I was riding home and my 2007 S4R died mid ride. No gauges, no head light, no taillight, and only my front blinkers both lit solid. So far I haven't done much to diagnosis but I have a few questions.
I started looking at fuses first and found a blow 15A fuse in the #3 spot. Owners manual and workshop manual say this is the lights. Replaced it, bike is still dead. Checked the Main Fuse and it is fine. Is the main fuse supposed to be a 30A or 40A? Owners manual says 30A, workshop manual says 40A BUT in the wiring diagram shows 30A. So yeah I am confused. Also not all my fuses are the same they say they should be in the owners manual.
Also on the fusebox the owners manual says there are 7 fuses, workshop manual says 7 spots but 6 fuses. Oh joy what to believe.
#3 is definitely lights. I checked all the fuses and disconnected my HID headlight. Once connected it blows that fuse. I'm guessing that system is toast. Not too worried, I'm changing to a new headlight set up soon.
This didn't fix my other big problem though . With key turned I have no gauges, left turn signal is solid (I did have it on when it died), right signal is on but dim, fuel pump will prime and nothing else will work. Did I fry something? What can I check next?
check the relays
Has the bike gotten wet lately?
Quote from: Speeddog on October 27, 2015, 09:55:45 AM
Has the bike gotten wet lately?
Yes, but thought I dried it good. Where should I check?
Likely there's water in the instrument cluster.
Open it up, dry it out, reassemble.
Pray/sacrifice small farm animal/summon whatever spiritual assistance you think might help.
See if it'll start and run and work properly.
I was washing the lower part of the bike. Regardless I took my gauges off and tried to take then apart. I have done this numerous times on my old S2R with no problem. I cannot for the life of me get the center cover off the front. The screw is out, but it feels like it's almost glued on.
Check ALL the fuses, don't just look, test them. Main fuse should be 40 amps. What is the immobilizer light doing? Does it crank? Fuel pump come on?
Quote from: howie on October 28, 2015, 11:03:13 AM
Check ALL the fuses, don't just look, test them. Main fuse should be 40 amps. What is the immobilizer light doing? Does it crank? Fuel pump come on?
You're positive on the 40A? I tested all the fuses. Replaced the lights 15A fuse. It blew when I reconnected my HID lights.
Immobilizer is not lit, nothing on the gauges are. No crank.. Fuel pump doess prime.
Maybe not. Since the bikes went 3 phase that fuse has been 40 amps. The owner's manual does state 30 amps twice, which makes no sense to me since it is part of a 520 watt charging system, which exceeds 30 amps. I don't have access to the shop manual for your bike. What is in the holder now? Fuse blows when the HID light is installed, does not when disconnected you have a problem in the ballast or wiring someplace between the connector and bulb.
Relays click when you turn the key on? How is the battery?
As per REPAIR MANUAL, albeit 2006 S4Rs with Testatretta engine:
Fuses
Regulator 40 A
Injection (pump injector coils) 20 A
Key on ECU, instrument panel, contactor, lambda and brake light 10 A
Engine Electronic Control Unit 5 A
Side light, high beam and low beam headlight 15 A
Passing light, horn and brake light 15 A
Instrument panel 5 A
Gauges where bone dry.
I have a 30A fuse that is not blown. Not saying that is the correct fuse, just saying it's intact.
The three relays by the main fuse test good.
Are you still getting odd blinker behavior?
The blinkers are controlled by circuitry in the gauges.
Here is a picture of the rectifier plugs. Don't look too bad but oddly brown.
(http://www.mikemo.org/bikes/Plugs.jpg)
Found a fuel line leak so I'll have to put some stuff back together. :x I'll check the blinkers again in a few.
(http://www.mikemo.org/bikes/S4RTapart.jpg)
So with the my headlight set up disconnected (something wrong with it, no point in blowing more fuses).
Gauges plugged in
Fuel pump disconnected
Regulator/rectifier connected or disconnected (did both, didn't make a difference)
This is what my gauges look like. Left turn signal still lit solid.
Hitting the starter does nothing.
(http://www.mikemo.org/bikes/S4RTgauges.jpg)
Did they sweep to that position and then stop there?
