Ducati Monster Forum

Tried starting the bike and it sounds like it is close to starting, but won't turn over. Even tried going downhill and stsrting in second gear, but was not successful.

* carbs were removed and cleaned
* new fuel lines installed
* manual petock - flow is good
* tank had been removed and compressed air blown through orifices
* new heavy duty battery cables - negative attached to engine; engine sanded and cleaned prior to attaching cable
* open airbox
* almost new spark plugs
* replaced ignition coils (CA Cycleworks exact fit coils)
* battery is less than two years old and charge it at least weekly
* use a second battery to see if there was a problem with the first, but same symptoms

Bike was previously running, but suddenly quit when I was on a tuning run. Heard a pop - fuse blew for LED headlight / tailight.

Had to fix multiple bare wires before headlight would work again.

Fuel doesn't appear to be a problem as I can smell it and also see it when twisting the throttle.

Any suggestions as I'm sure I'm missing something.

How well is it cranking over?  Got spark?  Coils hooked up correctly?

From my perspective, it's close, like 90-95% there. I didn't check spark. How do I go about checking it? I would say yes as they've been nstalled for a few years and the bike ran fine.

Check for spark by removing the plugs, and grounding them and cranking the motor. You can do one at a time. It should be blue.

Did you check all the other fuses?

Check wiring to the kill switch...since you messed with wiring near the headlight?

Grounded against the motor - no spark of any kind/color on either plug.

Is this an ignition coil issue? Something else?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171016/ab69df7fb83b4cb39fee8b35bfca65b7.jpg)

Checked and re-checked fuses, all ok.

Would the kill switch be an issue if when pressing the start button, it attempts to start? Clutch moves, starter relay clicks and air moves out of the spark plug holes.

Carburated Duc's kill the ignition.

Fuelie's kill the fuel.

Check the wiring from the kill switch. If it isn't external, it can be in the harness near where it passes the steering head.

Wiring appears to ok. Cut open the rubber around the wiring and did not see any broken wires. Tightened up a screw on the bottom of 1 ignition coil, but bike still not starting.

Back to the grounding of the spark plug against the engine. I pressed the plug's metal part in the middle against the engine - is that effective? As it appears it is painted/coated (OEM).

It usually is effective unless the engine has really thick paint/powder coating. You could use a jumper wire if you're unsure.

I sanded down one of the fins to bare metal, but still no spark.

Also swapped ignition coils back to OEM, but get same turning over and no start.

When I am inspecting the starter switch and corresponding wires - I have checked the condition and if they're properly connected. Nothing seemed to be out of the ordinary. Fuses are good.

Are there tests I can do?

OK...no spark.

Trace the wires from the kill switch and jump them at the harness end.

Still no spark?

Not likely the switch.

Lots of stuff to check, in no particular order:
   Ignition switch
   Kill switch
   Fuses (check them with a meter)
   Ignition modules (unlikely both are bad unless you did something to kill them)
   Coils (OK, you did that)
   Ignition pick ups (unlikely both are bad, but easy to check.  Unplug the two wire connection at each module.  95-105 ohms each. 
   All wiring between the components including the high tension leads.  The caps should read about 5K ohms.
   And yes, I might have missed something.

You do want a manual and wiring diagram if you don't have one.  https://haynes.com/en-us/motorcycle-manuals/ducati

Example:
   Find connector between ignition switch and main harness. 
   Disconnect
   On the switch side you should have continuity between terminals 3 and 6.

Another alternative is get the bike over to a good shop.  It took me the majority of my life to learn that option.

If you need a wiring diagram let me know. [thumbsup]

Ignition p/u's > V = 104 ohms, H = 103.4 ohms

Switch, terminals 3 and 6 = continuity. Put red probe to terminal 3 and black probe to terminal 6 = 0.3 @ 20 ohms selector on multimeter

Fuses = 12.85V both sides when power switched on and black probe connected to negative battery post. Battery = 12.85V.

Caps? Said to check, s/b 5K ohms...how do I check? Red probe to one side and black probe to other with power on?
> with selector @ 20 ohms, I got a zero "0" reading. Switch probes to opposite sides and same thing. On bottom of coils.

I have a wiring diagram and manual. Trying to avoid moto shop as they charge $100+/hour and I'm currently under employed. And I am a glutton for punishment and want to learn. :) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171018/a002656ba7bcb96667af10b148754982.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171018/7dca7541565c096a4bf1f567f44115bf.jpg)

The cap on the end of the spark plug wire that clips onto the spark plug wire.  It has a 5K ohm resistor.  Meter has to be on a scale higher than 5K ohms.  NEVER power on with an ohmmeter.  My next step would be to confirm power is getting to the ignition modules.  Unfortunately I don't remember the wiring on the modules, but the power does come directly from the kill switch.  Also make sure the ground is good at the modules.  One probe on the black wire at the module connector, one probe to negative on the battery.  Close to 0 ohms.  Is it possible to borrow a known good module?  Do be careful!  Under employed and ignition modules do not go well together. 

