Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Privateer on September 19, 2016, 07:27:50 PM

Title: no start
Post by: Privateer on September 19, 2016, 07:27:50 PM
04 620, 87xxx miles

bike ran fine friday to/from work.  parked over the weekend.

tried to start this morning

1- the clock does something I've never seen where the minutes count up from zero then stop at 1:10am
2- gauges don't sweep
3- odometer and trip both show zero
4- immobilizer light comes on.


after work, same issue.  checked battery and get 13.25v at rest.  key on, drops to 12.98 and then slow drops by .01 every second or two.  same conditions as above with gauges and immobilizer light.

any suggestions?
Title: Re: no start
Post by: DarkMonster620 on September 19, 2016, 07:30:04 PM
how old is the battery?

checked fuses? relays?

ground cables?
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Howie on September 19, 2016, 07:43:21 PM
Battery should be load tested.  Still got that wonky dash?
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on September 20, 2016, 05:44:41 AM
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on September 19, 2016, 07:30:04 PM
how old is the battery?
June 2011 Shorai

Quote from: DarkMonster620 on September 19, 2016, 07:30:04 PM
checked fuses? relays?
fuses are all new except the big fat 40a.  two relays near that also new

Quote from: DarkMonster620 on September 19, 2016, 07:30:04 PM
ground cables?
haven't looked.

Quote from: howie on September 19, 2016, 07:43:21 PM
Battery should be load tested.  Still got that wonky dash?
yes wonky dash.
can like an auto zone/oreily load test a moto battery?  I've had them do a car batt before, they kind of balk any time I mention motorcycle.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Howie on September 20, 2016, 05:53:08 AM
Not a Shorai, AFAIK, only Shorai can do that.  Substitute a known good battery.  It is possible your problem is the wonky dash since it is part of the immobilizer system.  I'm a fan of a "goodby immobilizer" ECU flash.  IMO, it prevents the rightful owner of the motorcycle from riding it a bit too often.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on September 20, 2016, 07:10:59 AM
You are in pairing mode for adding new keys. I will guess (hope) you have a dash button that is stuck in. Check those buttons and make sure you can not pop it out.

