Title: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 10, 2016, 10:43:45 AM Hey, y'all. I'm looking at 2 bikes that might fall into a more moderate price range for me. Figure both bikes are pretty much stock except for aftermarket exhaust [Termi, Leo V. etc.]. Comparable mileage, probably around the 12K to 20K range.
Early to mid-ish 2000 fuel injected 900 [no S model] or a S2R 800 Any strong performance differences between the 2 bikes? Just checking out the differences between the 2, pluses and minuses, to help clarify which one I might go with. [ Candy is dandy but quicker is slicker! ] Still hoping to see the prices come down a bit. One guy mentioned something about lash springs that might need replacement at 12K on his 2000 M900: per a Ducati tech guy that he had been talking to.... but I don't know much about that. He stated that there hadn't been any problems so why spend the money. ??? Thanks! Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: the_Journeyman on October 10, 2016, 11:01:49 AM The 900 should have a little more grunt low in the revs and has a smoother torque curve. IMO, I would go with the M900, but that is personal preference. The S2R could have better suspension, but it still may need to be adjusted to you. Appearance is different, two pipes on one side for the S2R, and one on each side for the M900
JM Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 10, 2016, 11:26:13 AM Got it. Yeah, I'm kinda liking the more traditional/classic lower hung twin pipes of the 900 over the higher exhaust pipe profile, dual on 1 side, but that's just personal preference. Not a deal breaker.
Thank you! Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: Speeddog on October 10, 2016, 12:29:51 PM 900 will have more age related deterioration.
If both bikes have lived indoors and been taken care of, not much in it. Assuming that both bikes have the original suspension, 900 has better forks, rear shocks are pretty much the same level of meh. 900 will have a steel tank, S2R plastic tank. Aftermarket parts support is better for the S2R. S2R has the immobilizer, 900 does not. Do both bikes have comprehensive maintenance records? Fresh tires, driveline in good condition, valves recently adjusted and cambelts replaced? Brake pads and rotors good? I've had customers come in with 'new to them' bikes that they got a really good deal on. Then, after new tires and driveline and some brake pads and maybe a brake rotor are installed to replace the shagged out stuff, and a full service done to remedy neglected maintenance ...... They've got a bike that's sorted and ready to ride, but the 'good deal' part is gone. Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 10, 2016, 12:57:35 PM Thank you. Yes, I hear that! I've been searching for a Monster that has good maintenance history/records that come with it. Seems kind of rare from what I'm seeing. I'm sure as sh*t am needing to see good tires, brakes, chain, sprockets, brake pads, no noticeable vibration on the braking end of it and a reasonable suspension with no oil leaks before I'd consider buying it. Belts shouldn't be an issue to replace. Recent valve adjustment and fuel filter would be nice to see. I had 22 YEARS worth of records for my old BMW. It was a thick file of almost every receipt, right down to oil and filters, that either I did or had someone else do. I guess I'm weird like that. My '02 Aero has a expanding file since I got it only a year ago!
Let's say there's no paper trail but it's claimed that pretty much all service has been done at a Ducati dealer/service center in a different state. Would a local MN. shop be able to look at the records and tell what all has been done, using the VIN? If I have the VIN, can I call a dealer to get records or is it only done dealer to dealer? Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: ducpainter on October 10, 2016, 01:18:33 PM S2R has a SSS, 900 has a DSS.
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: koko64 on October 10, 2016, 02:20:14 PM In the end it might just come down to the style you prefer and deal with each bikes needs. The 900 has the iconic dry clutch. As long as they aren't absolute lemons they will just need a bit of love which is part of the fun. I think the 2000-2002 M900 (2000-2001 even more so) are the best 900 models and have real tuning potential. The whole Ducati thing usually includes giving the bike a good service when you get it, just to be sure.
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 10, 2016, 02:25:18 PM Sorry, I don't know the difference between a SSS and a DSS.....? :-[
I'm in agreement with you, koko64. Whatever bike I end up with, there'll be some service that'll need to be done to it. I kinda like doing as much service as I'm able to do and getting to know my bike. Hopefully I DON'T pick a lemon. Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: kopfjÀger on October 10, 2016, 02:44:30 PM Sorry, I don't know the difference between a SSS and a DSS.....? :-[ Single Side Swingarm Double Side Swingarm Lots of good information here from Brad, on both engines, with and without mods. http://www.bikeboy.org/performance.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/performance.html) Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 10, 2016, 05:48:41 PM ....right after I responded, I realized what the letters stood for [bang]
Thank you, I'll check out the bikeboy posting! Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 10, 2016, 05:49:53 PM ....what's a immobilizer?
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 10, 2016, 06:23:07 PM ....never mind. I realized what it is. Nice option but not performance related.
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: koko64 on October 10, 2016, 06:26:47 PM Some say they bugger up and leave you stranded.