Am I correct in assuming everything but the ignition (warning lights etc.)  is working?

Maybe Speeddog could come to the red phone?

You rang?

Unlikely to have both modules die at once, but it can happen, most times brought on by running with battery terminals loose.

The wiring from the pickups is very light gauge, and I've seen a few of those broken, usually up at the connector to the modules.

The wiring terminals that slide over the spades on the coils can lose tension over time, and can slip off when doing the kind of work that's been done.

All of the above are most likely to only effect one cylinder, but still very much worth checking.

Confirm that the connector that powers the coils is secure and the terminals aren't pushing out when you mate the connectors.
It's the one on the right side of the airbox.

CA Cycleworks Exact Fit coils, resistance:  H = 56.9K and V = 57.1K (200K ohm set)

Ignition Control Units (ICU) resistance:  H = 0.5 and V = 0.4

Warning lights:  Headlight, turn signals, don't remember if "N" was previously lit. I have an Acewell speedo / tach.

Power to Coils was present.

Connections to coils were good, re-checked and crimped so they were tighter.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/ef8c655009f3c1d0258cce9c70ddc43a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/509bf3f227459cfcc259d33cd6adc039.jpg)

I wonder if the Kokusan boxes got blown out by a voltage spike? Be great to test with a borrowed set.

Not sure if I can find a set to temporarily borrow, but am checking.

If by chance they are buggered, I would get an Ignitech unit. The Ignitech will provide a much better advance curve  (an actual advance curve rather than an advance angle or step of the Kokusan) assisting to smooth low speed manners. They also have tunable features for rev limiter, shift light and advance curve.

I have one. :)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/f2c99a5a2a217f16d6ad7fb74293e01f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/c6038751f97f19612d1622abe44b69dd.jpg)

Tried w Ignitech? It should work as is.

 [thumbsup]

I have not, but thank you for answering my question I forgot to ask. :)

Will try it in the AM.

Bike has started with the Ignitech. Charging battery up for a run to see it is at.

Are there any suggestions for the Ignitech software via the laptop that I should be aware of?

Started up again...felt different running than before. Ran it around the block after warming it up with the enrichner (80* here).

Cut to 1/2 on the enrichner and took off down 2 blocks to a stop sign. Bike feels different, sluggish in 1st and 2nd. Turned right 1 block and came to a stop sign and bike died -  a small pop out of the exhaust.

Did the pop again going around the blocks again. The clutch sounds different, not in a good way compared to prior.

Nothing you did should affect the clutch.

How old is the gas?

Old gas, a bad regulator, loose connections, fueling issues and crap batteries can all make those symptoms. You may need to find an electrical fault that is taking out your ignition modules. Get that bike home.  Another voltage spike could cost you. You may have a concurrent issue clouding the diagnosis which is difficult and can trip up pros.

Regarding the Ignitech tuning, you need the software either on a supplied disc or downloaded from the website. You need a serial port to usb adaptor and driver software, or an old laptop or pc.

Making the connection is the tricky part, so seeing which channel option works is important. I just click on the auto channel/connect option.

A stock motor will run fine with the canned map. You can set your rev limit or shift light. It will be smoother as it has a curve rather then the el cheapo Kokusan step. You need a good map for high comp pistons.

Hopefully its just old gas and/or a crap battery. If you are using cheap ass Lithium batteries then dont do it again.  [leo] With Lithium batteries go top shelf or go home. A good AGM battery from Yuasa or top shelf Lithium will save you alot of grief.

For huge Ignitech details check bikeboy.org. Also instructions on Ignitech site.

+1. Often the clutch sounds strange from the irregular beat of a poor running motor.

One other thing. As it's 80 deg F use the enrichener/choke to get it going and back it off before it fouls the plugs, using the throttle for a fast idle until it warms up. Check your plugs for fouling as that can cause the symptoms too.
If it will only run on the street with the choke part engaged then you have a fuel restriction.

* Gas = is fairly new.
* Bad regulator? = Don't know, but will check.
* Connections = pretty confident as I've checked ones around from rear of gas tank forward to the headlight ~ 3x.
* Fueling issues = had previously gone through and thoroughly cleaned both carbs . Might need new jets as I've had the bike since '07 / '08 and don't recall them being replaced
* Electrical fault = previously, the ignition fuse blew multiple times. Since checking wires, fixing broken ones, no fuses have blown.

Any suggestions on what to check?
* Motor = stock. Open top of airbox with K&N filter and Sil Moto mufflers.
* Battery = Deka Sports Power ETX AGM. Also use this in my Harley. Approximately 2 years and 1 week old. I do periodic (e.g. weekly) charging if the battery.

I will check the Ignitech website as I did not get a CD.

Will also read bikeboy.org.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Sounds like those broken wires may have cut in and out possibly causing a voltage spike or shorted to the frame or both at different times. Howie and Speeddog will know more. Loose cables cutting in and out and harsh jump starting off a running pick up truck or car can fry components too.

