simple q - What other 1000 duc bike engine cases are compatible with s2r 1000 engine cases? [popcorn]
[Dolph]
AFAIK: ST4S, S4R, M1000, ST3.
996, 998, 999 will have the same stud spacing for the cylinders, but will not have swingarm bearings in the cases.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 15, 2016, 11:11:54 PM
AFAIK: ST4S, S4R, M1000, ST3.
996, 998, 999 will have the same stud spacing for the cylinders, but will not have swingarm bearings in the cases.
(ha!... knowledgeable fellow ...)
ST4S, S4R, M1000, ST3 are the same as s2r 1k? ok ... this being the case .... so to speak ... inner case only, right? (I understand what your saying about the 996, 998, 999, thanks for that too [bow_down]).
One question leads to another, this is where it gets less simple ....
What years ST4S, S4R, M1000, ST3? (s2r 1k was only made 2006 to 08, M1k 2003-05?)
looking at the inner cases the other day; the liquid cooled engines have hoses attached to the outer cases; so the question is ... where does the liquid run (it must run inside the cylinders; no, so therefore circulated through the cases). Without searching online ... are the ST4S, S4R, M1000, ST3 liquid cooled? Is that the change? The s2r 1000 series engine is the biggest oil cooled, before it goes into liquid cooled?.
[beer]
ST4S, S4R, ST3 are liguid cooled motors, but all of that plumbing is outside of the main cases.
The only liquid inside the main cases is oil, and the passages for that are the same for all 3 engines.
AFAIK S2R1000 and M1000 are exactly the same motor.
I'm pretty sure the M1100 cases would interchange as well, but there may be some annoying details that prevent that.
On the 999 were the bearings in the swing arm like the SSS bikes?
Quote from: Speeddog on December 16, 2016, 10:05:27 AM
ST4S, S4R, ST3 are liquid cooled motors, but all of that plumbing is outside of the main cases. AH!
The only liquid inside the main cases is oil, and the passages for that are the same for all 3 engines.
AFAIK S2R1000 and M1000 are exactly the same motor.
I'm pretty sure the M1100 cases would interchange as well, but there may be some annoying details that prevent that.
[thumbsup]
Ok good this means I can widen my search for cases; but it's the unknown annoying details (to the uninitiated); that worry (us all I guess). Other relevant details appreciated ....
Quote from: ducpainter on December 16, 2016, 10:15:21 AM
On the 999 were the bearings in the swing arm like the SSS bikes?
749/999 had bearings in the swingarm like 748/916/996/998/848/1098/1198/1199.
AFAIK, only SSS that has the bearings in the cases are S2R/S4R/S4Rs/S4Rt.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 16, 2016, 04:59:35 PM
749/999 had bearings in the swingarm like 748/916/996/998/848/1098/1198/1199.
AFAIK, only SSS that has the bearings in the cases are S2R/S4R/S4Rs/S4Rt.
ut-oh (spagettios) did my case pool just get smaller?; :P
so I cann't use ST4S & ST3 cases due to the bearing on the sss? or I sub a different matching swing arm instead of the sss ... if I use ST4S & ST3 cases?
It's a bit confusing, yes.
S2R1000 is a 'large case' motor, so we'll restrict all compatible cases to 'large case' style.
S2R1000 is a 'swingarm bearings in the cases' motor, so we'll restrict all compatible cases to 'swingarm bearings in the cases' style.
S2R1000 is a '996 cylinder stud spacing' motor, so we'll restrict all compatible cases to '996 cylinder stud spacing' style.
So, the only cases that fit those restrictions are ST3, ST4S, S4R, S2R1000, M1000, and possibly M1100.
All 'small case' motors; 350, 400, 500, 600, 620, 650, 695, 696, 750, 800 are 'small case', thus excluded.
All SBK motors are 'swingarm bearings in the swingarm'; so 748, 916, 996, 998, 749, 999, 848, 1098, 1198, 1199, 1299 are excluded.
The only remaining motors are S4, S4R, S4Rs, S4Rt, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST4S, M900, S2R1000, M1000, M1100.
S4, ST2, ST4 and M900 are not '996 stud spacing'.
S4Rs and S4Rt are deep sump, so not compatible as I'm assuming you're keeping S2R1000 exhaust.
S4, S4R, S4Rs, S4Rt, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST4S, M900, S2R1000, M1000, and possibly M1100.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 16, 2016, 09:23:54 PM
It's a bit confusing, yes.
S2R1000 is a 'large case' motor, so we'll restrict all compatible cases to 'large case' style.
S2R1000 is a 'swingarm bearings in the cases' motor, so we'll restrict all compatible cases to 'swingarm bearings in the cases' style.
S2R1000 is a '996 cylinder stud spacing' motor, so we'll restrict all compatible cases to '996 cylinder stud spacing' style.
