So I put about 2k super fun miles on the '07 695 after its ~4yr hibernation. All is good. Right at 20k miles now, none of it wet. The little monster just keeps on giving.
Getting the aftermarket shock and forks serviced, so bike is fully supported. It's sorta winter, so no rush.
What occasional chassis maintenance should I be thinking about at this mileage/juncture? Lube rocker bearings and swingarm pivot? Leave it all alone?
BK
Now that the bike is up and shock is off, I would absolutely check, (replace?) and lube the rocker and swingarm bearings. Maybe clean the caliper pistons, check wheel bearings and my favorite: using a drill, rotate the rotor buttons while spraying brake cleaner on them.
New tires?
Also:
Clean/inspect/grease/adjust steering head bearings.
Clean/inspect/grease pushrod bearings.
Have the shock folks clean/inspect/grease shock rodend bearings.
Thanks, guys. Good suggestions.
- Tires. Brand new set of PP3 just before the unplanned hiatus in 2013. Was worried about their age, but they actually did alright. When it got a little damper and colder I started losing the rear AND the front. At that point I called the riding season and brought out the tools for project refresh. Definitely need new rubber!
- Brake caliper pistons. Yep, already gave them a good treatment with soap/water/toothbrush. 4-piston/pad SBK type. Found one of the eight pads severely worn, so something was not quite right. Will manipulate the pistons and see.
- Head bearings. Good call. I've had a set of speedymoto tapered ones in storage for ages. I vaguely recall some issues about the quality or the seals. Still good to install these days, or not worth the hassle?
- Shock joints. 8987 is on the way back from Penske now. I'll double-check those end bearings. Proper name is Heim joint and same would apply to the ride height adjuster? Forks are on the way to GP Suspension for some magic, but the fires might impact delivery today.
- Pushrod bearing. Clutch? Necessary for wet (APTC) clutch type??
- I'll need to find another way to suspend the bike. Currently have it on an under-triple Pitbull (front) and a steel rod through the swingarm piviot support by jackstands (rear).
Other minor side effects of the hiatus - helmet is aged out, rubber soles of my Sidis are rock hard, and I swear all my leather gear shrunk by 20%!
BK
By pushrod bearings I meant the ones on the rear suspension pushrod, commonly used for ride height adjusment, but OEM 695 is not adjustable.
The OEM ball bearings for the steering head are good parts, they should still be 100% serviceable at 20k miles.
The seals that came with the last set of Speedymoto bearings I got (quite a while ago) weren't a good fit IMO.
Quote from: BK_856er on December 06, 2017, 09:46:11 AM
................., and I swear all my leather gear shrunk by 20%!
BK
Yours too? :P
I'm pretty sure he put them in the closet.
The dark makes them shrink. ;D ;D
Anyone have the cliff notes for servicing the steering head bearings, or at least removing the top triple? Wheels, forks, tank are off and the front is suspended by the frame. Bar clamp is off. How much of the cluster/headlamp needs to come apart? The amount of cabling and harness packed behind there is a bit daunting and I don't want to make the job bigger or more fiddly than it needs to be.
BK
Just kept removing stuff until it became obvious what to do. 8)
Could feel some notchiness with everything off and before I removed the top triple. Loads of sticky clear brown grease inside, so evidently the factory got the memo to add more. No sign of water intrusion or dry bearings.
Races do have "polished" spots one per bearing, but nothing I can feel with a fingernail. Time for new bearings?
BK
*edit* Under 10x magnification I think I can see a slight indentation at some spots on the races. That combined with the (unloaded) notchiness I felt, and the work to get this far, translates to new bearings. Will use the tapered ones I have on hand with the Stu/Brad washer trick and OE seals.
How smooth should the rocker be with the shock and rod detached? I don't feel play/clunking in any direction, but there is absolutely some roughness or notchiness at certain points - probably the position where it spends most of its time. Not sure what normal is. Sorry for all the questions lately.
BK
Don't ever be sorry.
I hear what you're saying about the feel. It isn't a big deal, IMO.
Just me.
The bearings are available, as is the spacer they run on. If you need everything, maybe $80 in parts. Lube and reassemble as is it will probably be fine but you have it apart. Up to you.
Next stupid question on the rocker. From looking at the bike, the "special screw 77110151A" is removed from the right side with an 8mm hex. My very decent and relatively long 3/8" ratchet cried uncle and the bolt didn't budge. Go for the 1/2" breaker bar or an electric impact gun? I don't see a nut or another fastener on the left side, so the bolt simply gets loosened and is removed from the right side? I've looked at the part diagrams, but until I've had one apart and in my hands I'll be cautious.
