Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: koko64 on June 28, 2016, 06:24:34 PM

Title: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on June 28, 2016, 06:24:34 PM
 While billet alloy flywheels for IE bikes need to be excellent quality to be safe from stripping the splines, and I trust Nichols engineering, any other sources you trust besides machining down the stocker? SSR make a billet stainless flywheel for EFI bikes that looks like it should be strong enough. I have seen their alloy flywheels for splined shaft motors but I have heard of some brands stripping at that connection point on the shaft.
Any insights?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on June 28, 2016, 06:30:13 PM
SSR is the one that caused my wngine to be kaput, albeit in aluminium
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on June 28, 2016, 06:33:45 PM
Thanks mate. I'd heard of that too. Bikeboy mentions it but doesn't say brand except for Ducati Performance.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on June 28, 2016, 06:42:39 PM
sadly those are no longer in production, DP
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: silas on June 29, 2016, 02:11:52 PM

I have prob 1000 miles on my Yoyodyne alum flywheel. Love it, No problems- still has stock single nut over it. It was a very tight fit onto the crank. In fact, I had to tap it all the way on w/ a mallet onto a 2x4 as cushion. In that process of tapping it on, the thin washer behind the starter gear slipped outta position. Once together it made a metal dragging sound and would not run. Tail betw. my legs, a friend helped me truck it up to Racing Sport Services in Braselton Ga for Chris "Hippie" to fix right. He said it's a common mistake on re-installing flywheels.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on June 29, 2016, 02:33:14 PM
The DP flywheel on my old Superlight looked like a YoYodyne unit. No issue as it was  a carby flywheel that bolts on. .  Did they ever supply Ducati or was it an Italian company?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on June 29, 2016, 02:57:48 PM
I might work mine to have it ligthened . . . or a Nichol's  . .  have an insider looking for a DP original NIB
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on June 29, 2016, 03:48:32 PM
I would pay extra for Nichols quality. If their flywheels are anything like their clutch baskets, then that's what I'd do.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on June 29, 2016, 06:35:36 PM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darkmonster620/shares/E1iq0m (https://www.flickr.com/photos/darkmonster620/shares/E1iq0m)

SSR Al flywheel after splines were shaven, need to click link to see 4 pics
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on June 29, 2016, 07:32:49 PM
 [bang]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on June 29, 2016, 08:03:39 PM
Yup, somehow some shavings got into cylinder and scratched cyl wall
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Düb Lüv on June 29, 2016, 08:42:15 PM
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on June 29, 2016, 06:35:36 PM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darkmonster620/shares/E1iq0m (https://www.flickr.com/photos/darkmonster620/shares/E1iq0m)

SSR Al flywheel after splines were shaven, need to click link to see 4 pics

Those pictures persuaded me to just lighten the stocker flywheel. Had it done on my project bike and on my 900ssie. Perfect balance of lightness and low speed temper.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: herm on June 30, 2016, 02:18:05 PM
Do this...

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ilzTpVhQPJY/T9pKVrIlkGI/AAAAAAAACjs/CuIhc5LnIfk/s720/FLYWHEEL.JPG)

What you see here is two stock flywheels, before and after. Approx 2 pounds removed, and a polished work of art too!

Contact board member Monsterlover. He's the man!
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: EEL on June 30, 2016, 04:29:39 PM
Quote from: koko64 on June 29, 2016, 03:48:32 PM
I would pay extra for Nichols quality. If their flywheels are anything like their clutch baskets, then that's what I'd do.

Its nice to have Nichols HQ 5 minutes from where I work.. Things become so much easier.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on July 01, 2016, 03:45:23 AM
Quote from: herm on June 30, 2016, 02:18:05 PM
Do this...

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ilzTpVhQPJY/T9pKVrIlkGI/AAAAAAAACjs/CuIhc5LnIfk/s720/FLYWHEEL.JPG)

What you see here is two stock flywheels, before and after. Approx 2 pounds removed, and a polished work of art too!

Contact board member Monsterlover. He's the man!