So, the only cases that fit those restrictions are ST3, ST4S, S4R, S2R1000, M1000, and possibly M1100.
All 'small case' motors; 350, 400, 500, 600, 620, 650, 695, 696, 750, 800 are 'small case', thus excluded.
All SBK motors are 'swingarm bearings in the swingarm'; so 748, 916, 996, 998, 749, 999, 848, 1098, 1198, 1199, 1299 are excluded.
The only remaining motors are S4, S4R, S4Rs, S4Rt, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST4S, M900, S2R1000, M1000, M1100.
S4, ST2, ST4 and M900 are not '996 stud spacing'.
S4Rs and S4Rt are deep sump, so not compatible as I'm assuming you're keeping S2R1000 exhaust.
S4, S4R, S4Rs, S4Rt, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST4S, M900, S2R1000, M1000, and possibly M1100.
omg wow lotsa detail there[bow_down]
yaaa its confusing (wtf!)
thanks (I think)
I'll have to re read er again when Im well rested.
....sweet duc dreams .... to all and to all a good night.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 16, 2016, 09:23:54 PM
It's a bit confusing, yes.
S2R1000 is a '996 cylinder stud spacing' motor, so we'll restrict all compatible cases to '996 cylinder stud spacing' style.
S4, ST2, ST4 and M900 are not '996 stud spacing'.
S4Rs and S4Rt are deep sump, so not compatible as I'm assuming you're keeping S2R1000 exhaust.
S4, S4R, S4Rs, S4Rt, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST4S, M900, S2R1000, M1000, and possibly M1100.
Just looked up s2r 1000 specs; this might be an error or it may not make a difference but one site specs a
992cc engine; is that correct? - sigh -
ok; yepers keep the stock pipes so no deep sump.
Yes, "1000' motor is 992cc, as is ST3.
But it's not an issue, as they're both '996 stud spacing' cases.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 17, 2016, 09:41:53 AM
Yes, "1000' motor is 992cc, as is ST3.
But it's not an issue, as they're both '996 stud spacing' cases.
... ok - thanks! - again -
M1000 usually refers to Monster. MTS1000 or MTS1100 are Multistradas.
Quote from: DuciD03 on January 01, 2017, 10:52:11 PM
M1000 = multistrada right?
what about the other 1000's; like the sports classic and the GT
I mean Monster when I write M.
SportClassic and GT cases are interchangeable with other 1000's, AFAIK.
Quote from: Speeddog on January 01, 2017, 11:05:53 PM
I mean Monster when I write M. that's what I thought - just checking ...
SportClassic and GT cases are interchangeable with other 1000's, AFAIK.
Quote from: koko64 on January 01, 2017, 10:55:46 PM
M1000 usually refers to Monster. MTS1000 or MTS1100 are Multistradas.
add SportClassic and GT to the case search list.
and what abot them "multi-strudles"? MTS1000 look the same / compatible? [popcorn]
... quest for a good s2r 1k case (I see em for sale on flea bay but you have to look close some are damaged)
[Dolph]
MTS have the bearings in the swingarm, so not candidates.
SS1000 will work, as well.
Quote from: Speeddog on January 02, 2017, 09:24:15 AM
MTS have the bearings in the swingarm, so not candidates.
SS1000 will work, as well.
Can one install old s2r 1k bearings in MST case?
ah good ss1000 compatible too ...
Quote from: DuciD03 on January 02, 2017, 10:01:12 AM
Can one install old s2r 1k bearings in MST case?
Would require extensive work, machining, etc. Far too expensive to justify that route.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 16, 2016, 09:23:54 PM
It's a bit confusing, yes.
S4, S4R, S4Rs, S4Rt, ST2, ST3, ST4, ST4S, M900, S2R1000, M1000, and possibly M1100.
... learning somethings about engines ...
ok looking at a S4R 1k engine case; - it looks compatible - but - to double check; comparing cases on line ....
Noticed that there's an oil window in the outer s4r case; but located in different spot on the s2r; and holes on the inner s4r case are a little different than on the s2r in that location; rooting of oil? or is it a mistake in the casting on an s2r case?
( ...and your right about the cooling pluming being to the outside of the inner cases; thus inner case being oil cooled, no coolant on the inner, (to my surprise).
Can you post links or pictures of what you're talking about?
Hi,
Direct exchange engine cases for S2R 1000 2V ds are:
* S2R 1000
* Monster 1000
* 1000 SS
* Sportclassic dry clutch version, early model year.
* Monster 1100 ds
Following models do have wet clutch so they have an oil channel that have to be blocked.
There is a screw behind the front sprocket near the slave cylinder.
