Ducati Monster Forum

Noticed the wires leading into the RHS main fuse were getting warm to touch as mentioned in another thread. Hmmm, I'll check the fuse. It looked fine but I noticed it was a two piece design with the fuse blades pressed into one. Usually the blade might be a bit loose in the plastic cover but the blade halves were loose independent of each other. Wiggle wiggle. With vibration they would wiggle away. I replaced the "good" fuse with a solid looking part from my local auto store. Of course I had already cleaned up earth terminals, ground points, battlery cable connections, etc. I didnt know there were two piece blade fuses, what could possibly go wrong?
All good for about a few months, then last night my headlight brightness went from 55W to 30W to parking light to candle power. Checked it out and the globe connector had melted and you could see the inner corrosion. Oh well nearly 25 years old so on with another H4 connector from an older (but better) VFR loom. Threw in a fancy pants globe I had spare and goodbye candlelight hello bright, white, 21st century headlamp.

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Old OEM shunt Reg has popped. Got hold of new old stock but later style wiring with earth and battery feed straight to the terminals. Would you bypass the Maxi Fuse and go straight to the battery or run through the loom via the fuse to the battery? I like the simplicity of the OEM loom Vs two extra wires to the battery. I also like the extra fuse inclusion in the circuit. Pros and cons?

You want a main fuse.

Thats what I reckon Howie.
There is a smaller main fuse but I like the big charging fuse. I'll go through the loom like I have in the past.

Ended up using a Motolectric reg in original style with old style connectors. Covered this in another thread as I did  my Ignitech popping due to a loose wire arcing out in the Ignitech loom. It happens in threes they say so I should be in the clear for awhile. New reg, check; new headlight wiring and fancy globe, check and new Ignitech, check. [thumbsup].
My head light is surprisingly bright now and my bike runs sooo smooth. [laugh]

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Rick's makes one with MOSFET technology. Uses the stock loom and I'd assume main fuse. I simply soldered 2/3 connectors as one for my old 2 wire 900. Great R/R's.

Chris at CCW strongly recommends high quality shunt style for some reason tho, I trust his advice but that was one area I felt needed modernizing especially with a LiFePO4 battery.

BTW you should try popping in a new led H4 bulb... You'll be amazed. ;)

The OEM Bosch doesn't receive a full, fat 12 volts from Ducati's wiring loom either. I've seen the difference when people added a proper relay, and it was dramatic. I still don't think I could ever go back to an incandescent bulb tho, after experiencing the brilliant power of LED's and the bright white, almost daylight color temperature. They also don't need nearly as much current, hence the big cooling fins they all have to disperse heat from the unnecessary power going to em.

I read somewhere that LiFePO4 batteries like a shunt style regulator as up to 14.5V gets through rather than a more tightly controlled 14V. Not sure if that's true and I've wondered about that.

Higher voltage is better for a LiFePO4.

Thanks Howie, I knew that about LiFePO4 batteries, but wasn't sure if shunt regulators let a little more juice through compared to Mosfet regs.

I'd always assumed the opposite since they're prone to meltdown if overcharged. Then again I can understand it both ways, since LiFePO4 are so sensitive to becoming bricks if undercharged.

I think no matter what you do if you're getting a lithium battery, you get the largest capacity one you can afford.

The last thing I'd spend my money on is a lithium battery.

That's just me.

I'm a curmudgeon...

seriously, the technology isn't worth it IMO. Special chargers, different regulator requirements...poor life...yada yada yada.

Gimme a good old lead acid battery. You can almost see the electrons flowing. ;D

Gotcha.  Read too quickly.  Both work similar since they control voltage by turning current on and off quickly.  The difference is how.  Mosfet transistors are capable of handling higher amperage and run cooler, both a big advantage.  I have no idea why any manufacturer wouldn't use mosfet if they are using an alternator capable of powering more than a headlight, ignition coil and tail light would not spec mosfet.  As far as output voltage goes it is, I believe, the luck of the draw.  IMO, my bigger concern with voltage output at low engine speed.

If I wanted to use a LiFePO4 battery it would be an EarthX,  Built in board for cell balancing and will shut down if the battery voltage gets too low.  Oh, and your battery tender will be fine as long as float is 13.3 volts or above.  There appears to be only one dealer in Australia.  https://earthxbatteries.com

I'll check em out. Some local comp for Shorai. Cheers [thumbsup]

Forgot,  https://earthxbatteries.com/earthx-now-australian-distributor-jetline-aviation

I notice the yellow alternator to regulator wires and the main fuse wires are only luke warm when using a healthy Shorai battery "receptive" (for want of a better term) to showing 14+ V while the bike was running. Those same wires get hot when a weak Shorai battery "unreceptive" to taking more than 13.7V is used. My test involved using two identical Shorai LFX18 batteries and the healthier battery resulted in sitting at about 13.8-14V at idle and 14.3V at higher revs with the headlight on. The healthy battery is the burned shop battery that survived a major bike fire and still cranks hi comp motors. [thumbsup]. The weak battery sat at high 12s at idle and low 13s at revs.