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: DarkMonster620 on October 10, 2016, 07:00:05 PM Some say ~~~ yes Jeremy . . .Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: koko64 on October 10, 2016, 07:10:46 PM Bollocks! [laugh]
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: Howie on October 10, 2016, 10:27:47 PM Besides visual there is a comfort difference between the SSS and DSS bikes. Which is more comfortable? Depends on your body. SSS has more lean angle (stock). DSS is more luggage friendly.
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 11, 2016, 05:17:18 AM ...."you kids behave yourselves back there. don't MAKE me turn this car around" ;D
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: ducpainter on October 11, 2016, 05:20:44 AM Not to worry...
they're on opposite sides of the car and can't reach each other. ;) Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: koko64 on October 11, 2016, 08:11:19 AM He started it..(whiney voice). ;D Good thing its a wide car.
I reckon the M900 has more relaxed ergos as Howie stated and the more classic looks of the carbed bikes but with the benefit of efi. The earlier efi of the M900 is more open to intervention than say an M1100, but I cant comment on the S2R as I've not played with one. My brothers M900ie came out of tune and with wonky idle, but once correctly tuned was very impressive. Some bargains may occur due to customer frustration with a badly tuned but otherwise sound bike. The dry clutch wears quicker than the S2R wet clutch but is easy to work on and lighten. Looking at your original posts it seems the M900ie fits the bill. I would pay more for one that has been cherished. Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: the_Journeyman on October 11, 2016, 08:48:52 AM I can personally confirm the faster wearing dry clutch (M900) vs the wet clutch (S2R). My dry clutched SS900 (same motor as M900) needed a clutch at 18,000 miles. My M750 has the original clutch at 41,000 miles.
JM Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 11, 2016, 09:00:44 AM ...."okay then, we can stop at Dairy Queen and get you boys a cone" :D
So, it seems that in TRYING to stay within my budget, along with with what I've been learning about Ducati's here, I'm leaning towards the earlier 2000's injected 900. I think I'd be okay with the dry clutch and the more frequent maintenance vs. the S2R What might a guy do to enhance the performance of the stock M900 engine without getting into it too deeply, both financially and mechanically? [I should mention that there are 1 or 2 Ducati sources I can tap for some help outside of this discussion board, so I'm not ENTIRELY on my own, thankfully] How much might I expect to spend on said improvements/upgrades? I've read some things about a few bikes that have a racing chip? or computer upgrade? or EGR [ERG?] upgrade? Are these all kind of the same thing? Expensive? Worth it? Performance air box? How much? Worth it? I've also read about "re-mapping the computer" ? .... is that where the "red key" comes into play? I guess what I'm asking is: are there one or 2 simple and inexpensive mods I can do to help a early 2000 M900ie wake up a little? [assume the bike will already have an aftermarket exhaust upgrade] I'm just curious if there are some things I could do once I get one. Who knows, I might be okay with the bike the way it is?.....just figured I'd tap the collective wisdom here to get some feedback. Thanks! Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: the_Journeyman on October 11, 2016, 09:19:17 AM Improvements is a difficult area.
Well maintained injected M900 with recent tire & belt changes? Outside of suspension there may not be much money to spend for a fun bike. It's really the same for the S2S as well. Maintenance records are important, as the valves having proper clearance aids best performance. Having a dealer change belts can be expensive, so that's to note for either. As far as the remapping, that would mean something like a power commander on an injected M900 or a "reflash" on the S2R. Red key can come into play, but it can also be eliminated some reflashes. There is a Ducati Performance ECU that cleans up the fuel map on later models, but I don't know the specific year that came into play. It was commonly matched with Termignoni mufflers. An injected M900 won't need much wake up, but a freer flowing exhaust and intake with a proper fuel map get get you a few more HP. JM Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: Howie on October 11, 2016, 09:36:29 AM I'm a big EFI fan also. Immobilizer didn't come into play on 2 valve Monsters until 2002. If you buy a later model with an immobilizer that does not not have a red key and a code card you will want to flash the computer to kill the immobilizer, and you might as well, if not already done, DP upgrade. IMO, the immobilizer is more likely to prevent the rightful owner to operate the bike than stop a thief. Being old and halfast my DP flashed M1000, 84 HP at the rear wheel is more than I need.
Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: koko64 on October 11, 2016, 10:03:33 AM For M900ie, open airbox, K&N filter and Power commander. Options like light clutch and dialed cams. More expensive are hi comp pistons and light flywheel. The flywheel is cheap if you fit it.
Really, just a good tune including throttle body synch and tps. There is every chance the bike will come with a PCIII or PCV. As suggested, enjoying a well tuned stocker might be enough. Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: the_Journeyman on October 11, 2016, 10:52:00 AM enjoying a well tuned stocker might be enough. A well tuned M900ie should be a hoot to ride. JM Title: Re: Is there much performance difference between......? Post by: diamonddog-2 on October 11, 2016, 11:30:20 AM It's all I really want.......a Ducati that's a hoot to ride and get an earful of that throaty growl!....and really nice to look at too.
Well, all good things to consider as I try and procure my second bike. I'll keep you all posted. |