If it is not stuck in then the dash is bad internally. Time to get rid of the immobilizer and get a used/aftermarket dash.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: DarkMonster620 on September 20, 2016, 09:55:37 AM
Quote from: howie on September 20, 2016, 05:53:08 AM
~~~  I'm a fan of a "goodby immobilizer" ECU flash.  IMO, it prevents the rightful owner of the motorcycle from riding it a bit too often.
Quote from: clubhousemotorsports on September 20, 2016, 07:10:59 AM
You are in pairing mode for adding new keys. I will guess (hope) you have a dash button that is stuck in. Check those buttons and make sure you can not pop it out.

If it is not stuck in then the dash is bad internally. Time to get rid of the immobilizer and get a used/aftermarket dash.
What they said . . .
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on September 20, 2016, 08:38:58 PM
uhhhh that doesn't seem good.

i pressed both buttons a few times with no change.  They both seemed normal, I'd have to dismantle it again, I suppose, to see if the micro switch below the rubber parts aren't jammed.


but key pairing or bad dash sounds like a shit situation....


this is wearing thin, tbh.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: DarkMonster620 on September 21, 2016, 09:51:12 AM
Easiest way out, reflash for IMMO delete and get DP map . . .

this way, you can ride with NO dash if you want . . . or install one of these:

https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/motoscope-classic-10k-msc-5921.htm (https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/motoscope-classic-10k-msc-5921.htm)

https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/chronoclassic-14k-darkedition-msc-6116.htm (https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/chronoclassic-14k-darkedition-msc-6116.htm)

I prefer RPM over speed, but, jsut in case

https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/motoscope-tiny-speedster-mst-5901.htm (https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/motoscope-tiny-speedster-mst-5901.htm)

https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/motoscope-tiny-mst-5899.htm (https://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/analog-gauges/motoscope-tiny-mst-5899.htm)

or,

https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/acewell-4553-black-speedometer-computer.asp (https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/acewell-4553-black-speedometer-computer.asp)

https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/acewell-1550t-speedometer-computer.asp (https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/acewell-1550t-speedometer-computer.asp)
Title: Re: no start
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on September 21, 2016, 10:53:29 AM
QuoteThey both seemed normal, I'd have to dismantle it again,

So you had it apart before? You might look at the connections near the buttons because the dash thinks you are pushing a button.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on September 26, 2016, 08:21:29 PM
hooked it up with jumper cables to my car batt, key off.  no change.  unhooked, took a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COBOOopnhq0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COBOOopnhq0)

the buttons don't seem to be stuck, they do cycle the display.  left press shows me zero miles, then zero trip.  right press shows time, then temp, then time.

took the clocks out of the shell, but I didn't want to pull it apart more to see what's going on at the buttons and the microswitches themselves.  It didn't seem to want to come apart easily.

I pulled the rubber gasket away from the button area, plugged the dash back in without the shell, and had the same result.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: ducatigirl100 on September 27, 2016, 10:52:47 AM
Have you tried whit another batery ? ... a batery can be dead but it can also be grouded internely creating a short... the strating cicuit prevent the bike to be turn over not to make more  damage........ its my supper complacted  explanation suggestion .... or you just forgot to put the side stand up.... (really.. ;)..just kidding ...)
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on September 27, 2016, 08:46:37 PM
i mean at this point, what am I looking at?  $500 dash and an ecu flash?  ~$800-1000 all told?


not sure if that's smart for a 12 year old bike with 87,000 miles on it.


I wish I wouldn't have ordered all those maint parts from Monsterparts a week before it crapped out.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Howie on September 27, 2016, 11:47:58 PM
Just the flash will take the wonky dash out of the picture as far as starting and running go.  Worth whatever $?  Personal decision.  IMO, part of the decision should be could you replace that bike for that price with another one guaranteed to be better.  Worn out at 87,000 miles?  Last I heard, philb has 255K on his.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: koko64 on September 28, 2016, 07:19:42 PM
I would borrow a good, charged agm battery just to test. You never know.
Any progress?
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on October 01, 2016, 11:56:35 AM
busy week nights keep me from doing much except pick at it.

I was under the impression even with the ecu flash I'd still need to keep the dash connected and hidden under the gas tank or something?

And then somehow get a new dash wired up, which I seem to recall was far from plug and play?



I'll see if I can borrow a battery, I've jumped my bike off a car battery before so I thought that would give it enough juice if the existing shorai was the problem (short of something besides low volts/amps, which all seemed good on my multimeter)
Title: Re: no start
Post by: DarkMonster620 on October 01, 2016, 12:56:19 PM
With ECU reflash you can leave uyiur dash or no dash . . .
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on October 04, 2016, 09:58:16 PM
i searched around, maybe I'm not doing it right - recommendations on shops to do the immobilizer remove?
Title: Re: no start
Post by: koko64 on October 04, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
Pull the ecu and send it to Motowheels. They had a special deal going.
You fill out a form online with your mods snd extras you want.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: DarkMonster620 on October 05, 2016, 05:35:58 AM
Quote from: koko64 on October 04, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
Pull the ecu and send it to Motowheels. They had a special deal going.
You fill out a form online with your mods snd extras you want.
What ^ said, plus they're a sponsor
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on October 08, 2016, 03:04:49 PM
great, thank you, missed that for some reason.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on October 10, 2016, 07:05:58 PM
Quote from: koko64 on October 04, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
Pull the ecu and send it to Motowheels. They had a special deal going.
You fill out a form online with your mods snd extras you want.

thanks.  found it.  $650?  wow.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: DarkMonster620 on October 10, 2016, 07:07:54 PM
let them know you're a DMFer . . .
Title: Re: no start
Post by: d3vi@nt on October 11, 2016, 07:24:15 PM
HSB: http://houstonsuperbikes.com/i-8554194-ducati-ecu-flash.html (http://houstonsuperbikes.com/i-8554194-ducati-ecu-flash.html)

SOS Diagnostics out of Oregon might do it, as well: http://sosdiagnostics.com/programming.html (http://sosdiagnostics.com/programming.html)
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on December 30, 2016, 05:19:17 PM
well after 3 months of no time and sitting in the garage, Finally delivered the bike to Nick today for professional diagnosis and problem solving.

I didnt want to just throw money at it until something worked and my cognitive load is already consumed with other things.


more updates as more develop.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: GK on January 05, 2017, 04:27:22 AM
Progress??
Title: Re: no start
Post by: chipripper on January 05, 2017, 12:05:49 PM
You may be able to DIY a flash. I used ducati diag (no longer available) to do my own DP map and immobilizer disable. There is a thread in the how to section for something similar that lets you disable the immobilizer.

"$650?  wow." <-- is that for a new flashed ECU and you keep your original? I seem to remember it being around $300 to reprogram your existing one.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=67714.0
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on January 12, 2017, 10:09:50 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51f0WVELW5L._SY300_.jpg)

could be in my future.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: koko64 on January 13, 2017, 01:03:16 AM
Nice. Does it fit in the old Monster dash?
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on January 16, 2017, 08:34:01 AM
Quote from: koko64 on January 13, 2017, 01:03:16 AM
Nice. Does it fit in the old Monster dash?

replaces the dash.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Speeddog on February 17, 2017, 09:13:49 AM
The guilty parties have been identified and banished.

Two back rectangular objects at upper center have thoughtlessly split open and released their magic smoke.
And GEX37 at upper right got so angry and hot that it melted the solder on one attachment.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2761/32573810510_b892c516fe_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RCri1A)

ECU immobilizer delete and a good used cluster from an 800SS, and it's back in business.
Title: Re: no start
Post by: Privateer on February 18, 2017, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on February 17, 2017, 09:13:49 AM
The guilty parties have been identified and banished.

ECU immobilizer delete and a good used cluster from an 800SS, and it's back in business.


Demons be gone!


thanks Nick,  light at the end of the tunnel.  now to just catch up on all that deferred maintenance. :\

For others, Nick and I were half-speculating the last time my rectifier failed (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=73631.msg1362408#msg1362408) it over-voltaged the dash.  Just a theory of course.  I suppose it could've just wore out after 12 years.
Hopefully the new mosfet r/r will last.


(http://i.imgur.com/VE0pkHu.jpg)