[thumbsup]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on July 01, 2016, 04:01:56 AM
herm's route is the route I will follow . . .
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: greenmonster on July 01, 2016, 07:20:15 AM
Kämna worked fine on both M900 & 907IE
for thousands of miles. Aluminum lIRC.
ALWAYS clean threads, check washers behind
and correct Loctite & torque = no problems.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on July 21, 2016, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: herm on June 30, 2016, 02:18:05 PM
Do this...

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ilzTpVhQPJY/T9pKVrIlkGI/AAAAAAAACjs/CuIhc5LnIfk/s720/FLYWHEEL.JPG)

What you see here is two stock flywheels, before and after. Approx 2 pounds removed, and a polished work of art too!

Contact board member Monsterlover. He's the man!

Hey!  I remember doing that!

2011?

Thanks for the kind words.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: herm on July 21, 2016, 08:45:52 PM
Quote from: Monsterlover on July 21, 2016, 08:32:04 PM
Hey!  I remember doing that!

2011?

Thanks for the kind words.

2011....2014..? Who knows.

It was many wheelies ago... [Dolph]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on July 21, 2016, 10:12:05 PM
[thumbsup]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on July 22, 2016, 08:39:22 AM
Unless you are trying for the absolute minimum weight The lightened steel wins every time. I have seen about every brand of aluminum fail at one time and if done in steel you will never lose the splines. So for me from a reliability standpoint steel should be 100% as long as you install it correctly.

Of the aluminum I do feel the Nichols are as good as it gets but some times they are too light for me. I use the yoyodyne because it is about the same weight as the lightened steel if I need an aluminum but my preference is almost always lightened steel.

I did just have an aluminum one  balanced and it was out quite a bit so keep that in mind as well. Every one is different in what they are looking for weight wise so keep that in mind I have some who like the st flywheels that are about 6lbs and last winter I built a vintage racer with no flywheel at all so to each his own.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: ducpainter on July 22, 2016, 08:47:04 AM
How did the ignition trigger?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on July 22, 2016, 10:40:01 AM
Off the layshaft Pulley on the right side.
You may see the bike at Grattan this year it is Paul's TT1/NCR bike
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: ducpainter on July 22, 2016, 11:28:47 AM
Quote from: clubhousemotorsports on July 22, 2016, 10:40:01 AM
Off the layshaft Pulley on the right side.
You may see the bike at Grattan this year it is Paul's TT1/NCR bike
Interesting.

Paul H?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on July 22, 2016, 01:13:22 PM
The infamous
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on July 24, 2016, 05:13:07 AM
Making sure we dont compare apples to oranges there are the bolt on carbie flywheels verses the spline flywheels. It seems the former in alloy form are not at risk like the alloy spline version. MPL make a lightened steel spline version if you want to keep your stocker. I saw a stainless spline version by SSR too, anyone know about these?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on July 26, 2016, 01:23:16 PM
I have not run across them but for me it is a non-issue. it is easier to get a machinist like monsterlover to turn down what you have and the reliability is 100% while cost is about 1/2 of aftermarket.

Unless you are going for the maximum weight loss in which Nichols seems to be the one.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Düb Lüv on July 29, 2016, 11:35:12 AM
There's a DP flywheel on eBay here in America.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/191931110545 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/191931110545)
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on July 29, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
it doesn't look to be a "dp lightened"  . . . looks very much like my OEM std one . .
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: NAKID on July 29, 2016, 12:35:15 PM
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on July 29, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
it doesn't look to be a "dp lightened"  . . . looks very much like my OEM std one . .

It also doesn't look "new, opened box". It looks "used, but half ass attempt at cleaning".
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on July 29, 2016, 12:49:00 PM
that too . . .
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on July 29, 2016, 04:46:20 PM
IIRC, the DP flywheels were alloy replicas of the OEM steel versions. The DP carbed single phase bolt on flywheel looked identical to the alloy Yoyodyne flywheel, don't know who made them for Ducati. Could the ebay flywheel be just an alloy in the oem dimensions? Anyway, since all the stuff that has come out regarding alloy spline flywheels, I would only run light steel splined flywheel or try a Nichols.

