Ducati Monster Forum

I'm rolling some cheap shinko's on my 450 supermoto and want to get into something that will be a nice track tire that doesn't require warmers.

Any thoughts on that?  The bike weighs 265 pounds idling on the freight scale at the train yard.  I weigh an easy 230-240 with gear on.

I have not yet adopted the sliding rear style of riding.  Just lots of lean with either the foot out or knee down.

Front is normal sized as I recall, rear is a 150.

 [popcorn]

   Did you need a DOT tire to ride on the street as well or something strictly for track?  For a street legal tire, the Dunlop Q3 is highly regarded.   For a track slick, lots of racers on the west coast have switched over to Metzeler (branch of Pirelli) Racetec in the K1 compound; Gage McAllister and Joey Pascarella to name a couple.  Performance and life are said to be excellent and locals have been swearing by them.  22-25psi HOT for the small guys, maybe higher with more weight.  I can post a chart once I'm on my computer.   Haven't ridden them so I can't say how they come up to temp without warmers.   Dunlop slicks have put the fear in me when cold but great off warmers or once up to temp.  Michelin is a great tire and very manageable without warmers but cost more.   Bridgestones have better pricing but I didn't get along with them.  Many people ran them for contingency and noted that bike set up was crucial for getting the most out of them (should go without saying)...
   Note: I haven't "tracked" the Q3 but it is what they use at Socal Supermoto School.   I have ridden Supermoto on Q2s and was very impressed with how confidently you could over-ride that tire.  Has grip through the whole heat range, feels extremely planted, with a distinct chatter when pushed too hard that is very easy to manage.  A tire like this might/might not produce your best ever lap time, but as a skills and confidence builder, it may be worth trying.  Pretty cheap too. 

   Also, all of the above mentioned "slicks" are referring to each manufacturers supermoto specific tire.   Usually a softer carcass/compound/construction to address lighter motorcycles and different weight distribution. 

I'll check out the Q's, thanks

Any Supermoto race tyres from Michelin, etc? Maybe DOT one's that might warm up sans tyre warmers or even DOT Supersport race tyres

   Yes!  I've edited my above post to clarify that the "slicks" mentioned were each manufacturers supermoto race specific tire.   They usually have a softer carcass/compound/construction to address lighter bikes and different weight distribution.  Michelin is still in the supermoto game and have even accommodated the newer 16" wheel size.   16", 16.5", and 17" are being used up front.   Tires usually retain similar overall diameter but the smaller rim size allows more aggressive tire profile and cornering contact patch.   I haven't tried any of the Michelin compounds from the last couple years but liked their 29A Pilot supermoto front, with or without warmers.   
   If by DOT supersport race tire you mean Dunlop GP/GPA 211, the Ntec rubber has always made me nervous when cold but love them at temp on big bikes.  Might just be me.   Tires are kind of a personal thing. Add to that brand allegiance and it easily becomes a Ford vs Chevy thing.   Grip, feel, and confidence is what I'm after and we all perceive that differently.
   Koko64, are you looking for tires for Hypermotard?  A local guy that rides his at the supermoto track has been on the hunt for new rubber.  Apparently, the 5" rim and swingarm clearance has limited his choices.  Bridgestone bt003 was recommended but are discontinued.  Next recommendation was the Dunlop D209GP.  No confirmation on how/if they fit.
http://stores.racetireservice.com/dunlop-d209gp-160-60-rx-17-uk/ (http://stores.racetireservice.com/dunlop-d209gp-160-60-rx-17-uk/)   
   If for the Ducati, I would check with fellow Hyper riders for recommendations.  Considering the weight of the bike, what I know does not apply...


   

I was thinking for ML but would run Pirelli SBK Pro tyres with warmers for my Hyper while I run Pirelli SBK on the Gixxer.

I'd run a Michelin Power 2ct if they make your size.

https://youtu.be/alYYU4mTc-g

I looked but didn't find...

Looked again just now... There they are at revzilla. $235 for the pair.

Are the 2ct's old tech?  Seems like they've had these out a while.

I was able to find a 120/60. I have a 120/70 on the front now.

A 160 on the rear would be a negative. The chain self clearances the left side of the 150 as it is ;D


Jebus. Talk about punishing a tire [laugh]

What about the Pirelli Corsa/Supercorsa range dot track tyres? They are also narrower a tyre for a given size compared to Dunlops and Michelins if that helps.

Supercorsa SC. Track/DOT tyres come in 120/70 17" and 150 17" in different compounds. Minimal tread pattern but should help warm up. You could go softer compounds without warmers  and see if that works or a soft front medium rear.

