Ducati Monster Forum

So I have been absent a bit from the forum, life and other distractions, but still enjoy my motorbike. The '06 flat orange S2R is approaching 35k miles quickly and my mods and plans for the bike are slipping into phase 2. I have plans to build my own exhaust since I don't really like anything on the market, plus I need a project to practice tigging. With that said, i am considering buying a used DS1000 engine, rebuilding & modifying it so I can swap out the 803cc wet-clutch mill currently occupying the frame. I want the dry-clutch jangle and the umph from more CCs. I plan to port-polish, lighten flywheel(not extreme) and possibly bore(I'm just starting to research some mods).
The S2R 800 is a great engine, and has served its purpose as a reliable lump, but I feel she may be down on power a bit. This weekend I did the timing belts, oil change and spark plugs. while the plugs were out I scoped the cylinder(sorry pics are dull and on my other computer ATM). The walls looked good as I can still see the crosshatching and not a lot of carbon build up on the piston, however I noticed a faint line in the horizontal (front) cylinder that looks like the beginning of compression loss. I did not do a compression test yet, but plan to when I get back from my trip next week.
Anyhow, long winded, can someone point me to the history of the DS1000 engine so I can search for certain models and years based on the wet-clutch? I'd take a larger cc engine as long as it is air cooled, but I am not sure if Ducati made an air-cooled lump that I can cram into my bike larger than 1000.

thanks

You can put an 1100 Evo in it, but the computer and harness will not be compatible.

Howie,
Thanks for the reply. I did a little more research and it seems the 1100 is the largest air-cooled Ducati made, but finding a dry clutch may be a bit difficult. Again, I am just starting the search. I also read a while ago that with some tweaking and new coils the 1000DS can be easily swapped into the S2R wiring and frame/swingarm. I may just buy a totalled bike so I have the swing arm also and wiring. Honestly, I may just go standalone ECU for this swap to keep things to a minimum and tunability (I plan to use twin widebands to test and tune).

AFAIK, swingarm is the same across all S*R, other than color.

Microtec has an ECU and 'autotune' WBO2 box (or at least did, last time I looked).

HM1100 engines have the dry clutch, but the swingarm has the bearings, so not bolt-up compatible with your frame.

Thanks man. I think the s'r swing arms are all the same , the issue will be when I have to use a newer m1100 motor.

The 1100 engine fits in an SxR chassis - swingarm included. Check HeMan's thread about the swap. Basically a timing gear from an 848 (and some other bikes), minor exhaust mods and a Power Commander or similar.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=59229.0

Good to know and thanks for the links.

or just dump in a DS1000 with a big bore upgrade. that would give you about the same as an 1100, plus the dry clutch, plus easier everything else.

 [thumbsup]

while the M1100 has some lighter components, the DS1000 is easier to come by and slightly cheaper. I need to research the big bore kit.
Edit....
Scratch that, $3k for a big bore kit? I'm not racing, i'm not sponsered.... But i did find the 1100DS, seems to tick all the boxes.
More to comb

thanks guys

pretty sure I have seen the option discussed around here for significantly less than $3k....

regardless, have fun with the project!

If this continues as a thread to discuss big bore, or other mods it will get moved to either ACC&Mods, or Tech.

AMS has an NCR kit that's north of $3k.
But that's a 102mm bore with dedicated cylinders, needs NCR rods, and cases bored out.
Makes it 1168cc.

They've got 98mm Pistals:
https://amsducati.com/pistal-racing-ducati-1198-s-high-compression-pistons

~$500 or so to get your cylinders bored and replated.

Not sure what the situation would be on head gaskets, they should know.

DucShop has a kit as well:
http://shop.ducshop.com/eshopprod_cat_7585-90520_product_1215544.DS1100_HC_PISTONS.htm

Yep, understood, just 'discussing'  at the moment, gathering information.

Thanks guys for the responses, I'm off to Deals Gap tomorrow (actually I'm going so I can ride the Cherohala Skyway again...more fun) for a few days to flog the 800.

Alright, I'm gonna resurrect this thread for some questions....
As I have been looking around the web, the DS1100 in Monster form is very hard to find. Hypers and Multis are everywhere, but not the monster form. I need the monster engine because the engine cases are wider due to the way the swing arm mounts. With that said, does anyone know if the engine case will swap from a DS1000/1100 to an 800? I wonder how different the 1000 is from the 800, I have no experience having the engines open to compare. If the lower engine cases (inside cases that hold the crank and such) than i could cannibalize the 800 engine to fit a 1100 crank and top end into the S2R i have. Just trying to figure out my options.

thanks
for the help
RB

Would buying my motor, dyno tuned ECU, air intake and exhaust be something you are interested in?  :P

I hardly ride the thing anymore. I went from 1 Street bike to now 3 dirtbikes and a street bike and im about to add another dirt bike!!!

Sell the S2r and buy He Mans S2R Evo

Well thanks for the replies, but I am keeping my S2R, and I’m not ready for this overhaul just yet as I’m about to begin a garage build. So I’m just trying to align my quackers.

