Ducati Monster Forum

I'm wondering who's going to adapt best to the new Michelins. From what I've read so far they are low on front end grip but really high on rear end grip.

I can see that affecting the late brakers aka Rossi/Dovi and forcing them to change their styles again. I could see Jlo doing fine with it because his riding style seems to stress the tires less and I think MM will just ride around the problems. Hell, Honda could have just been one year too early with the 2015 chassis. No rear grip this year but could be fixed with the new tires next year. Not sure how it will affect Dani though... it might help him get better acceleration out the corners which is normally his strong suit.

Might work for Pol and his fast/loose style... not sure about the rest of the field.

Day 1:

1. Marc Marquez   ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 31.551s (Lap 10/47)
2. Andrea Iannone   ITA Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP15) 1m 31.639s +0.088s   (30/61)
3. Dani Pedrosa   ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 31.681s +0.130s   (11/49)
4. Maverick Vinales   ESP Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR)* 1m 31.720s +0.169s   (36/59)
5. Jorge Lorenzo   ESP Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 31.767s +0.216s   (32/41)
6. Cal Crutchlow   GBR LCR Honda (RC213V) 1m 31.911s +0.360s   (8/54)
7. Pol Espargaro   ESP Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 31.937s +0.386s   (10/40)
8. Bradley Smith   GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 31.997s +0.446s   (32/67)
9. Aleix Espargaro   ESP Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR) 1m 32.005s +0.454s   (36/47)
10. Andrea Dovizioso   ITA Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP15) 1m 32.073s +0.522s   (57/66)
11. Scott Redding   GBR Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP15) 1m 32.214s +0.663s   (30/52)
12. Valentino Rossi   ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 32.401s +0.850s   (45/57)
13. Danilo Petrucci   ITA Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP15) 1m 32.442s +0.891s   (46/47)
14. Hector Barbera   ESP Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP14.2) 1m 32.468s +0.917s   (35/38)
15. Jack Miller   AUS Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V) 1m 32.594s +1.043s   (33/47)
16. Tito Rabat   ESP Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V)* 1m 32.673s +1.122s   (82/84)
17. Stefan Bradl   GER Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP) 1m 32.721s +1.170s   (34/46)
18. Loris Baz   FRA Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP14.2) 1m 32.943s +1.392s   (52/53)
19. Yonny Hernandez   COL Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP14.2) 1m 33.046s +1.495s   (31/57)
20. Alvaro Bautista   ESP Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP) 1m 33.061s +1.510s   (66/66)
21. Eugene Laverty   IRL Aspar MotoGP Team (Desmosedici GP14.2) 1m 33.253s +1.702s   (39/46)
22. Takuya Tsuda   JPN Suzuki Test Rider (GSX-RR) 1m 34.591s +3.040s   (54/55)
23. Nobuatsu Aoki   JPN Suzuki Test Rider (GSX-RR) 1m 36.338s +4.787s   (12/24)

Is this test being conducted on Bridgestones or Michellins?

Mark

We also forget that next year everyone will be using the spec ECU. I'm sure all the factories have been capturing data from their open class bikes, but when adding new spec tires, you have a lot of unknowns. I wonder if the factories will be more conservative in the same they design their engines and chassis next year. I doubt we will see many records broken next year.

Yeah, def not expecting any records broken. I wonder how much the Japanese teams were willing to contribute to the ECU development this time around. Ducati pulled a good one by getting that head start on it.

I wonder if Suzuki will make some decent positions next year when everyone is sorting out their bikes. And with all the championship madness I totally forgot about how well Duc has done this year. 2 years ago they were finishing behind the sattelites, now they can fight with the factories. Still need a alien though but I'm hoping Ianonne proves himself to be one once the bike matures some more.

Michelins

Lots of front end crashes; from the Crash.net rundown on day one:

As well as Marquez and Crutchlow, Tuesday saw front end falls for Pol Espargaro, Aleix Espargaro (twice), Eugene Laverty (twice), Maverick Vinales, Alvaro Bautista, Stefan Bradl, Jack Miller, Tito Rabat and Andre Iannone. All riders walked away.
Read more at http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/225049/1/valencia-motogp-test-times-tuesday-final.html#AHdSktu61hul3GRF.99 (http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/225049/1/valencia-motogp-test-times-tuesday-final.html#AHdSktu61hul3GRF.99)

Well, I guess from these we can see who feels more comfortable with the gripier rear tire.