After seeing that connector it is possible you ran the battery down. Hard to believe they kept using that cheesy connector. Though you probably have an instrument problem, low battery can make electronics go wonky. Charge and load test battery, repair (or at least clean up that connector) and see what happens. Worth a try.
Quote from: Speeddog on October 31, 2015, 10:39:08 PMDid they sweep to that position and then stop there?
No sweep, I moved the needles when I took it apart. There is no movement on the needles. No back light or info on the displays either. I didn't look at the front of the circuit board when I took it apart but maybe I should. I didn't want to move remove the needles if I didn't have to.
As for battery I have a Shorai and charged it after the incident with their specific charger.
Old HID headlight is removed. Wiring looks good around the front. I'll check the front of the gauge circuit board tonight.
Any fuses to check besides the fusebox and the main fuse?
Any relays to check besides the three by the battery?
No other fuses besides the box and the main.
No other relays.
I suspect that your instrument cluster is FUBAR.
Found a broken varistor on my board. Soldered the broken lead back and nothing changed. Ordered a new one to change it out in case it shorted out.
Changed out the varistor and problem still exists. Going to go through the wiring harness now and trace everything. [bang] There is a chip on the board that is getting extremely hot. Looking it up it is a Low Dropout Voltage Regulator. Not sure if that is just because my turn signal is staying on all the time or my board is just getting too much power. Time to hunt down these gremlins.
Another option is a flash to get rid of the immobilizer and a used instrument cluster.
Quote from: howie on November 08, 2015, 10:28:29 AM
Another option is a flash to get rid of the immobilizer and a used instrument cluster.
So if I switch out gauges I have to flash the ECU and get rid of the immobilizer?
Quote from: Heath on November 10, 2015, 12:55:11 PM
So if I switch out gauges I have to flash the ECU and get rid of the immobilizer?
Yes, unless you buy virgin gauges.
heath, have you tried connecting to the ECU and checking for codes?
Quote from: bagodoosh on November 11, 2015, 07:27:28 AM
heath, have you tried connecting to the ECU and checking for codes?
No, I don't have the equipment to do that. Trying to solve myself before taking it to my mechanic.
On a site note I did test my regulator/rectifier doing a forward and reverse bias test and it failed. Although that will not fix my problem seeing as the bike won't start even when it's not plugged in like it should.
Can I hook up known working gauges to determine if mine are the problem without flashing the ECU? I know the bike won't start but will I at least see backlight and a gauge sweep so I know mine are bad?
heath, where are you located?
maybe this can help
http://technoresearch.com/index.php/products/for-single-user/alaris# (http://technoresearch.com/index.php/products/for-single-user/alaris#)
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on November 13, 2015, 01:54:10 PM
maybe this can help
http://technoresearch.com/index.php/products/for-single-user/alaris# (http://technoresearch.com/index.php/products/for-single-user/alaris#)
Not listed for Monster...SBK version?
Quote from: ducpainter on November 13, 2015, 02:25:55 PM
Not listed for Monster...SBK version?
5AM/2 ECU is what he needs/has to diagnose . . . 848 1098 1198 will do . . . basically if it has a 5AM/2 ECU it will work . . . SW doesnt care about bike but about ECU . . . An "old" Centurion S for 5AM/2 would also work
. . .
Heath, contact ca-cycleworks and ask wither Candice or Chria if they have an Centurion S for 5AM/2
I got the centurion for my s4rs last year to calibrate a new tps. So you can get them.
Centurion S is now called Alaris
The last 5 posts have made me go ??? :o ??? So hooking up to a diagnosis software and looking at the ECU will tell me a fault code and if the gauges are fried? My wife isn't working right now so I am trying to save money where I can. I have stuff for sale but seems everyone is hibernating already.
I have googled and read more threads than I can count. I have not found anyone with the same bike symptoms as me. I sent an email off to SOS Diagnosis to see if this is something in their area that they could fix and am still waiting for a response.
Not crazy about getting rid of my immobilizer. I always liked that sense of security. Seems like getting used gauges and flashing the ECU is the cheapest way to fix this right now.
IMO, about all the immobilizer is good for is keeping the rightful owner from operating his/her motorcycle. It just ain't a reliable system and most of the time the stolen bike goes bye bye in a truck, two pipes and four guys. The anti theft light will still blink.