Speaking of preferences, my '92 Superlight had a DP/Yoyo flywheel at about 600gm+ and my '95 900 Monster had a machined stocker sliced down to 900gm. Both felt good on those old crank 900's. Me mate who runs the Superlight nowdays did say that he preferred the feel of the Monster flywheel at 900gm, which he said was smoother. I prefer his Superlight, which feels smooth and civilized compared to my Hyper Evo.. Then again my Hyper Evo has everything lightened at the factory and I'm used to that, but geez they're a bugger in the wet. Let's just say you need throttle control, clutch control and you better get your low end tuning right.

Also, iirc, Bikeboy mentioned trouble with the DP alloy splined flywheels on his site. MPL do make sturdy stuff from what I hear and they sell a light steel version of the splined flywheel.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on August 22, 2016, 12:53:48 AM
(http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/tonykokonis/20160817_121858_zpsvpeurkke.jpg)

Before.

(http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/tonykokonis/20160817_121922_zpsdggidgt8.jpg)

After.
From 1.900kg to 0.900kg.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on August 22, 2016, 01:02:00 AM
(http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/tonykokonis/20160817_121817_zpsrtbdkrdc.jpg)

(http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/tonykokonis/20160817_121833_zpsthrlceog.jpg)

1 kilo off. A mate not only removed the heavy rear section, but sculpted it down in sections off the sides and the inner areas. It gave a nice level of response but still smoother than the alloy versions I have tried.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on August 24, 2016, 08:48:51 AM
If I did another modified carbed 900 I would like to go all out testing a Nichols light weight flywheel and try to smooth the bottom end response with an adjustable Ignitech ignition and careful carb tuning.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Speeddog on August 24, 2016, 09:05:00 AM
The FCR/hi-comp/nichols flywheel 900SS motor I did a while back really needed the Ignitech.

I initially retarded the pickups with the stock Kokusan boxes, and the idle was ugly.
Pickups in normal position with the Ignitech handling the full advance was much nicer.
And the gradual advance made it friendlier too.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on August 24, 2016, 09:49:03 AM
Ah I remember that one now. I tuned a 944 with FCR39s, DP/Yoyo flywheel and Ignitech and got that one pretty smooth, but never with the lighter Nichols, so good to know. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on August 31, 2016, 02:26:04 PM
Found some pics of parts I lightened up way back when.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears009.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears009.jpg.html)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears008.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears008.jpg.html)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears007.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears007.jpg.html)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears006.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears006.jpg.html)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears004.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears004.jpg.html)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears002.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears002.jpg.html)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears001.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears001.jpg.html)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Gears010.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/900rider/media/Gears010.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on August 31, 2016, 03:09:38 PM
Nice work. Must have spun up well. [evil]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on August 31, 2016, 03:25:21 PM
She zinged pretty good.

Till it ate a piston :)
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: junior varsity on August 31, 2016, 06:43:28 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: DarkMonster620 on August 31, 2016, 07:46:10 PM
In a distant future I might do that to my 620 . . . ;D
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: pepeducat on September 01, 2016, 11:10:14 AM
I did lighten the gears of low engine jet cutting water

clutch side

(http://s14.postimg.org/4vxvpqo6p/IMG_20160218_142852.jpg)

alternator side

(http://s8.postimg.org/6yusppck5/IMG_20160218_162628.jpg)(http://s8.postimg.org/3ta6zhtxx/IMG_20160218_162641.jpg)

(http://s9.postimg.org/b3txy1nn3/IMG_20160218_165007.jpg)
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on September 01, 2016, 11:15:13 AM
Nice
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on September 01, 2016, 04:16:42 PM
 [thumbsup]

MPL, DP Yoyo or Kanma flywheel?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: pepeducat on September 03, 2016, 12:25:44 AM
Kaemna 😉
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: pepeducat on October 28, 2016, 02:51:38 PM
News home made flywheel

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161028/fa564c6c64a734252ac9209a0d6b22bc.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161028/ca0969420c3a5e836c26a3b6557b9877.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161028/b2383210a3969872b42e24110dc5b97d.jpg)
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Pinion on October 28, 2016, 03:07:21 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on August 24, 2016, 09:05:00 AM
The FCR/hi-comp/nichols flywheel 900SS motor I did a while back really needed the Ignitech.