From Emmett's morning post about the times:

"The bikes out are a fair mixture, with Suzuki and Ducati sticking to their own electronics for the first day, while the other manufacturers have switched to the 2016 spec software"

https://motomatters.com/results/2015/11/10/2015_valencia_post_race_test_times_12_no.html

So we won't see a glimpse of the true performance of the Duc/Suz till tomorrow. And the results so far have fitted nicely into what I thought might happen.  ;D

Oh, and Rabat isn't looking bad at all considering this is his first outing on a MotoGP bike. The Moto2 graduates all seemed to have done pretty well.

They will be put in their place soon enough.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/11/10/lorenzo-we-need-to-work-a-bit-more-on-the-front/189915 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/11/10/lorenzo-we-need-to-work-a-bit-more-on-the-front/189915)

Seems like the front tire will be an issue at least for the short term.

I think MM will struggle. He rides the crap out of his front tire, plus he doesn't know anything else since being in MotoGP. That said, he's such a great rider, that he may just adapt.

Rossi should be OK, as should Pedro. They've ridden Michelins before, and been fast. I'm really hoping this is Pedro's year.

JLo, I don't know. I'm inclined to think he is going to struggle since he is so precise.

No idea on the Ducati guys. I hope Iannone does well though. I'd love to see him and MM mix it up as much as possible!

Who knows though...I'm probably completely wrong!  ;D

Iannone seems to be a happy bunny:
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225056/1/iannone-for-me-the-front-tyre-is-perfect.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225056/1/iannone-for-me-the-front-tyre-is-perfect.html)

MM seems to like the rear tire:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTePV9QUYAEuvPk.jpg)

I saw something recently, can't find it now, that confused me on what the tire allocation will be.
Managed to dig up an article that cleared it up, straight from the horse's mouth:
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/08/22/michelin_speaks_piero_taramasso_on_2016_.html (https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/08/22/michelin_speaks_piero_taramasso_on_2016_.html)

Yeah, I have no real worries over MM adapting. He made the jump from Moto2 to MotoGP bikes within a couple of races and if can do that then switching tires should'nt be an issue. He has that Stoner ability of just jumping on anything and making it fast.

Maybe Crazy Joe + Duc + Michelin will be magical like Stoner + Duc + Bridgestone. If there's plenty of rear grip, I could see him riding more like MM and the Honda the last season, get the thing stood up quick, then point and shoot. That takes a stability on the front tire under breaking, though, so who knows...

Also, Ducati loses some fuel capacity next season, right? Or was that this season? May not have quite the top end advantage any more...?

Ducati will be the same. The other factories gain 2 L though. They are all allowed 22L. I expect the Duc will still be one of the faster bikes on the grid, but the gap will be much smaller.

I have all my chips on Iannone winning a few races next year!

All four aliens identified the new Spec ICU as a bigger adaptation issue than the tires:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225051/1/rossi-marquez-2016-ecu-step-back-in-time.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225051/1/rossi-marquez-2016-ecu-step-back-in-time.html)

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225052/1/lorenzo-new-ecu-poses-stiff-challenge.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225052/1/lorenzo-new-ecu-poses-stiff-challenge.html)

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225055/1/pedrosa-there-is-a-lot-of-work-to-do.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/225055/1/pedrosa-there-is-a-lot-of-work-to-do.html)

Something I read led me to believe that today Ducati factory bikes ran the new Michelin rubber, but the 2015 ECU on the bikes, which they will be testing tomorrow... But I can't find it now. Redding ran the 2016 tires and new ECU on the Pramac Ducati, and was pretty positive about the experience.

I just hope that the new ECU completely screws up Jorghey for the next 10 years.

I posted the link and quote earlier in this thread about Duc/Suzuki not running the new ecu till tomorrow.

