so a friend managed to set their 696 on fire in the drive
we are putting new inner timing covers on, noticed there are no timing marks. can some one help me out here. pics would be great
thanks
there should be a notch on the rh cover and both cam gears should have a notch to match the one on the head cover . . . and there should be one on the crankshaft that aligns with the clutch cover
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff68/007wabbit/2aa83fb8.jpg)
(http://www.ducatisuite.com/images/beltchange03.jpg)
new set of covers, no notches, your 2nd pic is old gen monster. this is an 08 696
Does it have notches in the back of the cam pulley and access screws in the back of the cambelt cover shrouds?
If so a 5mm screw/bolt locates the pulley.
On the cam endcap, left sides of the heads, there's a screw that you remove, and a special tool that screws in with a dog-point that engages a slot in the cam.
And another special tool that goes on after you remove the left side crank end cover, and engages the crank or flywheel.
This allegedly holds the cams and the crank in the correct position, with the horizontal cylinder being at TDC fire.
So the same as my 1100. So it's the later set up and not the "middle model" set up?
So just to clarify, there are three eras then?
Early is via timing marks on the pulleys and cases, middle is notches on the pulleys for locating bolts/pins via the back of the belt cover/shrouds and late is locating holes in the cam for locating bolt/pins through the cam cover/cap? Al locate TDC via mark on the case and via the timing window or plug. Early and middle have a pointer lining up with a flywheel mark and late has a pointer lining up with a marked tooth on a timing gear. Correct?
Quote from: Speeddog on December 17, 2016, 10:41:00 PM
On the cam endcap, left sides of the heads, there's a screw that you remove, and a special tool that screws in with a dog-point that engages a slot in the cam.
And another special tool that goes on after you remove the left side crank end cover, and engages the crank or flywheel.
This allegedly holds the cams and the crank in the correct position, with the horizontal cylinder being at TDC fire.
That my understanding at this point as well. Just trying to locate the tools
I got my locating pin/bolts from California Cycleworks. Not sure if they still do 'em. Worth a call to see if there are any left. Some have machined down the end of a long bolt. There was a thread on this I think iirc.
They've taken what was once a straightforward procedure of lining up 3 pairs of marks...
And turned it into an unnecessarily complicated procedure requiring special tools and working on both sides of the bike, with the added bonus of it taking three times as long, and the phenomenal super bonus possibility of leaving a special tool installed and turning the motor, and
really make the beast with two backsing things up.
Quote from: koko64 on December 18, 2016, 04:54:27 PM
So just to clarify, there are three eras then?
Early is via timing marks on the pulleys and cases, middle is notches on the pulleys for locating bolts/pins via the back of the belt cover/shrouds and late is locating holes in the cam for locating bolt/pins through the cam cover/cap? Al locate TDC via mark on the case and via the timing window or plug. Early and middle have a pointer lining up with a flywheel mark and late has a pointer lining up with a marked tooth on a timing gear. Correct?
Correct, other than the 3rd era uses a special tool to index the crank.
One may be able to locate TDC through the timing plug, but I'm not sure if that facility is on a 696.
I'll try to check that tomorrow.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 18, 2016, 08:23:26 PM
They've taken what was once a straightforward procedure of lining up 3 pairs of marks...
And turned it into an unnecessarily complicated procedure requiring special tools and working on both sides of the bike, with the added bonus of it taking three times as long, and the phenomenal super bonus possibility of leaving a special tool installed and turning the motor, and really make the beast with two backsing things up.
<snip>
Indeed. Not unique to Ducati, but an industry trend.
I made "Do Not Start " signs to hang on the bike and remove the key, placing it away from the bike. Flicking the kill switch would at least give another layer of protection. Disconnecting the battery is another thought. The consequences of distraction are too serious.
Hide the battery!
at this point ready to throw in the recycling bin with the rest of the beer cans. can even find a proper cam wheel nut tool to get the new covers on. all mine are too big. I will cal cali cycles after the holidays to check on what they have. Thanks all, and happy holidays. I go back to shop in finish wiring up the RFID on my 95 monster now, easier making wiring harness's then getting this bike fixed. [bang]
(http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y304/tonykokonis/20161223_095945_zpso2etlpfi.jpg)
Hope this helps. It's the CCW tool that fits my 1100. I have no idea if it fits the smaller motors. With your skills you could whip up a few in no time.
yes, i will make one or some, just looking for the socket to remove cam pully.
might have to make some of those too.
All who read this, dont walk away from your bike whilst idling to answer your phone.
Funny how history repeats. I went thru the same frustration a few years ago with the 1100 in comparison to my older S2R 800. They made things overly complicated.
So based on where you're at, I'm going to jump out on a limb and predict your next question/frustration. Once you set the pulleys, how to you set your timing on your crank. You have a notch on the crank pulley that lines up with the case but its so fat you can be off by a few degrees. The older bikes had a sight glass on the flywheel that you could precisely line a small dot too. The newer models dont have this.
Here is your answer.. Again way more complicated than it ever needed to be.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=69898.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=69898.0)
I have all of that info, just looking for the tools to do the job. not my bike, a friends and is burnt up
I have to replace all the inner and outer covers. in order to do so, pullys mus be removed
Ah, the home made castle nut.
Quote from: koko64 on December 28, 2016, 04:51:46 PM
Ah, the home made castle nut.
I've always wondered if one of the Motion pro tools would work..I've never checked the dimensions with the cam but they do come in a couple of sizes.
https://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/category/spanner_nut_sockets/ (https://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/category/spanner_nut_sockets/)
OEM castle nut 'socket':
OD 29.4mm
ID 21.0mm
4 teeth, 3.56mm thick x 5.8mm tall
Hmm. Could you start with this one and shave down the teeth? The Od doesnt matter as much as the ID right???
https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0572 (https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0572)
Its only 24 bucks... That's not horribly bad if it works
With some careful dremel work, I think it would work.