I initially retarded the pickups with the stock Kokusan boxes, and the idle was ugly.
Pickups in normal position with the Ignitech handling the full advance was much nicer.
And the gradual advance made it friendlier too.

Interested in that one, where can i find it here. doing ignitech, lightened fly wheel 49mm FCR stock pistons on my 95 900ss motor.Non track bike, lol
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Speeddog on October 28, 2016, 07:22:46 PM
Quote from: Pinion on October 28, 2016, 03:07:21 PM
Interested in that one, where can i find it here. doing ignitech, lightened fly wheel 49mm FCR stock pistons on my 95 900ss motor.Non track bike, lol

It was a customer's 900SS.

What other info did you want?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Pinion on October 29, 2016, 04:00:57 AM
ignitech settings, my first go around with the unit
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on November 01, 2016, 06:08:39 PM
Quote from: pepeducat on October 28, 2016, 02:51:38 PM
News home made flywheel

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161028/fa564c6c64a734252ac9209a0d6b22bc.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161028/ca0969420c3a5e836c26a3b6557b9877.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161028/b2383210a3969872b42e24110dc5b97d.jpg)


Looks just like the work done to my old M900 flywheel. Almost identical machining work. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Speeddog on November 02, 2016, 11:05:11 AM
Quote from: Pinion on October 29, 2016, 04:00:57 AM
ignitech settings, my first go around with the unit

This is what I used, triggers in nominal position:

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5449/30105020324_ae6d0276a5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MSh6Gy)

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5691/30436920790_e317a811c2_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NnBb9o)

(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5341/30436920530_08084e0ed1_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NnBb4U)
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: pepeducat on November 02, 2016, 03:46:13 PM
Quote from: koko64 on November 01, 2016, 06:08:39 PM

Looks just like the work done to my old M900 flywheel. Almost identical machining work. [thumbsup]

balance after that, as all parts of my engine.

ðŸ'
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: pepeducat on November 02, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
And my ignitech setting

IGNITECH_KEY 80 TCIP4/TCIP4


BIKE 7
0 1 2
1 0 0
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 1 1
1 0 0
1 0 0
1 0 0
1 0 0

1 11 11 11 11
CORR_ADVANCE 0 0 0 0
GEBER_MODE 1
INPUT 0 0 0 0 0
PICKUPS_INTERCHANGE 0
NO_LOBE_CHECK 0
INTERLOCK_INPUT 0
SPARK_BEFORE_LOBE 0
SPECIAL_START 0
SPECIAL_DWELL_START 0
BASE_ADV 3
LIMITER 95
START_LIM 100
PILOT_LIGHT 9000
PILOT_LIGHT_INV_OUT 0
CLUTCH 100 500

TPS 700 3790
RETARD 6
RPM 1 0
DWELL 1 30 100 12 100 9
DUR_DISCHARG 20
ADV_MAPA 0
TPSIAP_SENSOR 0

RPM_ADV 600 1400 2000 2600 3000 3300 4000 8000 9000 10000

ADVANCE 10 13 16 25 28 32 33 33 33 33
10 16 22 31 33 35 35 35 35 35
10 24 35 44 45 45 43 41 41 41
10 19 32 39 45 47 46 43 43 43
10 12 15 25 31 33 32 32 32 31
10 12 16 25 28 30 33 32 32 32
10 12 16 25 28 30 33 31 33 31
10 12 15 25 28 30 32 32 32 32
10 12 15 25 28 30 32 32 32 32
3 13 22 28 31 33 36 37 33 18

SERVO_ENABLE 0
SERVO_PERCENT 0
SERVO_HYSTER 100
SERVO_NO 0
SERVO_RPM 1200 2000 3000 4000 6000 8000 10000 12000 14000 16000
SERVO_MV 2000 2100 2200 2300 2400 2500 2600 2700 2800 2900

TEST_OUT 25 60
NO_READING 0
VERSIONS
HEX
EXE Jun 25 2013 14:07:29

Mon_Calib_Coef
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: teedee brown on November 11, 2016, 07:49:25 PM
Here is the DP light weight fly wheel i got for my S4RS from the ducati shop
Not any issue to install but haven't tried the bike yet

(https://s22.postimg.org/nbihm2931/20160705_141541.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nbihm2931/)

(https://s22.postimg.org/xzm8kwj25/20160705_153928.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xzm8kwj25/)

(https://s22.postimg.org/fy33n3p19/20160705_164505.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fy33n3p19/)
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Speeddog on November 11, 2016, 09:43:37 PM
That's not a flywheel.
That's an adapter to attach the rotor to the crank.