I tested for voltage drop from battery to frame to motor to regulator earth point. All good. It has a new Electrosport single phase reg, the headlight is bright. The difference in heat to the touch of the wires mentioned was substantial between the strong and weak batteries. The headlight is strong with either battery and the only difference is the heat in the aforementioned wires and voltage at the battery terminals while the motor is running. This speaks to me of internal battery resistance in the weak battery that would not take the higher voltage. It's standing voltage was about 13.2V while the strong battery's sitting voltage was about 14.2V.  It appears to mimic the resistance of sulphated lead acid batteries. It is hard to understand the chemical behaviour of LiFePo4 batteries in regard to internal resistance compared to the old technology, but tht's what it looks like.

What do you reckon Howie? Am I on the right track?

Just an update. I tested the weak battery after a restoration routine to check my findings. When I go through the resurrection routine on the weak battery and stretch it back up into the 14+V range, the wires are only luke warm like when using the strong battery. It's as if the equivalent of a lead acid desulphication process for LiFePo4 batteries has reduced the internal resistance, as the running voltages were the same as the strong battery and the wires did not get hot.

That is my finding but I do not have the theoretical framework for explaning the chemical process, just my observations.

Poor life? Maybe in the first couple of iterations, but Shorai now offers a lifetime warranty with their LiFePO4 batteries. And the charger is only ~$85 versus ~$40 for a good tender. Not a huge expense IMO.

That's great to hear, backing the product. How conditional is the warranty?

A buddy of mine (electrical engineer) has suggested that although the weak battery has "come back", it may be too damaged and revert to the lowest denominator over time as far as resting voltage is concerned. We'll see over the next few days as I check it's resting voltage and how it goes under the bike's charging system.

So, other than a 'lifetime warranty', which I rarely trust, what's the advantage?

Imo, only light weight, packaging due to small size, non toxic and low discharge rates (if no parasitic loss). A quality Yuasa AGM is cheaper and more reliable than most LiFePo4 technology available imo. I may try EarthX batteries as they claim to have built in protection against the very things that void warranties.
My Hyper had a Yuasa AGM, rock solid.

Like I said...a Lith battery would be the last thing I'd spend my money on.

Not enough benefit.

Everyone else do what you want...you will anyway. ;D

Also have a Shorai LFX18 out of an MTS1100 I am "bringing back". Emailed the distributor here but have not heard back yet. I think a good test of battery health for the Shorai is testing what the resting voltage settles down to after a few days and whether the Shorai charger senses over discharge and is happy to conduct a quick top up and balance without throwing an alarm code. If the resting charge settles to 14.2-3V and the battery can hold that charge, the battery cranks well and the Shorai specific maintenance unit doesnt throw a fit and does it's thing quickly, and, the battery takes a good 14V off the bikes alternator/reg combination with no symptoms, then the battery is ok. That's a lot of "ifs".

The weak battery out of my M900 came back well to sit at 14.3V and let the Shorai charger do its thing without complaint so I'm hopeful.

This begs the question Howie recently put to me; should we run such batteries without an on board balancing/maintenance system and expect a bikes charging system to balance all the cells?

You created your own mess...

live with it. ;D :-*

I've changed the heading so that some of the stuff learned about these newfangled LiFePo4 batteries is emphasised.

I predict a great thread ahead!

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This new technology is becoming more common (even oem in some cases), so it's the future. It's worth collating member's contributions to develop the forum community's understanding of the technology for maintenance, diagnosis and trouble shooting. :)

Like others have said it's mainly weight and packaging benefits. I think the lifetime warranty is a huge plus. We actually just warrantied one that was overly discharged and wouldn't come back. Totally the customer's fault, but Shorai replaced it anyway.

This is one of the reasons I quit running the Shorai until at least there is some balancing built in.

I ran my Shorai and only over discharged it once. I was able to bring it back with advice from Shoari. I was having other electrical gremlins though so to please my mechanic I went back to a Yurasa and put it on a tender religiously.
Once the technology improves I think I'll switch back. I like the earthx for the balancing board built it.

I've been running a Shorai on my M750 (3-phase) for ~2 1/2 years and 12k miles.
Flattened it a couple times with a headlight switch pilot error.
Recharged with an ordinary charger those times, and otherwise it's been charged by the bike.
No battery tender, but the bike does get ridden at least 3 hours a week.
It's not missed a beat.

Have one that I got brand new, ran it on my S4 for a little while, since then it's been sitting, for 5 years.
Currently it's occasionally used as a 'shop' battery, waiting to be reinstalled on my S4.
Still works fine.

Rick's has a new "Lithium Friendly" VR:

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/OEM-Style-Lithium-Ion-Battery-Compatible-Rec-Reg-14_008

I note that when new and barring no episodes (say under 3  years old), the Shorai can rest at 14+ V, but after 4 or 5 years and especially after a few episodes of being over discharged, they will sit at 13.2-13.4V if they survive. They still crank well at this more nominal level and although it's disconcerting, they are 80-90% charged and still operate well. That last Volt in resting charge is 10-20% off absolutely fully charged whereas 12.9V is getting dangerously low, so it's not a linear scale by any means. It was reassuring to check the Shorai pamphlet after losing 1V.
I have a battery that will always settle at 13.3V no matter what I do to it since it's been badly over discharged by a bad regulator. It starts well every time but is scarred so appears to have lost it's peak capcity.