clearly got the bike dialed in.  Over 0.5s faster than Rossi.

Any particular reason you're posting motogp Aragon results in the SBK Jerez thread? :P

Whatever, same thing.  They're both Spanish.   ;D


Thanks for the fix.

;D

Hondas ran with hard though, while Yamahas with mid.

Good catch.  I had it on at work but the volume was low so as to not bother my neighbors, so I didn't get to hear commentary.

A softer tire doesn't always equate to a faster lap time, and even if it does work will it work race distance?

It's more complicated than that.

WOW!!

Pole position to MM
2nd JLo
3rd Ianonne
6th Rossi

JLo looks razor sharp

Cant wait [popcorn]
will Rossi find something in the fial practice session? Often does.

1 93 Marc MARQUEZ SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 334.9 1'48.181 
2 99 Jorge LORENZO SPA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 333.9 1'48.461 0.280 / 0.280
3 44 Pol ESPARGARO SPA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 332.1 1'48.597 0.416 / 0.136
4 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 329.9 1'48.734 0.553 / 0.137
5 26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 336.3 1'48.866 0.685 / 0.132
6 38 Bradley SMITH GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 334.1 1'49.015 0.834 / 0.149
7 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Ducati Team Ducati 339.5 1'49.269 1.088 / 0.254
8 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR LCR Honda Honda 328.1 1'49.287 1.106 / 0.018
9 25 Maverick VIÑALES SPA Team SUZUKI ECSTAR Suzuki 328.6 1'49.533 1.352 / 0.246
10 29 Andrea IANNONE ITA Ducati Team Ducati 341.4 1'49.616 1.435 / 0.083
11 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ COL Octo Pramac Racing Ducati 336.2 1'49.758 1.577 / 0.142
12 9 Danilo PETRUCCI ITA Octo Pramac Racing Ducati 330.4 1'50.005 1.824 / 0.247

Cheers Lars

Thats the best I've seen Pedro duke it out.
Great ride again for Crazy Andrew with his crook shoulder.

Pos.   Points   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time/Gap
1   25   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   167.8   41'44.933
2   20   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   167.6   +2.683
3   16   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   167.6   +2.773
4   13   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   167.3   +7.858
5   11   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   166.2   +24.322
6   10   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   166.2   +24.829
7   9   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   LCR Honda   Honda   166.1   +25.367
8   8   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   166.1   +25.503
9   7   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   166.0   +26.452
10   6   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   164.9   +43.889
11   5   25   Maverick VIÑALES   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   164.9   +44.255
12   4   45   Scott REDDING   GBR   EG 0,0 Marc VDS   Honda   164.6   +48.176
13   3   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   164.5   +49.755
14   2   50   Eugene LAVERTY   IRL   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   164.5   +50.271
15   1   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   164.5   +50.364
16      8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   164.5   +50.722
17      76   Loris BAZ   FRA   Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   164.4   +51.997
18      6   Stefan BRADL   GER   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   164.3   +53.406
19      43   Jack MILLER   AUS   LCR Honda   Honda   164.1   +56.859
20      63   Mike DI MEGLIO   FRA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   163.9   +59.607
21      24   Toni ELIAS   SPA   Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   162.9   +1'15.237

Marquez crashed out on lap 2.

Pedrosa wouldn't let Rossi by, and Rossi didn't have the pace to make it stick, in a great battle for the last 5 or 6 laps.

The Turd really stuffed it to Rossi

Boy O Boy

I'm thinking Dani is out of the will. ;D

If you get a chance watch the Moto3 race. :o :o :o

My boy Maverick had a good race

Who was riding Dani's bike!?  That's what this season needed, another rider with a  decent bike and some skilz/gumption.

I feel for Iannone.  Better health and a better bike would have him on the podium frequently.

Watching Lorenzo run lap after lap is like watching paint dry.

Has Rossi ever won a championship when on Not on a special tyre flown in overnight that he was privy too? In the major class that is

 [popcorn] ;D

Yes...in 2009.

Being a late developer, Dani's cojones finally dropped. He hit straight back at Rossi with tough but controlled passes. If he rides like that every race he could finally win a premiere championship.

Dani has to never crash again to do that though. He breaks every time he falls off.

The chances of him not crashing riding at that level are slim to none.

Yeah, he dont bounce as well as the others that's for sure. Must be very fine boned with very little muscle. Is he still the lightest rider?

Not sure...Elias is back in motogp now. :P

I think Elias is strong and sinewy, closer to Capirossi who was a tiny ball of muscle, but Dani is bird boned it seems.

I was kind of joking, had to look, but Pedrosa, as of 2013, was 6 kilos lighter and 5 cm shorter than Elias.

Interestingly Dovi is lighter than Elias in the same chart.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/04/13/number_crunching_how_much_of_a_factor_is.html

Cool article. Who knew that 72kg made you a man mountain? [laugh]
There's quite a few little buggers there, but some are robust like MM despite being small and some are more injury prone like Pedrosa.