;D
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on November 11, 2016, 09:46:59 PM
 ;D
I have seen that one in the DP catalogue.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 05, 2018, 05:10:16 PM
Snapped up a Nichols single phase alloy flywheel, as I'm concerned stuff like that could be phased out. It's the early light weight Kokusan model and the lightest one available. My M900 has a tunable Ignitech unit and  ported and tuned BDST38 carbs, ( smoother response compared to FCR's), which should help mitigate low speed snatchiness.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on February 05, 2018, 05:43:52 PM
Quote from: koko64 on February 05, 2018, 05:10:16 PM
Snapped up a Nichols single phase alloy flywheel, as I'm concerned stuff like that could be phased out. It's the early light weight Kokusan model and the lightest one available. My M900 has a tunable Ignitech unit and  ported and tuned BDST38 carbs, ( smoother response compared to FCR's), which should help mitigate low speed snatchiness.

I want snatchy. If I don't feel like the bike I'm riding wants to kill me it would be easy to lose respect for it and get hurt ;D
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 05, 2018, 05:50:57 PM
Yep.  [thumbsup] ;D.

A mate of mine (A grader), once told me he likes a harsh mistress in a motorcycle. [evil]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on February 05, 2018, 07:04:13 PM
High risk, high reward!
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: GK on February 06, 2018, 01:39:19 AM
Harsh mistress - not for me, but I do see the attraction! 😉😉
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 06, 2018, 02:27:28 PM
Edit: My comments here are in relation to rough and snatchy low speed operation. From previous experience I think a very light weight flywheel could be a pita at times with FCR's and the stock Kokusan ignition. I believe the CV carbs and tunable Ignitech will mitigate much of the downside. I have tuned a hi comp 944 Supersport with light alloy flywheel, FCR 39's, hot cams and Ignitech to be much smoother than a stock M900/900SS. Careful carb and ignition tuning made all the difference.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Speeddog on February 06, 2018, 04:23:15 PM
The light flywheel hi-comp FCR'd 900SS I did was not a happy camper with retarded pickups and standard boxes.
Really ratty idle.

Regular pickup timing and Ignitech made a *huge* improvement.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 07, 2018, 03:16:04 AM
Kamna have a range of flywheels including carb models in light and extra light versions.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Frank C on February 07, 2018, 07:36:44 AM
The biggest improvement in idle with mine was switching over from the vacuum fuel pump to an electric one.  The change was so pronounced, that one of my neighbors came walking over asking what I did to make it sound so different. 

This on a 97 with a Nichols flywheel, aluminum clutch, FCR's, ie heads and cams, FBF header, dyna coils, and the stock ignition boxes. 
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 07, 2018, 09:33:18 AM
That's interesting. I haven't noticed a difference in idle quality between a carbed 900SS and a carbed M900. I have even switched an early 900SS to a Monster vacuum pump to save a few Watts for it's LiFePo4 battery and didn't pick up a difference in idle quality.  Do you think the vacuum pulse pump causes an erratic idle due to the fuel pulsing into the float bowl at those low revs? Or was it just a bad vacuum pump? I have never compared them side by side for idle quality. I will ask the owner if he has noticed a difference.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Frank C on February 07, 2018, 10:14:12 AM
I'm assuming it was the pulses due to the vacuum pump, since there is no regulator between the pump and the carb inlet.  The Airtex electric pump is rated for the correct flow rate and pressure for FCR's.   