The rocker is stamped with 37210032A, but that comes up invalid (not just superseded) and the diagrams give a different number. Presumably all the bits are interchangeable.
I was hoping to get back on the road quickly, but this maintenance project is definitely snowballing and dragging out. No local dealers even stock the head tube seals! Just as well - I want the suspension as good as it can be.
BK
There is a barrel nut on the left side, has a hex interior, IIRC it's an 8 mm hex.
Rockers are stamped with a number that identifies the raw forging.
That raw forging gets machined, and at that point it gets a different part number.
Rocker is off. Barrel nut on the left is a shallow 10mm. Mine was packed with crud and I didn't initially see that it was a hex, so Nick your info was gold. The bugger was super tight and took breaker bars to loosen. No corrosion and plenty of moly lube. Just tight.
I've decided to fully rebuild the rocker including new shaft and also use new bearings on the swingarm pivot.
BK
This thread needs pics!
Support method. Rocker parts with "wear" on spacer. Headtube upper cone (hard to photograph the wear spots). New rubber waiting to go on.
Daily dumb questions. Best way to remove rocker seals/bearings? Bel-Ray waterproof wheel bearing grease good for headtube, rocker, swingarm?
BK
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Happy 2018 and more pics while I wait for parts from Italy. [drink]
Freshly rebuilt shock and forks ready for install. Went in a new direction with the forks after running Matris for a while. Mucho respect for lightly powered lightweight bikes with well-sorted suspension.
BK
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Fancy. [thumbsup]
Slow progress waiting on parts and tools. BTW, Jon @ Ducati Seattle is still an awesome dealer source. [thumbsup]
Assembled new bearings/seals/shaft into the shock pivot and lubed with Redline CV2. Balljoint press I originally bought for a 4x4 driveshaft rebuild made short work of it. One of those tools that finds many uses. For removal just press them all out into a large receiving socket in one go. Takes a surprising amount of pressure. Below I'm installing/pressing in to 3.8mm with a 17mm socket (blue tape depth indicator) to allow room for the seal. Shaft now rotates smooth as silk. Old bearings were Torrington/Germany, new ones Koyo/Germany.
Needed to fab a few spacers for the rented Park headset toolkit. The wood piece has cutouts for the steering stops. Metal piece is a 1.5" pipe coupler. Races now nicely seated. Waiting on a piece of suitably sized tubing to drive on the steering stem bearing, I guess the kit is for older Ducati. Using tapered bearings, so 1mm spacer between the bearing and the Ducati seal both top and bottom. Again, Redline CV2 grease.
BK
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Rear linkage pushrod bearings. In my case, aftermarket adjustable ride height rod with beefy Aurora Teflon-lined rod-end bearings. Cleaned 'em up and found one to have a bit of play with pushing and pulling. Bought new ends from Aurora at $35/ea after checking with the original manufacturer for type and pn. New buggers are TIGHT as in need to practically put them in a vice to get any movement. This seems to be the opposite of what's needed for this application, right?. Stiction, harshness and all that. MFG says no lube allowed on Teflon lined units. I'm sure they'll loosen up over time, but hmmm maybe time for a new direction here to chase that super suspension dream...
BK
Front end is done and back on the ground. I used the "by hand" method to set the bearing preload. Is there a torque value to use for tapered bearings?
Now onto the swingarm. The rod came out very easily. No corrosion. Runout is good. Some wear from the bearings - see below. I can sort of feel it with a fingernail. Run it or replace? I bought the bearings and seals, but I'm seriously disinclined to mess with the case after experiencing the pressures needed for the shock rocker.
BK
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Swingarm float. Mine came with the two 1.8mm washers and two 0.2mm shims on the right.
Using the official Ducati measuring method I get 0.610mm (1.8mm washer on each side, hold the swingarm up to the engine, push to the right and measure gap at the right side - easier said than done!). Evidently I need at least one more 0.2mm shim and it goes on the left.
Why not use the pivot shaft partially installed to help hold the swingarm coaxial to the through-holes? Holding it up by hand is super fiddly even with helping hands.
Is the float also measurable with the wheel installed?
I'll get extra shims just in case, but I want to do this as exactly as I can since it seems to be important. I've heard 0.05mm is a good target float.
BK
I found the weight of my ancient Brembo wheel too awkward. I checked with the motor in an engine stand on each occasion.