Biggest problem with the castle nuts is they're so short that the socket doesn't get any support.
So you have to exert pure torque on it.
And you've got to hold the pulley too.
HDESA and laser tools on EBay have stuff that's not expensive, and they say it fits.
The short handles on the pulley holding tools are only usable if they can be restrained by the frame or engine case.
The castle nuts are really f'n tight.
HDESA has some really great prices. Good info. [thumbsup]
I've skimmed over the posts in this thread, and I don't recognize most of it ... I had no idea it was this complicated. Maybe I was just lucky when I adjusted valve clearances and installed new belts on my HYM1100 motor last year? Don't remember how I did it, so I suppose I did it as I've always done ....
Ayway, with so much uncertainty, I'd take the opportunity and do a proper cam timimg job. Seems like a good opportunity to correct the notoriously wanky Duc cam timing, and make your own cam timing marks while you're at it. Just to make sure ..... or?
I have used replacement nylock pulley nuts from Vee Two, but I dont know who supplies them nowdays. A used cambelt held with a molewrench helps hold the pulley in place while using the castlenut socket.
This is the OEM socket and pulley holder tool, and the 1/2" breaker bar I use.
It's a barely adequate setup to do the castle nuts freehand.
If you've got the adjustable pulleys, you'll need a tool to grab the outside.
There's 18 and 20 tooth pulleys, so make sure to get the right one.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/305/31840850562_7e4603143e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QvEFy7)
Quote from: MonsterHPD on December 30, 2016, 12:53:21 PM
I've skimmed over the posts in this thread, and I don't recognize most of it ... I had no idea it was this complicated. Maybe I was just lucky when I adjusted valve clearances and installed new belts on my HYM1100 motor last year? Don't remember how I did it, so I suppose I did it as I've always done ....
Ayway, with so much uncertainty, I'd take the opportunity and do a proper cam timimg job. Seems like a good opportunity to correct the notoriously wanky Duc cam timing, and make your own cam timing marks while you're at it. Just to make sure ..... or?
On these models that don't have any marks to use, I'll confirm they're correct using the hashmark on the sidecover and the pin alignment holes in the cam covers.
Then I mark the rear belt covers aligned with the dot on the pulleys.
No harm in doing a proper cam timing job, at all.
Yep this^^^.
A scribe and marking paint for belt and tdc dots. [thumbsup]
The Hedesa tools are earlier models. I had one, and worked good for one motor. Teeth snapped on the 2nd. Ordered a 2nd and was too big for top pulleys. I use and old belt and vise grips on the pulley to hold. Oh tricks.
Have another socket on the way from the brits.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 30, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
This is the OEM socket and pulley holder tool, and the 1/2" breaker bar I use.
It's a barely adequate setup to do the castle nuts freehand.
If you've got the adjustable pulleys, you'll need a tool to grab the outside.
There's 18 and 20 tooth pulleys, so make sure to get the right one.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/305/31840850562_7e4603143e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QvEFy7)
On these models that don't have any marks to use, I'll confirm they're correct using the hashmark on the sidecover and the pin alignment holes in the cam covers.
Then I mark the rear belt covers aligned with the dot on the pulleys.
No harm in doing a proper cam timing job, at all.
I have something similar coming. going to set time and all. Honestly still have to find out if any valve damage was done also. once belts are on going to do compresion test. everything feels smooth, hoping for the best since pulling vert head means tearing the bikee down on this thing. going to make a pin for the cam, once all is set up I will mark new inner covers.
Note to self, a) dont say yes to friends, b) dont buy a 696. lol
ended up making my own out of and old 17mm impact socket. Worked great.
here are some pics of the joy happening here. if your bike is idling, dont answer you phone and walk away
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/69junk/IMG_2240_zpsvrulbtxj.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/69junk/media/IMG_2240_zpsvrulbtxj.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/69junk/IMG_2239_zps1kmf0xo1.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/69junk/media/IMG_2239_zps1kmf0xo1.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/69junk/IMG_2238_zps9wxbg2hd.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/69junk/media/IMG_2238_zps9wxbg2hd.jpg.html)
What exactly caused the fire?
she started it, answered the phone and walked away while running. Came back bike was shut down and smoking
I think she was lucky. scraped most of plastic off, will do comp test to see if vert cylinder valves are ok.
Is there such a thing as a code reader for ducati. getting a yellow Fault light on this 08 696 we are trying to start up after mild fire.
Owners manual has some error code info.
How do i pull the codes
Isnt the yellow light the immobilizer?
dunno
dont have a manual
was to understand that was fault light
Owner's manual can be downloaded at http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do
It tells how to access the error codes and what they mean.
Awsome, thanks speeddog
I would rather have sex with a cactus then work on other peoples bikes. Friends dont let friends be friends
Moving on
Soooo getting the yellow code light, going to menu to check code and try to put in imobolizer over ride code. Code or Error is not an option on the menu, reffered to manual, states (if active) which tells me if there is no option for code on menu, there is no code. So at this point went to OHIO to shoot friend, ( no longer have friend issue)
Still pulling screw drivers out of my own skull. Any input from anyone. [bang]
So, I'm understanding that you're not getting any error codes, just the yellow CEL lite on?
yes
I'd take a look at the wiring for the antenna in the keyswitch shroud.
we couldnt find an issue, but I guess we will tear it apart now. Oh joy
Thanks for your input