From Emmett's morning post about the times:

"The bikes out are a fair mixture, with Suzuki and Ducati sticking to their own electronics for the first day, while the other manufacturers have switched to the 2016 spec software"

https://motomatters.com/results/2015/11/10/2015_valencia_post_race_test_times_12_no.html (https://motomatters.com/results/2015/11/10/2015_valencia_post_race_test_times_12_no.html)

Morning session test times:

Pos   No   Rider   Bike   Time   Diff   Prev
1   26   Dani Pedrosa   Honda RC213V   1:31.180       
2   41   Aleix Espargaro   Suzuki GSX-RR   1:31.212   0.032   0.032
3   93   Marc Márquez   Honda RC213V   1:31.494   0.314   0.282
4   99   Jorge Lorenzo   Yamaha M1   1:31.527   0.347   0.033
5   35   Cal Crutchlow   Honda RC213V   1:31.553   0.373   0.026
6   25   Maverick Viñales   Suzuki GSX-RR   1:31.647   0.467   0.094
7   44   Pol Espargaro   Yamaha M1   1:31.773   0.593   0.126
8   29   Andrea Iannone   Ducati GP15   1:31.820   0.640   0.047
9   38   Bradley Smith   Yamaha M1   1:31.969   0.789   0.149
10   45   Scott Redding   Ducati GP15   1:32.004   0.824   0.035
11   43   Jack Miller   Honda RC213V   1:32.143   0.963   0.139
12   9   Danilo Petrucci   Ducati GP15   1:32.294   1.114   0.151
13   46   Valentino Rossi   Yamaha M1   1:32.334   1.154   0.040
14   4   Andrea Dovizioso   Ducati GP15   1:32.341   1.161   0.007
15   53   Tito Rabat   Honda RC213V   1:32.462   1.282   0.121
16   76   Loris Baz   Ducati GP14.2   1:32.503   1.323   0.041
17   68   Yonny Hernandez   Ducati GP14.2   1:32.510   1.330   0.007
18   8   Hector Barbera   Ducati GP14.2   1:32.752   1.572   0.242
19   6   Stefan Bradl   Aprilia RS-GP   1:32.761   1.581   0.009
20   19   Alvaro Bautista   Aprilia RS-GP   1:32.847   1.667   0.086
21   50   Eugene Laverty   Ducati GP14.2   1:33.056   1.876   0.209
22   51   Michele Pirro   Ducati GP15   1:33.568   2.388   0.512
23   12   Nobu Aoki   Suzuki GSX-RR   1:37.031   5.851   3.463

Final Day 2 times:

Pos   No   Rider   Bike   Time   Diff   Prev
1   93   Marc Márquez   Honda RC213V   1:31.060       
2   25   Maverick Viñales   Suzuki GSX-RR   1:31.163   0.103   0.103
3   26   Dani Pedrosa   Honda RC213V   1:31.180   0.120   0.017
4   41   Aleix Espargaro   Suzuki GSX-RR   1:31.212   0.152   0.032
5   99   Jorge Lorenzo   Yamaha M1   1:31.282   0.222   0.070
6   35   Cal Crutchlow   Honda RC213V   1:31.494   0.434   0.212
7   46   Valentino Rossi   Yamaha M1   1:31.498   0.438   0.004
8   44   Pol Espargaro   Yamaha M1   1:31.619   0.559   0.121
9   29   Andrea Iannone   Ducati GP15   1:31.619   0.559   0.000
10   38   Bradley Smith   Yamaha M1   1:31.694   0.634   0.075
11   9   Danilo Petrucci   Ducati GP15   1:31.717   0.657   0.023
12   76   Loris Baz   Ducati GP14.2   1:31.796   0.736   0.079
13   45   Scott Redding   Ducati GP15   1:31.901   0.841   0.105
14   8   Hector Barbera   Ducati GP14.2   1:31.937   0.877   0.036
15   4   Andrea Dovizioso   Ducati GP15   1:31.967   0.907   0.030
16   43   Jack Miller   Honda RC213V   1:32.100   1.040   0.133
17   50   Eugene Laverty   Ducati GP14.2   1:32.377   1.317   0.277
18   53   Tito Rabat   Honda RC213V   1:32.402   1.342   0.025
19   6   Stefan Bradl   Aprilia RS-GP   1:32.492   1.432   0.090
20   68   Yonny Hernandez   Ducati GP14.2   1:32.510   1.450   0.018
21   19   Alvaro Bautista   Aprilia RS-GP   1:32.847   1.787   0.337
22   51   Michele Pirro   Ducati GP15   1:33.568   2.508   0.721
23   22   Takuya Tsuda   Suzuki GSX-RR   1:33.797   2.737   0.229
24   63   Mike Di Meglio   Aprilia RS-GP   1:34.372   3.312   0.575
25   12   Nobu Aoki   Suzuki GSX-RR   1:37.031   5.971   2.659

Wow, either the Suk really works well with the new tires and electronics and maverick just pulled a scorching lap out of nowhere.