Great work, real tidy and precise with top notch components. Looking forward to see how she goes.
"Run it or replace?"
Is the shaft identical at both ends (I don`t remember)? If so, just flip it after wetsanding carefully.
"I've heard 0.05mm is a good target float."
Me too, as small as possible without binding. Profanity is involved... [evil]
Thanks for the info, guys.
Yes, the shaft is symmetrical. Careful wet-sanding could be a good idea. However, I don't know how deeply the surface is hardened. I decided to get a new shaft, since I seem to be going all out everywhere else. I'll sleep easier.
Good to know about the profanity associated with shimming the swingarm to a small value. I'll set my expectations accordingly, which is always half the battle for me. When I started all this I was going to just slap on the forks and shock and get back on the road same day...
BK
Installed the new swingarm shaft today and shimmed the float to a nice small value <0.1mm. Bearings and seals looked alright so I left them alone. Job was way easier with the exhaust and rearsets out of the way!
The swingarm shaft bolts get 43Nm (steel swingarm) and Grease C. As far as I can tell the only other fasteners that call for this particular grease are the head bolts. What's a commonly available alternative? Typical moly lube not a good idea??
BK
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DMF used to be the place to go for good technical info and exchange. It seems times have changed since I've been away. I suppose most folks are on modern and mechanic-serviced bikes and ridership in general is way down. I'll use my Bel-Ray waterproof grease on the swingarm bolts.
BK
The Bel Ray waterproof should be fine. Any grease good for automotive wheel bearings will work too.
Thanks for all the good info + Bel Ray confirmation! Reflecting back to the first few replies, I found little issues with ALL the listed items. Glad that I followed the advice and took the effort/time/$$ to set everything right vs. just slap the rebuilt forks/shocks back on and go. Rear linkage now feels very smooth. I was blaming old tires, but I'm thinking now that the "rear end stepping out" I was starting to experience was due in part to the excess swingarm pivot float and ratchety rear linkage. With some luck I'll have it on tires tomorrow. Still need a few more sessions before it's ready to ride.
BK
What you now have is what, IMO, Ducati should have built. A small engine high spec bike! On second thought yours is better than the factory would have built.
Did you lube the shaft bearings while it was apart?
Quote from: ducpainter on February 11, 2018, 04:51:57 AM
Did you lube the shaft bearings while it was apart?
Absolutely. I first cleaned out the old liquidy grease from the swingarm bearings. Made sure the clean needles looked OK and rolled smoothly with fingers and also the new ungreased shaft. Contemplated replacing the outer seals and decided to leave well enough alone. Re-packed all 4 bearings with Redline CV2 grease and really worked it into the cages with a finger and also globbed on a heavy coating. Lubed the shaft with the same. Felt really smooth afterwards. Hopefully good for another 20k!
BK
Quote from: BK_856er on February 11, 2018, 05:49:37 PM
Absolutely. I first cleaned out the old liquidy grease from the swingarm bearings. Made sure the clean needles looked OK and rolled smoothly with fingers and also the new ungreased shaft. Contemplated replacing the outer seals and decided to leave well enough alone. Re-packed all 4 bearings with Redline CV2 grease and really worked it into the cages with a finger and also globbed on a heavy coating. Lubed the shaft with the same. Felt really smooth afterwards. Hopefully good for another 20k!
BK
Pretty much any synthetic grease is better than what they used at the factory. [thumbsup]
As long as you keep a pressure washer away from those seals they'll do their job. Even new ones won't stop one of those.
All buttoned up and adjusted - mission accomplished.
Thanks for all the great input along the way! [beer]
BK
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[thumbsup] [thumbsup]
Nicely done Sir! ðŸ'ðŸ»
I had some delays getting back on the road, but oh my was all the work worth it! Everything is just about perfect. So nice to have awesome weather, awesome roads and a sorted-out machine.
BK
8) [thumbsup]
Had the local guru setup my suspension yesterday (vs. chasing my tail, which is its own kind of fun, but a good starting baseline is gold).
On first glance from 10ft away he didn't like my geometry and proceeded to lower the rear ride height back to stock and raise the front about 10mm. Said the way I had it probably tipped in great, but awkwardly transitioned to a lean and wouldn't turn well until completely off the brakes. Come to think of it - yes! He said my setup was how everyone did it in 2002 (old school). Sport tire sizing and thinking are different now he says. I'm a believer after today's road test on my usual 80mile twisty circuit. Moral is don't ignore your chassis geometry and don't be afraid to try something new!
BK