I'm not opposed to them by any means, but all my hard track riding *has* been on Michelin Power Race tires and I just sort of grew a liking

I spent most of my time racing on Dunlops but at my slow track day pace nowdays, have found the Pirellis easy to adjust to. Just be careful not to be caught out with tyre pressures. The old days of generic pressures are gone and mfr specific pressures catch people out. My Pirelli SBK Race tyres need more air than Dunlop NTec slicks with heavier side walls for example.

I run tubes so that would likely change things as well.

Was checking out Michelin's track tyres. The DOT tyres look promising but there were no sizes available on the site at present. I did see two versions of Supermoto tyres, so maybe one type might suit no warmers better.

The sumo tires I saw from Michelin seemed sized for 16" wheels and I'm on 17"

Link?

I'll be right back.. :)

Oz and US Michelin sites have no 150 rears :P. Couldn't find anything under 160 on this side of the world either. I found 17" tyres but no 150's.
Only luck I had was with Pirelli's. I'd check the US Pirelli site.

Pirelli Supercorsa SC. Race compounds with a bit of tread. 120/70/17 and 150/60/17.
All I can find. There was another type of Supercorsa too worth checking, but I don't know the details.

   A bit curious about your 150 rear requirement.   Are you running an inner chain block/guide on the swingarm ? 

http://toxicmotoracing.com/shop/toxic-moto-specialty-parts/65-toxic-moto-chain-block.html (http://toxicmotoracing.com/shop/toxic-moto-specialty-parts/65-toxic-moto-chain-block.html)

   On my YZ450 I run a 5" rim with 165/55/17 tire and have zero chain slap.   Most of us run some sort of inner guide without having to dish the wheel.  Others just let the chain carve a pretty pattern into the tire and rim as if it were a badge of honor. 
   If your rear rim is narrower, I understand that a 160+ tire would have a pinched profile which you may want to avoid. 
   Also, might want to check the tire options in the link above to get some ideas.

It's a totally stock 450exc swingarm with a warp 9 wheel. No dish. No guide.

Well, the stock chain guard is on there. There's also this shark fin sort of block on the underside. I've been thinking of removing it because it seems to cause a ton of drag.

The chain doesn't carve a pattern in the tire. It just pulls off chunks in a random pattern. I run chains loose.

Does that guide you posted bend the chain around the tire?  The pics aren't great so it's not clear

First thing, I would advise against eliminating the lower chain guide.  Not only does it insure sprocket engagement with a properly tensioned chain (which is seemingly quite loose), but it also serves as a sharkfin in keeping hands and feet away from a pinch point.  OEM chain guides are usually one of the first things to swap out on an MX bike, especially ones made of aluminum that will end your day or strand you when hit.  TM Designworks is the universal gold standard for replacement and wear like iron and are slick as snot.

As far as the upper chain guide, that is more supermoto specific.   Not sure what year your EXC is but some people have added the SMR upper guide ($8) from the KTM catalog.  Google Image search will give you some ideas and examples.

https://www.google.com/search?q=supermoto+chain+guide&espv=2&biw=1107&bih=590&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFtMbK28_NAhVBXWMKHV2WAlkQ_AUIBygC (https://www.google.com/search?q=supermoto+chain+guide&espv=2&biw=1107&bih=590&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFtMbK28_NAhVBXWMKHV2WAlkQ_AUIBygC)

My set-up never required me to "push" the chain away from the tire and stray from the actual chain line.  The upper chain is under tension during acceleration and may strain a guide that was out of line.  Much of the chain rub occurs under decel when the lower chain is tight and the slack has moved to the top...  Older, worn chains have more lateral play and O-ring chains tend to be wider, both exaggerating the issue.

Another factor is that each tire has a different "actual" size, apart from the "label" size.  This clip was taken from thumpertalk:

I have a 5inch supermoto rear rim and have slight chain clearance problems with a conti road attack 160/60 tyre on my DR-Zed. As every tyre manufacturer seems to interpret 160mm diferrently... I found this list in a ktm forum, and added my tyres actual width to it. this will be a usefull resource for anyone with similar issues. feel free to add to the list..

5" rim
michelin pilot power 160/60 is 169 mm wide
bridgestone battlax rain 165/62 is 160 mm wide
pirelli supercorsa 160/60 is 166 mm wide
Avon pro extreme 160/60 is 169mm wide
Avon Distanzia 160/60 is 167mm wide
Koncorde 160/60 is 163mm wide
Dunlop KR108 165/55 slick is 157mm wide
rennsports 160/60 is 161mm
maxiss road legal slick 160/60 is 158mm
Conti SM 160/60 is 158mm
Conti road attack 160/60 is 164mm wide
Pirelli Diablo 160/60 is 162mm

The list was compiled in 2011 and includes the 165 Dunlop KR108 that I ran, showing that it is actually 157mm where as another manufacturers 160 measures at 169mm.   Looks like you've got some homework to do...

One thing to consider if you ever dish a wheel away from the chain is the exhaust can.  Even with zero dish, many of us need to space the exhaust away from the tire but it usually rubs a bit anyways on big compressions.