Have had the bike since 2001.  Idle did not change when a vacuum pump started to fail.  Just would notice that the fuel was transferring from the tank to the crank case :(
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Speeddog on February 07, 2018, 10:21:53 AM
Which Airtex pump did you get?
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Frank C on February 07, 2018, 11:13:55 AM
E8016S
30 GPH, 2.5 -4.5 PSI
Currently $35 on Amazon.

I have it mounted under the seat, where the emissions stuff use to be.  From what I read, these pumps like to push vs pull.  I also have heat shield between it and the header just in case. 
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Speeddog on February 07, 2018, 11:35:08 AM
Cool, thx, good info.

If you were getting raw gas into the crankcase, either a leaky diaphragm inside the vacuum pump, or a stuck float on the FCR's, which they're rather infamous for.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Frank C on February 07, 2018, 12:08:49 PM
It was the diaphragm in the vacuum pump.
The sticky FCR float usually resulted in fuel pissing out the side of the bowl.  And always the left carb.  So I stopped storing the monster on its side stand.

But one time, while touring around the Gaspe, both floats got stuck.  The seats and the jets were full of this white, sugar like substance.  I'm assuming it was the additives in Canadian fuel not getting along with low delivery pressure. 

Solved that problem by picking up a ST4s.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: ducpainter on February 07, 2018, 01:16:17 PM
Quote from: Frank C on February 07, 2018, 11:13:55 AM
E8016S
30 GPH, 2.5 -4.5 PSI
Currently $35 on Amazon.

I have it mounted under the seat, where the emissions stuff use to be.  From what I read, these pumps like to push vs pull.  I also have heat shield between it and the header just in case. 
All pumps push better than pull.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 07, 2018, 01:59:22 PM
Quote from: Frank C on February 07, 2018, 12:08:49 PM
It was the diaphragm in the vacuum pump.
The sticky FCR float usually resulted in fuel pissing out the side of the bowl.  And always the left carb.  So I stopped storing the monster on its side stand.

But one time, while touring around the Gaspe, both floats got stuck.  The seats and the jets were full of this white, sugar like substance.  I'm assuming it was the additives in Canadian fuel not getting along with low delivery pressure. 

Solved that problem by picking up a ST4s.

Yep. What cleans injectors at 45 psi clags carbs at 3 psi
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 17, 2018, 05:57:11 PM
Got a Kaemna superlight "evo" flywheel on its way and some spare JE pistons. This one's staying.

The "evo" version flywheel is under 300gms and has one purpose only..
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 21, 2018, 07:17:18 AM
Fitted and tested the Kamna Evo carbed flywheel tonight over a 100km night mountain ride. The improvement in acceleration and roll on response was quite impressive and the angry engine characteristic felt like a smaller capacity Evo motor. Transmission snatch increased, but not as much as expected, I'm guessing due to the tuned Ignitech map being gentler down low. Well tuned CV carbs don't hurt either and the 37.5 pilot jets help smooth things out. I slipped the clutch in tight confines like I did my former HM1100evo. I'm used to it but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
The 900gm machined flywheel I removed was an excellent compromise and quite smooth, but this minimalist alloy flywheel is on a no holds barred mission of acceleration. The motor sounds more aggressive with the sharper rise and fall of revs and it taunts you to ride it accordingly. It will be too much for some and nearly enough for others.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: Monsterlover on February 21, 2018, 08:28:49 AM
[evil]
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: GK on February 21, 2018, 12:03:42 PM
That's the way uh huh, uh huh you like it....
😆
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 21, 2018, 03:51:55 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4750/39513057075_5aaa319454_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23cCKfK)IMG_0960 (https://flic.kr/p/23cCKfK) by Tony Kokonis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482584@N03/), on Flick

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4629/26538436648_d4c2c40d01_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Gr7qCy)IMG_0959 (https://flic.kr/p/Gr7qCy) by Tony Kokonis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482584@N03/), on Flickr

Machined down stocker at 900gm and stocker at 1900gm
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 21, 2018, 03:54:12 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4755/39513072875_4d77964121_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23cCPXa)IMG_0944 (https://flic.kr/p/23cCPXa) by Tony Kokonis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482584@N03/), on Flickr