* SportClassic wet clutch version, later model year
* GT1000
* Monster 1100 Evo
Following model have correct swingarm, but lack the internal oil feed for the cylinder heads.
So external oil feed for the cylidner heads must be used.
* ST3 dry clutch version, early model year.
Following model have correct swingarm, but lack the internal oil feed for the cylinder heads.
So external oil feed for the cylidner heads must be used. And
do have wet clutch so they have an oil channel that have to be blocked.
There is a screw behind the front sprocket near the slave cylinder.
* ST3 wet clutch version, later model year
* Monster S4R 996 4V
* Super Touring ST4S 996 4V
engine cases seems to be next in line but is for sure not plug&play.
Following do not have correct swingarm desig.
* Hypermotard 1100 ds
* Hypermotard 1100 Evo
* Multistrada 1000
* Multistrada 1100
Quote from: hnracing on January 07, 2017, 05:09:50 AM
Hi,
Direct exchange engine cases for S2R 1000 2V ds are:
* S2R 1000
* Monster 1000
* 1000 SS
* Sportclassic dry clutch version, early model year.
* Monster 1100 ds
Following models do have wet clutch so they have an oil channel that have to be blocked.
There is a screw behind the front sprocket near the slave cylinder.
* SportClassic wet clutch version, later model year
* GT1000
* Monster 1100 Evo
Following model have correct swingarm, but lack the internal oil feed for the cylinder heads.
So external oil feed for the cylidner heads must be used.
* ST3 dry clutch version, early model year.
Following model have correct swingarm, but lack the internal oil feed for the cylinder heads.
So external oil feed for the cylidner heads must be used. And
do have wet clutch so they have an oil channel that have to be blocked.
There is a screw behind the front sprocket near the slave cylinder.
* ST3 wet clutch version, later model year
* Monster S4R 996 4V
* Super Touring ST4S 996 4V
engine cases seems to be next in line but is for sure not plug&play.
Following do not have correct swingarm desig.
* Hypermotard 1100 ds
* Hypermotard 1100 Evo
* Multistrada 1000
* Multistrada 1100
Thank - u sir ! [bow_down]
Well I know some stuff; but at the end of the day other mechaniacs know more. [bow_down]
Im rebuilding this bike to learn stuff (I guess), I like tinkering with ducs, but this is deep detailed info on case variations, and ya, I realise the engine case is more than an engine case its also the central structural part of the bike; and this s2r 1k one having 2 snapped completely off case to frame mounts needs a new case, it is interesting to compare the nuances of duc engine design.
I found an excellent s4r case, good price, but its not plug and play for a s2r. different oil circulation; would have direct fit outer cases ... -sigh-; direct fit s2r cases in good condition would be the ticket -
* S2R 1000
* Monster 1000
* 1000 SS
* Sportclassic dry clutch version, early model year.
* Monster 1100 ds
I did spend some time removing the outer case to take pics and have a good looksy and determined the s4r would be some "macgiuvering" to get it to work 100%.
Still looking; If anyone has a low mileage good condition of the above short list at a good price let me know.
[Dolph]
oh ... and
PS ... how does one? ... "( but lack the internal oil feed for the cylinder heads.)
... So external oil feed for the cylidner heads must be used."?
"PS ... how does one? ... "( but lack the internal oil feed for the cylinder heads.)
... So external oil feed for the cylidner heads must be used."?"
The easiest way is to look how Ducati have done for the ST3.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1dsAAOSwj85YRv~K/s-l1600.jpg)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/D3gAAOSwnHZYRv~q/s-l1600.jpg)
* You can re thread the existing camshaft cover on the LHS. The threads used for camtiming.
* Block the existing oil channel in the head.
* Take oilpressure from the oil pressure sensor or use an engine cover from ST3, 749, 999 that have the
at the front or from the oilcooler.
For the non plug & play casings you must check
* the position of the locating dowels.
* the oil return "openings"
* the diameter for the cylinder skirt.
Quote from: hnracing on January 08, 2017, 02:13:17 AM
"PS ... how does one? ... "( but lack the internal oil feed for the cylinder heads.)
... So external oil feed for the cylidner heads must be used."?"
The easiest way is to look how Ducati have done for the ST3.
* You can re thread the existing camshaft cover on the LHS. The threads used for camtiming.
* Block the existing oil channel in the head.
* Take oilpressure from the oil pressure sensor or use an engine cover from ST3, 749, 999 that have the
at the front or from the oilcooler.
For the non plug & play casings you must check
* the position of the locating dowels.
* the oil return "openings"
* the diameter for the cylinder skirt.
Interesting I've looked at this 3 different times ....ya I can see what ya did; good mec / engineering knowledge to do that; beyond my mec knowledge; its at a risk, when of redesigning an engine and not covering something off so more premature ware or at worst blowing er up. How many miles do you have on her?