Pedrosa's bones are equivalent to drinking straws.  That's where the six kilos come from. 

I really thought with Rossi behind him pushing so hard Dani was going to lose it.  But he didn't!  Dani really gave it to Rossi.  That was some old school experience sprinkled with a bit of "F#ck you! I'm here to race.  pregnant dog." 

The difference in the two bikes was so clear watching Dani and Rossi ride together.  Dani's bike was bucking and hopping all over the place.  Rossi's bike was smooth and predictable. 

MM will be broken beyond repair in 5yrs.

If he continues the way he is going now I agree, but time will tell.

I predict he'll accept that the limit is just a little lower than he believes it is now and stop crashing

Jorge went through the same thing.

He was soooooooo angry when he crashed.  I like him, and I generally don't laugh at others' misfortune, but I couldn't help chuckling at his body language and reaction.  ;D  We've all been there.  >:(

Jorge was a far more spectacular crasher than MM, I think he still owns the altitude record from China 2008.
And Rossi ought to point that out to Jorge, that he must be looking forward to the Michelins since they worked so well in China.

MM's gotta learn to let go of the bars earlier, he's gonna FUBAR a hand.

Jorge gets the nod for altitude, but anyone that can crash at 200 mph and not die is good at what he does.

Marc will mellow with age. ;)

He's a tough little bugger.

How many times did MM crash last year? I remember that it seemed it crashed in every FP, then was able to keep it together for the races. He seems to be going the opposite direction this year.

The Turd still has some racing in him. He also had some good racing with Dovi a few races back. I still think that Ducati should be going after him come 2017, if his brittle bones still allow him to race.

What makes you think he can win on the Duc when he couldn't win consistently on the best bike, maybe not this year, on the grid?

Dani is not Rossi.  His clock is ticking.  He does have a few good years left.  Will he just retire from Honda and leave on a high note?  Or will he pull a Nicky Hayden and enjoy finishing 15th?

How long is Ianonne's contract with Ducati?  I hope Honda replaces Dani with Iannone. 

I don't think he can win consistently. Only 3 people of the grid can win more than a couple of times a year, but those 3 are very unlikely to leave their current seats. IMHO, the Turd would be a better option to Dovi.

I don't think he can win on anything anymore.

The landscape will be different next year with the tire and electronics changes.

I think the first few races will be extremely beneficial for Ducati because of the fact the spec ecu is Magnetti Marelli.

I think it will give them a brief advantage until Yamaha and Honda spend the required millions, under race conditions, to get up to speed.

Good point. Should level things at the start. Crazy Andrew will love it. Maybe Ducati should get Jack Miller on a B team.
Dani is worth chasing to put on Dovis bike. Maybe he's mentally toughening up with age.

I disagree about Dani.

You reckon too long on the Honda to change this late in his career?

Im encouraged by his latest ride against Rossi, but maybe its asking too much. The Ducati can do your head in. Ask Melandri.

This was just one race, folks.  Helluva ride by Dani, but let's not paint him as the bad-ass late-in-life I-don't-give-a-crap rebel at the start of a new ascendancy.  Let him repeat it a few times before we start crowning him the next big threat or giving him new rides.  Until then, he remains just one of 4 aliens, the rest of whom are less fragile and more consistent.

I would need to see Dani perform like that more than once before I'd chase him. Even then he's been on that Honda for how long and he finally felt good on the bike? [roll]

The Ducati that Melandri rode is different than the Duc today.

Maybe enough $$$ could make him think about his future. He's the second rider at Honda. He aint gonna retire and be a game show host or race commentator  so maybe one last chance to be no 1 team rider. No one else will move. Or steal Maverick and Alex?

At least the Duc turns now with more feel. Melandri was made to see a shrink. Gigi has a better respect for rider input.

How can he be #1 when 'The Maniac' is faster?

You reckon Crazy Andrew is faster on the same bike? I'm a fan of nutty Andy and I hope you're right.

As I posted under News, I've neglected Moto2/3 so far this year, so I'm oblivious, but are there any young aliens-in-the-making that might be a prime candidate for a Duc seat next year?

MM crashed 11 times in 2014, compared to 15 times in 2013. Bradley Smith crashed the most in 2014 with 16. MotoGP does a crash statistics summary for every season.

For those that think MM is going to crash himself out...he's having a tough year because the Honda isn't as good as it was in the last 2 years, and he isn't just taking what it will give him. That's what a young guy, who won the title in his first 2 years, does. I think he'll be fine as he mellows...just like JLo, who was a crashing machine when he showed up in GP. His riding style has already mellowed a bit. Any rider is just one crash away from retirement though. Ask Ben Spies.

Oh...excellent race for Pedro!!!