With the bike running check voltage at battery is between 13.5-14.5 V with your meter. As you rev the bike the Voltage should rise to 14ish Volts from 13ish from idle. A bad reg could choke voltage starving the battery and ignition or let too much through cooking components.

OEM needle jets/emulsion tubes can wear oval in short time causing excessively rich mixtures in low throttle/rpm and lumpy running in as much as 5000 miles. Don't get the soft bronze oem needle jets, instead get the shiny nickel coated/hardened ones from Factory Pro. Iirc they were once hardened stainless, but I think they are coated now. If they were recently replaced then you are ok. If they are ovaled out, the combo of Ignitech advance curve, your excellent CCW Exactfit coils and new needle jets should help smooth things nicely.

If your airbox is open and jetting not adjusted to suit (jet kit), then the bike can run like crap from midrange up.

Let us know how you go [thumbsup]

A faulty ground is what generally cooks ignition modules. It can also cause charging issues.

There is a ground wire under the battery box, one at the R/R, and probably most important there is a heavy strap that runs from the cases to behind the r/h footpeg bracket.

There is also a ground wire from the ignition modules.  I don't know just where the ground is, but for that ground going from the connector at the module to battery negative is sufficient.  For the Nate is referring to voltage drop while cranking is the way to go.  Yes, you could just clean them, but you will not know if they were a problem.  Though robust (originals still working on the 750 I had with well over 80,000 miles on it), they are easily damaged by bad connections and ground.  The fact that both went south leads me to believe you have a problem in that area.

Did you check wiring around steering stem?
A well known place f causing shorts.

Grounds are good - part of connections that I've checked 3x. Bought new, heavy duty battery cables (OEM were in poor shape) and it grounds to engine case. Sanded and cleaned connection. Bike did not start initially when I moved back, fixed bike and was ready to roll. The heavy duty cables - first push on start button and it ran.

Where my issue was after bike had been running and I was doing some tuning after cleaning carbs - gas had gelled around jets.

Fixed those wires - no fuses popping after this fix.

Here are the 3 grounds:  R/R, under battery box and - battery post to engine case. Battery cables were replaced with new heavy duty cables. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/93ddaaf38ad401a18608b5398a58e13c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/7338f1912c181ddc96ed50e1843d766f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/47694cbfa6f42e5e3343dcb87808a64c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/68c6a74c066ba4335a0426724cab83a1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/26cc7025ebbba9aa8b28d0f7fe60e6f2.jpg)

Wiring around steering stem - fixed broken wires and shortened others and re-wrapped with electrical tape.

Plus wiring for ignition modules. Outside non-rubber sheathing looks bad near connections, but did not see any broken wires. Wire inside connector looks good. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/435a5fb526417166a1781bb31970fd38.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/8325dd5905ed58bb5a51ffe19bddd371.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/3feb82d31b9787cb04323425902add4e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/64147a859cd6bfa671a37784de49e2d3.jpg)

Battery was ~ 12.91V with the mutlimeter and was ~ 14.05V running.

Checked Ignitech map, showed base advance as 10*, vs. 6* I've seen in threads.

First map - better running, but smoke from right exhaust (looking from rear).

Anyone have a map for a 97 M900 with Sil Moto CF slipons and an open top airbox with K&N filter? :)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171022/78ce0216e2e013b8d5d3c0763f960e96.jpg)

Second map...ran better, no smoke from right exhaust and was good on short ride. Decel pop seems > it should. I probably need a new jet kit, etc. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171023/763d1b4ec8fece56f50606a50f0653fd.jpg)

Sorry, but all my maps are for high comp bikes. Other forum members should have some good maps for stock compression and your fuel.

With stock low comp you can try hitting max advance earlier maybe at 5-6k as long as the map is smooth and gradual down low. You can play with the timing under 5k to get that balance between smoothness and response. You can also run low comp timing a little steeper as long as it doesn't ping and tolerates your fuel choice.
I have a very gentle curve from 2-3k to remove snatchy response and chugging (helps especially with a light flywheel). A slightly leaner pilot jet helps too, but it depends on the nature of your local fuel.

Does it already have a jet kit? If not, it does need a "stage 2" Dynojet kit to be able to rev out with the open airbox.

Not sure on jet kit. Bike was modified when I bought it. Seemed to run well at the time, and had belts replaced and shims checked by AMS in Dallas.

Probably jetted ok if it can rev out and not choke with an open airbox. Worth checking on a rainy day.
The Ignitech is pretty cool eh! I like how you can measure rpm, dwell, voltage, etc in real time and see the map graphed out. Shift light and rev limiter can be set to your taste. Advance can be set according to fuel availability too as well as compression/cam/cam timing changes. Have you noticed how much smoother the bike is down low? The Kokousan has a crude angled step and some have said this contributes to lumpy, snatchy low rpm operation and I believe them.

It is a pretty neat unit, even though I don't understand all of the info. I like the advance map and how you can make changes - the RPM is nice to see and mine is a tad high right now.