My suggestion was to save you from the heart break, pain and trial and error He Man endured to create an absolute beast of a bike. [thumbsup]. His pain is your gain. I'd buy it but Im across the pond.

A pic or two of the beast might entice a purchase!!

No!


 ;D

Thanks for looking out, but I enjoy the process of building my own bike and the knowledge I gain from it. I am considering what it would cost for a salvaged monster with the proper engine. Whatever engine I get i am looking to do a fresh rebuild so i know what I am working with the the start.
And yes Pics of HeMan's bike would help!!

Just get a 1000 engine with the harness and headers (unless you are still planning on doing a custom exhaust as the 1000 needs longer headers). I think you can shave the wider engine cases down to fit. (Someone correct me as I just remember threads on it)

The 800 is a small case and I'm not sure what all can be shoehorned in there as far as cranks etc off the larger engines, and it probably isn't worth the hassle.

The difference between the 1100 and 1000 probably isn't worth the extra cost in my mind.

depends on what the cost is. There are a lot of differences between the motor in terms of liveliness. The 1100 is MUCH better due to the light weight everything. BUT, it comes at a premium cost.

Looking at prices and the 1000DS is almost as much as the 1100DS when you can find them. I'd be happy with a 1000 for sure, but if i can find the 1100...


thorn,
Why do you say the 800 is a small case? What makes it smaller than the 1000? I'm not talking about displacement.

He Man,
Read all your posts on the swap you did, real impressive stuff, your thread is the reason I wanted to source an 1100 for my bike.

Thanks
for all the info guys!!!

800 is a 'small crankcase' motor.

Roughly, all air-cooled Monsters 803cc and less are 'small crankcase'.
Both 5 and 6 speed transmissions were used, not interchangeable with the 5 & 6 speed units from the large crankcase.
Crankcase itself is about 12mm shallower.
Countershaft sprocket is ~8mm closer to the crank.

More info here: http://www.bikeboy.org/duccapacities.html

Major difference among motors both small and large case is the swingarm pivot configuration.

Most are set up with a rotating pivot shaft, and the swingarm pivot bearings in the cases, AFAIK all Monsters are this way (M1200/M821 and other recent stuff *may* be different).

Others are SBK style, with the pivot area narrower, and the bearings are in the swingarm.
These models all have a frame member that attaches directly to the fixed pivot shaft.

Speed, thanks from the info. So even though the S2R came in 800 & 1000 the cases are different. I would think manufacturing costs would drive similar bottom ends across the range.

I see 1000 engines routinely for $1000, the 1100's are at least $1500, but more likely $2000. So from a cost perspective, to me, an 1100 isn't worth it since you also have to buy other items.

I thought the weight savings was only a few pounds and mainly due to the cases being cast lighter.

I don’t see monster  ds1000 engine for under $1k ever, where you lookin? I’m not ruling them out at all,  but I’d like to try to get the 1100.... I have time to wait and search. Will an extra $1k be worth the newer lighter 1100 difference? To me, for the bonkers factor the 1100.... last of the air cooled dry clutch. Plus, He Man did it so I have that road map to give me a leg up(thanks!).
Seriously, I’m more concerned about getting an engine that fits my swingarm.

Small cases started as the Pantah in '80 as a 500, perhaps Ducati figured 800 was far enough.

When i was searching, most of the DS1000 were about $1500, $1000 sounds right for now. the 1100 came in many flavors, there was a DS1100 that ran a short period of time, then there was the single spark 1100 that lived in the monster 1100S (which is where my motor came from). That motor, as you saw in my photos had lightweight cases and gears. I dont know what the total weight difference was, but you aren't really buying these motors for performance, its more about the most fun bang for your buck. If thats the case, consider really if you want to do the swap. I only did it because i had no choice, it was throw the bike in the trash, or replace the motor and keep riding it. The swap was a lot of work in terms of investigating if it were possible. Obviously at the time, I only knew of one other person who did the swap and I could get in contact with him, so I tried to publish as much as I could at the time.

Id like to have a tricked out monster, but my time these days are a premium that I dont want to give up time to wrench on a monster, when I could be riding my KTM  (dirtbike). Hence why I would be okay selling it off. The bike itself is worth $0 without the engine. So I would basically tear out the motor and ECU, and sell off as much as I can, then scrap the rest......then buy a powerful Dual sport like a 690, or a tricked out XL650R....

eitherway, if you have any questions about doing the swap, dont hesitate to contact me. I think i put all the info into that blog, but none the less, ask me and save yourself the trouble of figuring things out the hardway!

Craigslist in SF Bay Area and eBay (although shipping costs kill ebay deals sometimes, some get listed within a couple hour drive).

I check eBay all the time but not CL out west. Thanks. Btw, Fastenal will ship store to store for $150 as long as whatever you ship is strapped to a pallet. So shipping isn’t terrible on an engine if a  will cooperate.