The flan pan from Kamna [evil] 235mg ish.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 21, 2018, 03:57:57 PM
The more sensible sub 600gm Kamna, DP, Yoyodyne style

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4765/40364787542_a1bc536150_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24uU63N)IMG_0943 (https://flic.kr/p/24uU63N) by Tony Kokonis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482584@N03/), on Flickr


My buddy has the DP version on his 944 Superlight and says its too light. PPffft! Like he can talk; he bought my Hyper Evo. Actually, he was talking about putting a stocker on his SL for a tame bike for when he's too tired to ride the Hyper. I guess I'm considering an Uglystrada for that.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: LowercaseJake on February 22, 2018, 06:11:22 AM
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on June 28, 2016, 06:30:13 PM
SSR is the one that caused my wngine to be kaput, albeit in aluminium

DM620 would you mind going into further detail? How'd it brick your motor? The usual way of shearing loose and causing mayhem behind the stator cover or something else?

Asking for a friend, lol...

I was able to track down what's apparently the last Nichols FW for 98+ carby Ducs.

And DM"s story us one I've seen 1000 anecdotes across the web about. I can't imagine how many angry customers he must have and it's shocking to see that he still sells that thing tbh. It has a horrible reputation.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 22, 2018, 08:43:49 AM
Check out page 1 for DM620's post and link on the damage.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 22, 2018, 09:04:53 AM
Got another ride in today on more open roads with some twisties thrown in. Highway acceleration and corner exits are very impressive. Stretched my new chain, so the next chain will need to be super, deluxe to cope with the stronger power pulses at certain revs.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 23, 2018, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: koko64 on February 21, 2018, 03:57:57 PM
The more sensible sub 600gm Kamna, DP, Yoyodyne style

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4765/40364787542_a1bc536150_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24uU63N)IMG_0943 (https://flic.kr/p/24uU63N) by Tony Kokonis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482584@N03/), on Flickr


I will be testing one of these next and comparing how the bike behaves. About 580 gms.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: LowercaseJake on February 26, 2018, 02:44:09 AM
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on June 29, 2016, 06:35:36 PM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darkmonster620/shares/E1iq0m (https://www.flickr.com/photos/darkmonster620/shares/E1iq0m)

SSR Al flywheel after splines were shaven, need to click link to see 4 pics

I'm surprised it was able to destroy the crank before self sacrifing. Sift aluminum vs steel so hard the the the threads will handle 150ft lbs if torque.

In any case, sorry for your loss. :(. I hope you were able to find a nice engine upgrade to swap to.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: LowercaseJake on February 26, 2018, 02:59:25 AM
Quote from: koko64 on February 21, 2018, 03:54:12 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4755/39513072875_4d77964121_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23cCPXa)IMG_0944 (https://flic.kr/p/23cCPXa) by Tony Kokonis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150482584@N03/), on Flickr

The flan pan from Kamna [evil] 235mg ish.

This looks identical to the Nichols I had on my old 95 900ss. Thing weighed NOTHING, I paired it with a YoYodyne slipper clutch and loved the combination. Plenty of torque to the rear wheel with the proper amount of "slippage" and still a nice amount of engine braking. That's the recipe I'll likely use from here on out.

My Nichols 3 phase with lumps for carby triggers I found was the last brand new one for 98+ in the know civilized world, heh. Much more if a pita to install as the triggers need removed then reset. Still have not gotten around to that with the other distractions going on with fuel and and electricity plumbing but not looking forward to it. I removed both the triggers and the bracket like a dummy and don't see any obvious position for the bracket. I've only just now cut and fit the chain ffs, smdh.

I'm *hoping* this flywheel can travel into the future with me and be installed on newer FI bikes, with the lump being basically a  benign growth.

The TEC stuff from Kaemna looks identical to Nichols and their reputation for quality precedes them, so as long as they keep making em I'm sure we'll all be OK.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: LowercaseJake on February 26, 2018, 03:02:29 AM
Actually I'm going to say it looks a little nicer. I like how the lump is bolted on as opposed to welded. My Nichols had little weld burns from where they TIG'd that lump.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on February 26, 2018, 07:16:29 PM
What gearing you run on the ?