Quote from: Heath on November 14, 2015, 07:09:31 PM
So hooking up to a diagnosis software and looking at the ECU will tell me a fault code and if the gauges are fried?
that was my theory. i am not positive.
if you don't have the equipment already, then probably not worth chasing it. however, it is not expensive:
cable 1, ebay, <$5, 3 Pin to 16 Pin OBD2 Diagnostic Adapter Connector Cable Fiat Lancia Alfa
cable 2, ebay, <$15, OBD2 to USB -or- OBD2 bluetooth / wireless
software, free, guzziDiag
I've apparently been in a closet cause I didn't know free software was available again. Started looking around online reading about guzziDiag makes me excited. Not sure if I saw anything about fault codes.
Tonight I'm going to still hunt around more wiring. SOS got back to me though and said it's free to inspect and give a quote. I just need to send the stuff in. After that could be $200-400 if repairable. $500+ if I need a replacement .. Ugh
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on November 14, 2015, 04:43:40 PM
Centurion S is now called Alaris
Yep and Technoresearch isn't giving me pricing so Cycleworks can sell them. Go direct to Technoresearch.com to purchase. :/
Quote from: CannedIce on December 01, 2015, 03:33:36 PM
Yep and Technoresearch isn't giving me pricing so Cycleworks can sell them. Go direct to Technoresearch.com to purchase. :/
:o :o
My gauges are on their way back from SOS. Something shorted out and fried the processor. They programmed a new board for me. I hope to get the bike up and running this week.
Good news for bad news! I love it when a problem is sorted!
oh good. i'm curious what shorted out. it didn't blow a fuse either, rite?
how much did SOS charge for their service if you don't mind.
Quote from: bagodoosh on December 06, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
oh good. i'm curious what shorted out. it didn't blow a fuse either, rite?
how much did SOS charge for their service if you don't mind.
It's hard to say what was the main problem. The main fuse did not blow. After the bike died I found out the regulator/rectifier failed (won't pass a bench test), the HID Headlights kept blowing fuses, and my gauges were half dead.
I had an HID set up done by Theo. After the mysterious power outage any time I would power up the lights it would blow the fuse for the lights. I removed the HID rats nest, pluged in my new LED headlight with an adapter and no more blown lighting fuse.
SOS charged me $450 but ymmv. Now they quoted me a loose quote of $200 - $550+ depending on damage and if they could repair what I sent them. They couldn't repair my board. They had to swap out boards, programming included, so I think I got a fair price.
So I have it mostly buttoned up. My only concern late last light was when I reconnected the fuel lines. Are CPC quick disconnects supposed to weep a little fuel when you reconnect? I couldn't tell if it was a consistent leak or just because I was reconnecting them.
Monitor the QD's when you turn the key on and the fuel pump cycles.
The O-rings are easily damaged, so it's a good idea to have a couple spares.
I find it quite often on customer bikes.
I use a little WD-40 to assist connection.
Is there a common brick and mortar source for the viton o rings?
A good old-school auto parts place may be able to hook you up.
Perhaps a hydraulic hose shop.
I get 'em here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9464K16 (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9464K16)
Ca-Cycleworks has 'em too.
Good call on the hydraulic hose shop. Called them and they said they were in stock. Went over there, counter guy handed me two and I asked how much. He said on the house :)
.... and they gave me the wrong size grr ...
It's alive!! After replacing the regulator and the gauges she is running.
Quote from: Heath on December 28, 2015, 05:54:16 PM
Good call on the hydraulic hose shop. Called them and they said they were in stock. Went over there, counter guy handed me two and I asked how much. He said on the house :)
.... and they gave me the wrong size grr ...
Did they give you the -011 size?
That's the size I got from McMaster-Carr.
Good to hear that you've got it running!
Quote from: Speeddog on December 30, 2015, 07:41:53 PM
Did they give you the -011 size?
That's the size I got from McMaster-Carr.
Good to hear that you've got it running!
That is what I asked for but I think they gave me -012. I went and bought a cheap Viton O-Ring kit from Harbor Freight. The quality isn't the greatest but it works. The size they gave me matches with a -012. I pulled a -011 out of my new kit and it fit just right. So thank you for that!
OK, cool, just wanted to make sure the -011 was the right critter.