Next year...no

Give it another...TSWHTF

I do think that if Rossi is in that situation again he'll push Pedro earlier and harder.  I think Rossi felt that if he got by Pedro then there wouldnt be a fight so he could hold off on the attempts till later.

Yes, he is one of 4 aliens, who just so happens to be the least secure on a ride. This year he has not felt comfortable on the bike and maybe with next year's changes, it would be the best time for him to take a gamble and win on a Duc, until Yamaha and HRC catch up. He can then retire for all I care, but I still don't think Dovi is a good #1 rider. Perturbed Andres can have 1 more year to recover from his pension of falling like my 90 year old granny.

Well, I think we can agree that is would be great to have an alien---any alien---on a Duc that doesn't suck, which appears to be the case now.  They just need the alien.  And I agree with you, Dovi is none.

Ianonne is close. I suspect if he had been on a yamaha this year we would be saying that

Couldn't agree more! 

Question is; when his shoulder issue is taken care of, can he hang with the aliens on the Duc? 

I think he has the ability, he just needs the ride.  Come on Ducati!  Give him a bike to ride!!!

I think the bike's pretty good....

I'm wondering if Dovi and his crew have gone down a blind alley on setup.
Dovi's not a crasher by any means, but he's been doing a lot of it lately.

If the bike does not fit the riding style he's been developing his whole career, then what can you do? How does Iannone ride that bike that much better?

Dunno how Iannone is doing it.

Dovi finished ahead of him in 4 out of the first 5 races this year, yet has only beat him once in the 9 races since then.

That's why I was wondering if they were going a wrong direction on setup.

Iannone has been hurt for the whole season, right? Maybe his shoulder was much worse or he's managed the pain better in the latter part of the season.

I suspect you're right -- one thing I picked up in the article is that Dovi is one of the best in the field under braking, but admits that his mid-corner speed isn't all that great. My guess is that the bike's biggest current weakness dovetails with Dovi's greatest strength, and that it's both messing with his rhythm and confidence, and his crew is coming up with increasingly desperate solutions that are making things worse.

Iannone style isn't as dependent on late, deep braking to make good time - and, ironically, the shoulder injury may be making him LESS hard on the brakes and more focused on smooth, Jorge Lorenzo-style corner speed. I dunno.

That may be the difference.  Dovi's been riding for a while and has a motogp riding style.  Iannone is a motogp blank slate.  I hope the Duc doesn't ruin Iannone. 

He got hurt just before LeMans, round 5.
And thereafter, a fairly solid podium threat.

Perhaps that's the key, whatever a bum shoulder does to his riding, makes the Duc work better.

If they can get the thing to stop the way Dovi likes, it'd be a good combination with the rocketship motor.

Dovi has claimed he has a problem under braking that is not allowed him to ride the way he wants.

Andrea Dovizioso: “Let’s say that I am pleased and not pleased at the same time. With the race pace that I had, I think I managed to bring home the best possible result, but this doesn’t make me happy. For sure we have to work to improve the bike, because I am unable to brake and ride the way I want, and as a result I am not as fast as I would like to be. If I look at today’s race however, considering that I was starting from thirteenth on the grid, finishing fifth is a good result.”

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/09/29/dovizioso-i-am-pleased-and-not-pleased/185823 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/09/29/dovizioso-i-am-pleased-and-not-pleased/185823)

I presume it's boiling it down to stability under braking. I presume that the Honda would be considered (at least last year's chassis) as the best braking.

That seems to be what gets sacrificed to improve grip when on the side of the tire.

More lateral flex in the chassis gives better corner grip, but allows the front wheel to wander around when they've got it on the nose in braking.

So the Yamaha has the most lateral flex and it's why they have to maintain corner speed instead of hard braking and accelerating out of the corner?

Which is why the frameless did so horribly and needed all that grunt. Also why 888 is touted by many racers as best handly sbk compared to other duc sbk.

I think the way that Dovi hasnt adapted to the bike is why he's not an alien. All the aliens seemed to have issues with their bikes but then adapted their riding style to the bike eventually. Dovi seems to be stuck in his personal style of riding and that's just not meshing with the bike.

Pretty sure an two aliens have been on the bike...

Stoner was successful until the other manufacturers caught up and they changed the bike...Rossi was not. Then Dall'Igna came along and made the bike better.

...but...

the thing is...'difficult' to say the least.

Any time a rider has to change his riding style to fit a bike is a bad situation. Dovi is not an alien because he doesn't have the talent. It's nothing to be ashamed of since in the last decade only 5 guys can really be considered an alien. We will see next year if another crop comes up.

I don't know about the first part. The Yamaha is currently the best bike on the grid, and both Rossi and JLo have had to change their riding styles to get the most out of it. Particularly Rossi. I think riders continually change their styles to suit the bike...at least the successful ones.

Agreed on Dovi though. Iannone is proving to have more talent IMO, although still not quite an alien. Close though.