I'm running 15/40 but I will try a 41 when I replace the chain. Will definitely fit the 580gm flywheel as I have had good experiences with that version in a Superlight with the same mods as my Monster. The pie tin will be put aside for a track motor I am planning for a Superlight style supersport I have a spare 944 motor in the corner. I'm planning for the day when I'm too old to track the Gixxer.

The Kamna site is a dangerous place to visit.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: LowercaseJake on February 27, 2018, 07:20:21 PM
Quote from: koko64 on February 26, 2018, 07:16:29 PM
What gearing you run on the ?

I'm running 15/40 but I will try a 41 when I replace the chain. Will definitely fit the 580gm flywheel as I have had good experiences with that version in a Superlight with the same mods as my Monster. The pie tin will be put aside for a track motor I am planning for a Superlight style supersport I have a spare 944 motor in the corner. I'm planning for the day when I'm too old to track the Gixxer.

The Kamna site is a dangerous place to visit.

Yep. They're like Motowheels on steroids. If I'd seen the 1000ds fcr build thread earlier I'd probably be rocking an SS swingarm with that valve cover mount. It would look especially dope with the cutout of the Roadracing tank exposing everything.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on March 01, 2018, 04:09:23 AM
The 580gm alloy flywheel was tested tonight. Pretty much in the Goldilocks zone for me.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: LowercaseJake on March 06, 2018, 11:12:27 PM
Ooh look here, another option for 98+ carby 900's and 750:

https://www.desmo-racing.com/en/aluminium-racing-fly-wheel-kit-ducati-740gr-xml-245_534-3183.html

And for you Desmoquattro guys this seems like an excellent price for a package deal:

https://www.desmo-racing.com/en/aluminium-racing-fly-wheel-kit-ducati-740gr-xml-245_534-3183.html

The /Desmoduo has a "kit" as well, it's exactly 100 euro cheaper.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on March 07, 2018, 01:50:31 PM
Just be wary of alloy spline type flywheels.
Title: Re: Light Flywheels Again.
Post by: koko64 on March 25, 2018, 02:31:33 AM
After changing flywheels back and forth about 5 or 6 times I sacrificed the thrill of sheer acceleration for smoothness and tractability. With the lighter flywheels I was needing a slipper clutch due to my riding style changing with age. Formerly I was a point and shoot rider with the throttle pinned and front wheel aloft on corner exits, but now I ride a smoother corner speed style running momentum through a series of esses in a higher gear and riding the torque curve rather than the higher rev range. I ended up with a full 1.9kg stock flywheel! As I do not want to run a slipper clutch on the street a heavier flywheel suited this purpose. Plenty of testing gave me an honest outcome suited to a change in riding style that has crept up over the years. So I've turned a full circle. My arthritic hands also appreciated the smoothness of the stock flywheel ;).

I would use the pie tin 234gm flywheel for the track and the 580gm and 900+gm flywheels for aggressive street riding or track work. The stocker and machined stocker work well for the street. I played around with gearing and also note the interaction between flywheel weight and carburettor type. CV carbs give a bit more margin in the wet and low traction conditions when lighter flywheels are used. Flatslides give extra response to overcome the initial sluggishness of heavier flywheels, while the extra flywheel weight helps traction with flatslides while on the gas while leaned over. I remember needing to wait to pick the bike up before gassing it hard with a light flywheel/flatslides combination. I know people who have high sided with that combination. Every combination was a trade off. The Kamna 580gm flywheel is great and I really liked it, but I need a slipper clutch to use it.

Gearing options are a preference and 15/41 worked well with the heavier flywheels but I could run as low as a 39 rear sprocket with their smoothness and inertia reducing transmission snatch. I would recommend a 15/41  or more with the lighter wheels if you can't tolerate low speed snatchiness and don't want to manually slip the clutch.
Clearly personal preference and riding style will determine your choice of flywheel.  My riding style and needs have changed over time.
The three other flywheels are not wasted with various other projects and customer needs in the pipeline. I may sell the Gixxer in the future and build a short manifold motor for a Supersport track bike for my sixties and the pie tin may just have a home.