The Ducs seem "just a bit" faster than on Sunday and the Suks are "flying"

Yeah, I stopped at Maverick, but Aleix also put down an excellent lap. I'm sure that both Yamaha and Honda will work out the kinks, but it's great to see that Suzuki is at least trying to improve significantly.

IMO Aleix is a "more conservative" than Mavewrick

My boy  [thumbsup]

I don't think the Suzukis were running the 2016 electronics.

How bout the Ducs?

Factory Honda, Yamaha, Ducati using 2016 electronics.

Suzuki and satellites on 2015 electronics.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/11/11/2015_valencia_post_race_day_2_round_up_n.html

Kinda like ...

la la la la la la...

if I deny it it didn't happen?

 ???

To an extent, HRC were saved by the revelation that Casey Stoner is to join Ducati as a test rider for 2016. Normally, the loss of their superstar test rider would be a PR body blow for Honda, but now, with the media spotlight still on Valentino Rossi's allegations that Marc Márquez had helped Jorge Lorenzo, and neither Honda nor Yamaha happy about the situation, they were happy with the distraction. The media spotlight is easy to entice towards pastures new, and Casey Stoner coming back to Ducati is exactly the kind of story the media love. Even Ducati helped play their part, Ducati Sporting Director Paolo Ciabatti coming to the media center to issue such a vague and non-specific denial that he might just as well have admitted it. In their press conference, Honda also spoke about it as if it had already happened, but without officially confirming it. After weeks of three names hogging the limelight, it was nice to talk about something else for a change.

Perspective Nick.

Great news.
They gotta give him a wildcard for the Island.

Agreed  ;D

Testing results is looking forward.

However i do like the distraction.

For 2 days we got a glimpse of the future without the craziness of the last few weeks. Good couple of days if you're a Ducati fan. Did anyone notice Baz? He's right there with Petrux.

Nor did they debut heir seamless gearbox

Suzuki didnt try the 2016 ECU because it seems that it's going to be upgrade for them compared to the ECU they are using now:

"For the Suzukis, that was not such a problem. The new electronics were likely to be an improvement on their own electronics, both Maverick Viñales and Aleix Espargaro said, so missing out now was not such a problem."

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/11/11/2015_valencia_post_race_day_2_round_up_n.html

I'm surprised that a factory effort would concede that the spec ECU was superior to their own setup. But I sort of agree with their thinking of not testing the ECU... I mean, what they need to be competitive isn't going to be changed too much with electronics. I see the electronics as the final honing of the blade vs what they need now.

so, they holding out? not showing all the nuts?

I think Suzuki is doing the smart thing.

The Scientific Method, change one thing at a time, that way you have a decent chance of figuring out WTF is going on.

Look at Honda.
New electronics, new motor, new chassis, new tires.
Pedrosa basically says they can't tell which end is up.

you're right, but, since Ducati was already using the spec ECU . . .

My confusion was in what part of the article was the denial.
Yes, agreed.

I'm not sure where you're going....

AFAIK, Suzuki was using the open class software & ECU in 2015.
I may be wrong.

since Ducati had being using the spec ECU this year . . I thought they could be better in this standings . . . have a little advantage . . .

They only used the ECU in the open bikes. Both factory and Pramac used their own ECU, which means that the GP15s have not used them. Now, I'm sure that all the 2016 bikes have been developed using the spec ECU, so the test riders are used to it by now, but the regular riders have to get used to not being able to code around every detail. They're going to need to learn how to actually race a bike and not a computer.

If Suzuki was using the open ECU then it make a lot of sense to not bothering testing it till later. And puts into perspective why they said that the 2016 ECU would be a upgrade.

Jack Miller

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5757/23000316891_a831ca1fa3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/B3sCTM)

Are you sure that isn't Edwards??!!!

That's just........WOW.

Mark

that'll buff right out

I'm sure the entire Marc VDS team was impressed.

ouch

Lots of front end let goes.....
I think from day 1 report he was having too much fun. Up until then...