If you haven't already checked, supermotojunkie.com and thumpertalk.com should have more specific details regarding your bike, just be willing to sift through the nonsense.  And I hope that my posts have been helpful, I would hate to be contributing to the nonsense.

Pirelli SuperCorsa 150/60-17 on a 4.25 rim measures 145mm wide.

http://supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?145216-Actual-Tire-Width (http://supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?145216-Actual-Tire-Width)!-DOT-and-Race-Slick

Super great info!

I have some thinking to do...

Have you considered the Dunlop Alpha?
http://stores.racetireservice.com/ninja-250r/ (http://stores.racetireservice.com/ninja-250r/)
Those are 150 size

I believe that is the spec tire for MotoAmerica's KTM390 Cup.   Form the people that I know, I hear it is not an especially grippy tire and is not designed for a 5" rim.   Just hearsay though.

I have zero ties with Toxic Moto but they are based out of Utah and have 60 and 70 profile fronts in stock, and both 150 and 160 width rears as well.

FRONT http://toxicmotoracing.com/shop/street-tires/246-michelin-pilot-power-2ct-front.html (http://toxicmotoracing.com/shop/street-tires/246-michelin-pilot-power-2ct-front.html)

REAR http://toxicmotoracing.com/shop/street-tires/245-michelin-pilot-power-2ct-rear.html (http://toxicmotoracing.com/shop/street-tires/245-michelin-pilot-power-2ct-rear.html)

For Michelin Supermoto tires (race slicks) many of us used this guy/distributer on ebay.  Motorace Powersports out of Massachusetts ,   ebay vendor name is:  moto_race     
Always a great experience with them. 

  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Michelin-Super-Moto-Motard-Slick-12-60-17-120-70-17-29B-SOFT-Front-Tire-NEW-/182036759363?hash=item2a623c8343:g:1sMAAOSw3ydVlXpJ&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Michelin-Super-Moto-Motard-Slick-12-60-17-120-70-17-29B-SOFT-Front-Tire-NEW-/182036759363?hash=item2a623c8343:g:1sMAAOSw3ydVlXpJ&vxp=mtr)

moto-race is awesome. [thumbsup]

Check their ebay store for deals on closeouts. I'm running older generation slicks on my 853.

Yep!   Their closeouts definitely helped my budget.  Miss the days of being able to get a 3-pack of 16.5 fronts for $150 shipped to the door.   They weren't fresh out of the molds but after the first heat cycle, they were as good as anything else.
 [beer]

Sto and Dave are good peeps!

Check out Dunlop Alpha tyres in 120/150 sizes.

The good alphas in those sizes really only go Japan and Aus IIRC these days - they are the go-to for production racing for the historics, to an extent. I don't even think they go to the UK anymore.

Supercorsas, treaded but SC compounds, in 110/150 were aaaaamazing on the ex's RGV once we swapped out the 18" rear to a 17" (vj21). They're pretty much the only better thing compared to the alphas though.

Anyone have any experience with Dunlop Q3's?

They make a 160 that I'd consider taking a jack plane to the edge on the chain side or just letting the chain groove it.

No FHE, but reports are they're sticky with poor durability.

I ran Q2's as track bike tires and they were excellent.  Got 6 track days out of them.  The first 5 with no noticeable drop off in performance.  I reckon the Q3's are better.

6 track days is like 600 miles :o

That's all I get out of a Michelin race tire in the rear.

This was with tire warmers too.  On day six the tech questioned the condition and it was a wet to dry to wet day.  I was half spooked by the tech's analysis and the weather and had a few moments during the day that made me decide to swap them out.  I figure $250-300 is cheap insurance and means one less thing to worry about.  May have been able to squeeze another day out of them but not worth wadding my baby.

I never got over 5K out of a set of quality "street" tires when I rode on the street so doesn't seem to extreme for the more aggressive usage.

A 160 is a negative. Turns out my wheel is 4.25 and not 5" wide.

Gotta stay with a 150.

I use the Dunlop Alpha 150 on my Ninja 300, good grip and decent lifespan

I'll take a look at those.

Right now I'm eyeing the Conti attack 2 (or 3) tire. They have a supermoto and sport bike version. Not sure what the difference is.

I'm running a Conti attack on my 950smr and they kicked ass in the twisties.

I'll go for what koko64 said. We went from alphas to Supercorsa SCs in 150s for an RGV250 and they were amazing. The supermotard boys love them too.

Just make sure you get SCs, not the SPs or whatever are the roadier of the options. SC1 front SC2 rear probably the best compound wise to start out with.

They are perhaps the opposite of Michelin race tyres, in that they are a little more talkative, but its the sort of bike that'll walk around anyway.

I'll check em out [thumbsup]